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areweinsane

Can We Not Issue Our Own Money At 0% Interest?

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Hi everyone...

I'm new on here, and haven't had a chance to look through all of the past topics. However, it's clear to everyone that our country is in a "supposed" financial mess. I say "supposed" because at the end of the day, it's just money... and even plainer than that... it's just digits on a computer screen these days!

So: we "aparently" are in debt as a nation to the tune of billions of pounds... but who are we in debt to? The BOE, IMF, World Bank etc.... ??? What I'm saying is this... why the heck have we allowed our own country to be in debt, and not just owe money, but a ton of interest too... which will obviously only benefit one place: the banks themselves!

Look at all the taxes we are all subjected to each and every year, a list which is growing and growing each year, especially with the new carbon taxes that are hitting everything. If you took every single £ of taxes that the government takes off of us each year, and then used the majority of it to pay for our public services like it is supposed to (instead of paying back big loans + a ton of interest)... then surely we'd be living in a country where not one person is unemployed, our public services would be the best in the world; we'd have the best medical services, the best schools, the best police, the best fire services, and could then easily afford to take care of the needy like the young, sick / disabled and elderly.... not to mention the hundreds and thousands of poor people that come back from wars needing extra help and support!

The issue here is not that we are in debt.... but that we owe that debt to a third party (i.e. the banks!). What is stopping our government turning around and saying: right, we are now going control and issue our own money; we will create our own money for our own public services, and pay our own people to carry out everything that is needed. You can never be in debt to yourself, so why should a country be in debt to itself.... why should it ever need to borrow... why does it not create it's own money at 0% interest to itself???

My answer to this is that every single country allows a private bank to control it's money supply... whether that's the BOE & Fed Reserve (both PRIVATE banks), IMF, World Bank etc etc.... and that whoever controls the money, has all the power! Our country is guided not by the government and the Prime Minister, but by the people that control the issuance of our money: the bankers! They created a very clever and cunning plan to take control of every country, by controlling their money supply; and you can't fault them for that... but it's at the expense of the quality of life for every single person on this planet... The world is controlled by a very small amount of people indeed, yet they have the majority of it's wealth. We have enough resources on this planet to ensure that not one single person goes without food or shelter, that not one single town or country is in poverty, that everyone can be looked after and live a happy life. Money = Power = Greed! Things may never change, but the big issue is that the general public don't even know what really goes on amongst the "powers that be", or what really happens to all the money that get's taken away from them as taxes. They all complain that things are bad, but have no idea how to fix it..... and that's how it's been designed to be... no one can rise up and make a stand, because they have no clue about where the problems really lie!

I may be wrong, and this is just my opinion... but I hate seeing on the news that our country is in a financial mess, with the blame being placed on each of us + previous governments. All governments are the same, and will never change anything unless they take control of their own currency... if our government really did pull the strings, they could simply cancel + wipe out all debt... so obviously they aren't in control at all!

Thank you for taking the time to read my opinions.... and I look forward to any comments you may have....

***This is OUR country, why should WE let ourselves suffer? We should look after each other; the world is a mess, and only WE can change things... not a handful of government officers and ministers! Take responsibility for once; if you don't like something, stand up and say so... otherwise we're all nothing more than sheep or cattle... waiting in line for the next blow to be delivered to us!

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What is stopping our government turning around and saying: right, we are now going control and issue our own money;

Our owners. :ph34r:

WE ARE OWNED by our OWNERS.

We cannot break free - look what happened to JFK.

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and that whoever controls the money, has all the power!

"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild, 1790

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I may be wrong.....

You are.

Your entire thesis is based on little more than internet conspiracy theory and banter, but the individual facts you presented are incorrect too. The BofE isn't a private bank, it was nationalised in 1946.

Edited by Chef

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What is stopping our government turning around and saying: right, we are now going control and issue our own money;

Our owners. :ph34r:

WE ARE OWNED by our OWNERS.

We cannot break free - look what happened to JFK.

I rubbed my hands with laughter at Iceland and than Greece at their profligacy/stupidity. Thinking this was just a step or sign to a UK HPC,now,well

now, I pray those people tell "big money" xxxxoff take your losses, or let's go, we'll give you a fight, one you xxxx politicians and your "banker" friends will never forget and neither will our children for a thousand years.

It boils down to this [ I think] these dirty scheming "Bankers" with their bought off cronies have managed to create a chance for themselves, of making global slaves of us all. [ relentless mxxxxxfxxxxrs]

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Yes, but do other people trust your new money? Without trust your money has no value/quickly diminishing value. Zimbabwe issued its own money, and spent it, the rest of the world didn't trust it and it devalued (hyperinflation), and you get high inflation (which can be combated by high interest rates). With 0% IR, and lots of printed money your going to be a clone of Zimbabwe, (which isn't such a bad thing for the people in charge/printing the money). You the issuer will be rich, the people using your money will be poor.

Money value == Trust you wont print more when feel like it

Edited by AteMoose

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Um we do issue our own currency, it's called sterling and is issued by the BoE, a publicly owned bank. So lets take your argument along a little, lets say HMG say right thats it, we aren't going to honour our debts (a very real default) or that we will just print up enough sterling to cover them (a technical default). Remember the people, banks, hedge funds, pension funds, private individuals have lent money with a very real value. You have either just stolen it or paid them back in monopoly money which is now worthless with all the pounds floating about. So everyone and his aunt is trying to sell this worthless crap driving sterling off a cliff. Import prices rise and export prices fall, joe bloggs pay gets cut because he's been made unemployed by his firm which went bust because it was not competetive on the world stage and he goes to buy food, a fair old whack of which is imported from abroad and the prices have shot up, all he can muster is a slice of bread for a week. O wait he can go and spend is 1 trillion pound sterling note on that. Hello Zimbabwe, Argentina, Weimar...

Try reading the economics forum a bit before posting like that.

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What's wrong with people saying "Nah, I don't want a loan". That's the problem we have. People are too keen on credit, though the banks do misrepresent savings and credit somewhat.

Then hoo waad ah buy mee scooter?

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Guest spp

I think you need to spend some time in a dark room with Bill Still.

“Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money.” – Sir Josiah Stamp

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Guest sillybear2

Money is already almost free, with negative real rates once QE is accounted for, banks can borrow almost unlimited amounts from the BoE at 0.5% but there's always going to a spread because of the risk premium.

If I have £1000 why deposit (lend) it to a bank, so it can be further loaned on, if I'm only getting 0% and they might go bust, why not just leave it under the mattress? I guess that's why they're so keen on electronic currencies, so people are locked into the matrix.

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Um we do issue our own currency, it's called sterling and is issued by the BoE, a publicly owned bank. So lets take your argument along a little, lets say HMG say right thats it, we aren't going to honour our debts (a very real default) or that we will just print up enough sterling to cover them (a technical default). Remember the people, banks, hedge funds, pension funds, private individuals have lent money with a very real value. You have either just stolen it or paid them back in monopoly money which is now worthless with all the pounds floating about. So everyone and his aunt is trying to sell this worthless crap driving sterling off a cliff. Import prices rise and export prices fall, joe bloggs pay gets cut because he's been made unemployed by his firm which went bust because it was not competetive on the world stage and he goes to buy food, a fair old whack of which is imported from abroad and the prices have shot up, all he can muster is a slice of bread for a week. O wait he can go and spend is 1 trillion pound sterling note on that. Hello Zimbabwe, Argentina, Weimar...

Try reading the economics forum a bit before posting like that.

You seem to have forgotten that the vast majority of 'money' in just about any economy is bank credit. Where do you think all the problems regarding deflation pressure are coming from?

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I think you need to spend some time in a dark room with Bill Still.

“Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money.” – Sir Josiah Stamp

This was done to death here many moons ago. I suggest the original poster clink the link below.

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<snip>

Try reading the economics forum a bit before posting like that.

As an established poster on here may I say that this is unpardonably rude to a new member.

Try getting some manners a bit before posting again.

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As an established poster on here may I say that this is unpardonably rude to a new member.

Try getting some manners a bit before posting again.

The left do not have a meter to register things like 'rude' or 'reason'.

We should not hate them for it. It just isn't there.

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Hi everyone...

I'm new on here, and haven't had a chance to look through all of the past topics. However, it's clear to everyone that our country is in a "supposed" financial mess. I say "supposed" because at the end of the day, it's just money... and even plainer than that... it's just digits on a computer screen these days!

So: we "aparently" are in debt as a nation to the tune of billions of pounds... but who are we in debt to? The BOE, IMF, World Bank etc.... ??? What I'm saying is this... why the heck have we allowed our own country to be in debt, and not just owe money, but a ton of interest too... which will obviously only benefit one place: the banks themselves!

Welcome to the forum. A few points to consider:

1. Who is the national debt owed to? It's owed to holders of government debt - gilts. Many of these are institutional investors, such as pension funds, and wealthy individuals, who need somewhere to park their wealth. If the government refuses to pay back this debt, it is defaulting on payment to individuals, some (many, IIRC) of whom will be UK citizens.

2. If the government doesn't borrow what it can't raise in taxes, there would be no national debt in the first place. Borrowing more and more for decades, then complaining there is a large debt, is rather daft, really. Governments should be forced (by law and the will of the people) to live within their means and only spend what they tax - it would be far more honest and easier to elect the government you prefer too, whether high or low taxes and spending.

3. What is base money? When we talk about fiat, we're talking about what was the £60bn or so (IIRC). QE has muddied the waters, by many saying that this won't be repaid (I would agree) and that it has essentially swelled this figure to over £220bn. But what was backing that original £60bn? Originally, it would have been gold, but that backing has long been removed - it is now just pure fiat. We do still have gold reserves though, although I'm unsure how much this gives value to the fiat - IMO, it now has value, purely because it is in demand to pay for taxes.

4. Banks don't create money, they extend credit. Essentially, they're lending out a proportion of your money, along with everyone else's, while promising that you can access all of this money at any time. Without government backing (deposit guarantees, limited liability, lender of last resort etc), this is prone to bank runs, as occasional panics call the banks' bluff. Therefore, we ended up with government backing to prevent such panics, but now we have a problem with banks expecting to be bailed out - the 'too big to fails' - which means that the governments have to print up any money promised by the bankers, should they be unable to deliver it themselves. If the government doesn't print up the money, we risk falling into a credit deflation, people losing their savings, jobs etc, so the governments pony up the money.

5. Because of 4, people often say that the banks can control inflation, then blackmail the government to prevent deflation. I would agree and it's this cycle which needs to be broken. The best way is to switch to a full reserve banking system, such as Limited Purpose Banking (see sig), where people choose their own investments, along with their exposure to risk. No bank runs can occur and a liquid mutual fund market would reduce problems with maturity mismatching on timed savings.

6. In addition to 5, the government needs to stop borrowing, which is regressive as it feeds the wealthy with interest paid for by today's tax payers. Government borrowing is also dishonest, as unfunded spending can ensue, with subsequent governments being left to balance the books and pay down this debt (sound familiar?). Taxing in order to spend alone, in all but extreme circumstances, would go a long way to righting the system.

How to get from here to there? You enforce timed savings (preferably in mutual funds, like in LPB) for all but a proportion of on demand deposits. Dividing up bank reserves equally per capita (up to the amount on deposit) for on demand accounts would probably give most average people full reserve access to their money*. Money saved beyond this amount would be placed into timed savings accounts (where you don't have instant access), from choices presented to the saver at the time. As bank reserves would be unchanged, with the same amount on loan now being matched by timed savings (preferably, risk bearing, as in LPB), net credit would remain the same, but a proportion beyond instant access savings would be inaccessible (and at risk, ideally**). Everyone would then know where they stand and no one would be promised money which may not be accessible.

The national debt should then be gradually repaid, as anything else would arguably be dishonest/unfair. Defaulting on debt, even if you think the debt shouldn't have been run up, is still a default and some people with lose out. Perhaps a partial default in the aim of 'fairness' would be bargained for, but it is a very subjective solution.

In summary, there is a better way of solving the problem of distributing capital, which does not reward the bankers, nor risk taxpayer money. There just needs to be the political will to understand and attend to the problem, rather than continue on with the same flawed system.

* 220,000,000,000÷60,000,000 (total fiat ÷ population) => rough fag packet amount of up to about £4k per capita for on demand deposits.

** All investments carry risk and should be reflected on the individual making the investment - or interest bearing savings.

Edited by Traktion

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it's just money... and even plainer than that... it's just digits on a computer screen these days!

You can never be in debt to yourself, so why should a country be in debt to itself.... why should it ever need to borrow... why does it not create it's own money at 0% interest to itself???

You are Injin and I claim my 5 quid!

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You mean like Germany did back in the 1930s?

Yeah worked for them , the bankstaz turned on them pretty quick smart.

Similar to JFK wanting a return to Government issued silver certificates shortly before he was killed.

SECTION 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 9, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended (a) By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j):

'(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (B) of section 43 of the Act of May 12, 1933, as amended (31 U.S.C. 821(B)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of an outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denominations of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption,' and (B) By revoking subparagraphs (B) and © of paragraph 2 thereof.

SECTION 2. The amendments made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made.

John F. Kennedy, THE WHITE HOUSE, June 4, 1963.

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As an established poster on here may I say that this is unpardonably rude to a new member.

Try getting some manners a bit before posting again.

My apologies to the OP, reading it back it does seem rather rude though that was not my intention, merely to point the poster to the economics forum.

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My apologies to the OP, reading it back it does seem rather rude though that was not my intention, merely to point the poster to the economics forum.

Wow. A graceful apology; is this a first for an internet forum?

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Money is already almost free, with negative real rates once QE is accounted for, banks can borrow almost unlimited amounts from the BoE at 0.5% but there's always going to a spread because of the risk premium.

If I have £1000 why deposit (lend) it to a bank, so it can be further loaned on, if I'm only getting 0% and they might go bust, why not just leave it under the mattress? I guess that's why they're so keen on electronic currencies, so people are locked into the matrix.

I don't think it all being electronic has changed that much these days. They're mainly keen on it because it leaves them not having to do anything but still take as long to do it and / or charge the same for doing it.

The main reason for putting money in the bank is if you feel it's less likely to go missing than if you keep it under the bed (i.e. judge which set of crooks pose the least risk to you).

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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