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Just on the news..goverment is stealing 12k from the average private pension....thought you guys where bulletproof???? :lol:

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It's a bit like state pensions now being linked to wages (which should go down in real times) rather than CPI or RPI (which should go up). It looks like a concession but current and future pensioners have been had with this one.

I wonder how long it will take for people to realise that the pension ponzi is turning into a pipe dream now that more people are about to draw on it.

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Just on the news..goverment is stealing 12k from the average private pension....thought you guys where bulletproof???? :lol:

So the winners are those who've not saved a bean? :)

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Oh dear. Well thats what you get for calling for public sector pensions to be cut, you can hardly complain when employers cut your own.

I think the term is to be hoisted by your own petard.

Plan to change private pension inflation link

It is particularly bad news for people with dormant pensions which would normally increase in line with RPI (although the terms of index linking in private occupational schemes do vary and many are capped at quite low percentages).

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Just makes the attack on public sector pensions easier to sell.

Lies and spin.

It is not an equalisation of misery because the r5ich will be teflon free of such constraints.

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But now its not fair and public sector pensions must be cut.

Then we have to cut private sector pensions again.

Then cut public sector pensions again.

Where will it all end.

I know, nobody gets a pension, thats fair.

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But now its not fair and public sector pensions must be cut.

Then we have to cut private sector pensions again.

Then cut public sector pensions again.

Where will it all end.

I know, nobody gets a pension, thats fair.

fairness is basically whats affordable, you arent a four year old, if somebody makes an impossible promise to you the sooner you realise that its not gonna happen the better. Anyone with any sense who is able to would take the smart move if they are made redundant over the coming years of removing the accrued pension into a personal pot so it doesnt get deferred. Their pension accrued will be completely lost to high inflation at some point in this cycle due to the capping let alone this indexation change.

For the very smart they already would have seen this coming and removed accrued pension and taken it tax free via Qrops offshore which im pretty sure was only introduced because the relevant people making the decisions were smart enough to see this event developing years ago and for that im thankful

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

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fairness is basically whats affordable, you arent a four year old, if somebody makes an impossible promise to you the sooner you realise that its not gonna happen the better. Anyone with any sense who is able to would take the smart move if they are made redundant over the coming years of removing the accrued pension so it doesnt get deferred. Their pension accrued will be completely lost to high inflation at some point in this cycle due to the capping let alone this indexation change.

For the very smart they already would have seen this coming and removed accrued pension and taken it tax free via Qrops offshore which im pretty sure was only introduced because the relevant people making the decisions were smart enough to see this event developing years ago and for that im thankful

So a pension after a lifetime of work is now an impossible promise.

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So a pension after a lifetime of work is now an impossible promise.

Impossible as long as you expect to save less than 30% of your wages and get a full pension in return.

The existing system has all the characteristics of a ponzi scheme and was going to fail sooner or later.

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So a pension after a lifetime of work is now an impossible promise.

at the levels that have been promised, of course it is

Maybe if the tories hadnt effectively penalized companies through taxation for not taking pension holidays in the 90s

and maybe if Labour hadnt continually stolen from them in the last 15 years

and maybe if uk citizens hadnt become so state dependant and certain of being provided for in the future by the state over time that they stopped having enough kids.

Maybe just maybe they may have been affordable at a decent level but thats what you get for about 40 years of complete and utter fckwittery running your country

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

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Guest sillybear2

It doesn't matter whether the liabilities are on the public or private balance sheets (most of the latter will land on the former, eventually), whether the schemes are funded or unfunded, or if the assets are in the form of gilts, property, equities or commodities, it all amounts to the same thing: a claim on future output, and collectively these rent seeking claims on the rest of the economy are unrealistic.

It all comes down to the number of people retired and the size of their entitlements v. the size of the working population, and in the EU the dependency ratio will drop from about four to under two over the next 50 years or so.

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Guest sillybear2

Just on the news..goverment is stealing 12k from the average private pension....thought you guys where bulletproof???? :lol:

The thing is geoffk that most of these schemes are closed to new members anyway, or people have been stopped from accruing new benefits, only about 11% of the private sector workforce are still in final salary schemes. Horse, door, bolted.

We've always said on here that these bull$hit promises can never be met in real output, and they'll eventually go down the Argentinian route by rigging the indexing, printing money and diluting the real value of these claims. Have fun watching them set the stage for exactly this.

This isn't about public v. private, it's about demographics, and the impossibility of premising your economic model and future promises on unending compounding growth.

Why are the Government interfering in Private Pensions?

Somebody should have asked Brown that in '97. :D

Edited by sillybear2

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Looks like I should have opted out of the pension and bought a house 5 years ago. The pension contributions would have covered the difference between the rent and a mortgage.

Seems anybody who made a rational informed choice is shafted

you live and you learn

:(

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Oh dear. Well thats what you get for calling for public sector pensions to be cut, you can hardly complain when employers cut your own.

I think the term is to be hoisted by your own petard.

Plan to change private pension inflation link

Private pensions have been raided for over a decade by the taxman; they are far worse value than public sector. I sometimes wonder if public servants know they are born.

I cashed mine in last year, even though I got about half what I paid into it.

As the RPI is indirectly related to house prices, which are set to go down, decoupling pensions from that may actually prevent pensions being dragged down so much, in the short term.

Anyway, unless you have a sound investment outside the clutches of the government, you can kiss goodbye to a comfortable retirement. We're all in this mess together, thanks to that last government's mismanagement of the economy.

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So a pension after a lifetime of work is now an impossible promise.

Perhaps if the economy had been managed a little more prudently and with proper bank regulation over the past 13 years or so, it wouldn't be such a challenge.

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Just on the news..goverment is stealing 12k from the average private pension....thought you guys where bulletproof???? :lol:

No ordinary person is bulletproof, so I wouldn't laugh too loud... the worst is yet to come.

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Guest sillybear2

No ordinary person is bulletproof, so I wouldn't laugh too loud... the worst is yet to come.

Bullets might be bulletproof, you could use them to obtain baked beans and gold. ;)

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As the RPI is indirectly related to house prices, which are set to go down, decoupling pensions from that may actually prevent pensions being dragged down so much, in the short term.

RPI doesn't include housing costs yet, it includes mortgage payments, and is therefor related to interest rates NOT house prices.

That's why RPI has stay so low for the last couple of years despite the spiraling cost of living... interest rates have been dropping, pushing down everyone mortgage payments.

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It doesn't matter whether the liabilities are on the public or private balance sheets (most of the latter will land on the former, eventually), whether the schemes are funded or unfunded, or if the assets are in the form of gilts, property, equities or commodities, it all amounts to the same thing: a claim on future output, and collectively these rent seeking claims on the rest of the economy are unrealistic.

You don't really believe that do you? I know you have some grand abstract idea of how we're all doomed because of demographics but what exactly do you mean by "unrealistic"? What do you think will actually happen? How would you position yourself so that you avoid the fate of the less intelligent masses? Or maybe you're keeping it all a secret from the rest of us so that you alone emerge unscathed.

I think there is a huge difference between funded and unfunded and how those funds are invested. With one there is ring-fenced money safely set aside (unless you actually believe that the gov't will confiscate all private savings one day) and with the other there is only a promise. If demographics doom us to deflation and the funded pension is invested appropriately then it will still have purchasing power come retirement time. If there's massive printing followed by massive inflation then the funded pension will still be fine (again, as long as it's invested accordingly). As long as there is a functioning currency system and functioning investment markets I really don't see how all funded pensions could be doomed. Do you really think the boomer effect is enough to send us to WW3 or financial armageddon? That's a lot of influence to give to one population cohort of one region of the world.

On an aggregate level, in the UK and a lot of the rest of the West, I agree that something has to give because things cannot carry on as they have been, but that doesn't mean we're all screwed. Maybe the "something" that gives will be unfunded promises and people with actual money set aside will survive.

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  • 150 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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