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The Masked Tulip

In Ireland, A Picture Of The High Cost Of Austerity

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/business/global/29austerity.html?_r=2&hp

Signs of the decline encrust Dublin’s streets. Boisterous crowds still mash onto the cobbles of Temple Bar. Yet farther out, “To Let” posters obscure the hollowed shells of once-vibrant cafes and clothing shops.

Fifteen minutes north of the city center, hulks of empty buildings form stark symbols of why Ireland must now hunker down. At Elm Park, a soaring industrial and residential complex, 700 employees of the German insurer Allianz are the lone occupants of a space designed for thousands.

In the impoverished Ballymun neighborhood, developers began razing slums to make way for new low-income housing. Halfway through the project, the financing dried up, leaving some residents to languish in graffiti-covered concrete skeletons. “Welcome to Hell,” read one of the tamest messages.

Now the government is debating whether to demolish developments it inherited from the banks it nationalized, and restore them to green pasture.

A bitter sense of regret punctuates chatter at any Irish bar, where the topic often turns to vilified bankers and politicians, or the latest jobless figures.

While no one is marching in the streets, the Irish do have a tipping point: Prime Minister Cowen, whose popularity has plummeted, agreed last week not to cut public wages again in the next budget. Many voters, having experienced the pain of austerity, are expected to express their anger in the 2012 elections.

“Then,” said Paul Sweeney, economic adviser to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, “the Irish for once are going to have their revenge served cold.”

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/business/global/29austerity.html?_r=2&hp

Signs of the decline encrust Dublin’s^H^H^H^HLondons streets. Boisterous crowds still mash onto the cobbles of

Temple Bar^H^H^H^HCovent Garden. Yet farther out, “To Let” posters obscure the hollowed shells of once-vibrant cafes and clothing shops.

Our colleagues at thepropertypin have been - like us - crying in the wilderness sinec 2003 :)

Also

http://ghostestates.com/main.php?g2_view=map.ShowMap

Edited by dryrot

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Guest sillybear2

I think we should offer a job lot price.

Use your lucky charms.

I guess they belong to NAMA, they'll demolish them if it means they can keep their mark-to-mythology on the rest of their deeply underwater loan book.

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Hmmm ... They're knocking down their houses over there, then? ;)

Ireland is one of the few places where the public were even dumber and more property crazy than Britain, and that's saying something.

Houses were already looking overpriced around the year 2000 but at least it was off the back of a genuine spurt of economic growth. After that, just when it looked like prices might fall back to reasonable levels came along the credit boom along with super cheap rates courtesy of Euro membership and the need to stimulate the German economy and things got really silly. Not helped of course by some of the most corrupt politicians in the Western World.

Now they are paying the price - the country is likely to be impoverished for decades when it could have been a success story.

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2007-11-02

Johnathan Davis bbc ulster, arguing Northern Ireland house prices will fall 50% in the next 4-6 years, that was a scary figure back then!

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/media/jonathan-davis-bbculster-2007-11-02.mp3

A property located in Northern Ireland which was valued at £200000 in Q4 of 2007, would be worth approximately £114624 in Q2 of 2010.

This is equivalent to a change of -42.69%.

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/Default.asp?calculate=true

Edited by Northwest Smith

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Guest sillybear2

I talk to alot of Irish people. Have yet to meet one who is suffering the pain described in the media. Strange.

I guess none of them are tax payers, or are completely unaware of the liabilities that have been dumped on their children. When you have a cabal of bankers and property developers controlling a government then everyone suffers, even the virtuous.

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This story also has the typical undercurrent of apparent surprise that austerity measures make things more austere ...

Reading the piece, it seems that whoever wrote it seems to think that policies should have a more or less immediate effect -

Nearly two years ago, an economic collapse forced Ireland to cut public spending and raise taxes, the type of austerity measures that financial markets are now pressing on most advanced industrial nations.

..

Rather than being rewarded for its actions, though, Ireland is being penalized. Its downturn has certainly been sharper than if the government had spent more to keep people working. Lacking stimulus money, the Irish economy shrank 7.1 percent last year and remains in recession.

Possibly the biggest global financial crisis ever, certainly the biggest bubble in the history of the Irish state bursts and nearly two whole years later things still aren't fixed and hunky dory again? What are these bumbling politicians doing? :rolleyes:

Clearly we just need to keep borrowing and dumping the money into the economy and all will be well. The sad thing is that even two years into this unfolding disaster there seems to be an inability of people to comprehend that there's a serious problem here which will inflict pain and require people to show some fortitude and sacrifice to get through.

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This story also has the typical undercurrent of apparent surprise that austerity measures make things more austere ...

Reading the piece, it seems that whoever wrote it seems to think that policies should have a more or less immediate effect -

Possibly the biggest global financial crisis ever, certainly the biggest bubble in the history of the Irish state bursts and nearly two whole years later things still aren't fixed and hunky dory again? What are these bumbling politicians doing? :rolleyes:

Clearly we just need to keep borrowing and dumping the money into the economy and all will be well. The sad thing is that even two years into this unfolding disaster there seems to be an inability of people to comprehend that there's a serious problem here which will inflict pain and require people to show some fortitude and sacrifice to get through.

Nope they just want to swill some more money down the same pan. Click through this vid it tells you all you need to know about the thought process.

It seems to be utterly irrelevent to any of them that the whole real economy has gone down the chute as a result and most of it shipped offshore. Just print more money to save their own skins.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=146689

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I talk to alot of Irish people. Have yet to meet one who is suffering the pain described in the media. Strange.

I live and work here, and neither have I.

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thanks for that vid.hardly makes you wanna pcik up the phone and buy the irish recovery does it,let alone the baking stocks.

People will always need bread.

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I live and work here, and neither have I.

same, things are going quite well for me (stayed out of the maddness and now picked up nice house and land in cash) and friends

now if only i could somehow avoid paying for the mistakes of others via more taxes ;) hmm....

tho people who are deep in debt are suffering (and rightly so)

so are the banking and construction sectors (that got too anyways) and any other crap service jobs that sprung up

and anyone else who speculated on the bubble

as i said before this recession is exactly what the country needed to knock some sense into alot of people

UK is long overdue a proper housepricecrash :P

Edited by yelims

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Guest sillybear2

same, things are going quite well for me (stayed out of the maddness and now picked up nice house and land in cash) and friends

tho people who are deep in debt are suffering (and rightly so)

so are the banking and construction sectors (that got too anyways) and any other crap service jobs that sprung up

and anyone else who speculated on the bubble

Hardly :-

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/06/02/nama-just-a-bailout-for-the-professional-classes

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/07/05/prolonging-our-debt-agony

Edited by sillybear2

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mcwilliams is a populist joker ill take what he says with a grain of salt, his main objective is to self whoor himself and line own pockets by selling books to stupid people

as i said people are suffering but only the ones who got themselves into alot of debt or were involved or dependant on unsustainable construction, and they ******ing deserve to ive no remorse in saying it

despite the "biggest recession" in history the welfare here is still 3-4x the UK thanks to idiots willing to loan money to this bankrupt country

as i said my main concern is avoiding more taxation now so not to be paying for the mistakes of others and shite like NAMA

oh and it still makes more sense to stay on welfare than work

35d3qc7.jpg

Edited by yelims

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Guest sillybear2

mcwilliams is a populist joker ill take what he says with a grain of salt, his main objective is to self whoor himself and line own pockets by selling books to stupid people

as i said people are suffering but only the ones who got themselves into alot of debt or were involved or dependant on unsustainable construction, and they ******ing deserve to ive no remorse in saying it

But they're not suffering, they've simply dumped all their liabilities on to the state and the losses are now being socialised :-

75pc of first loans in NAMA not being paid off

So the "I'm alright jack" bunch may feel they're alright, but they're just ignorant of what's being done in their name, and that their future taxes will be used to bailout the very people they disapprove of.

"thanks to idiots willing to loan money to this bankrupt country"

Which is exactly McWilliams' point, are you a populist joker too? :P

Edited by sillybear2

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But they're not suffering, they've simply dumped all their liabilities on to the state and the losses are now being socialised :-

75pc of first loans in NAMA not being paid off

So the "I'm alright jack" bunch may feel they're alright, but they're just ignorant of what's being done in their name, and that their future taxes will be used to bailout the very people they disapprove of.

look i dont know why you are preaching to me about NAMA :blink:

i know well its a scam to socialize shit on the people of the country and objected to it from day one, it was a bad idea then its still a bad idea

hence why im doing everything possible to ensure i dont pay any more taxes to these clowns and get on with my life

infact i dont worry too much about NAMA because

the yearly

deficit being ran up

thanks to public sector and welfare

is a much bigger problem

:P

illustrated here

210n0xk.png

Which is exactly McWilliams' point, are you a populist joker too? :P

i dont make a living from whooring myself ;)

Edited by yelims

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Guest sillybear2

look i dont know why you are preaching to me about NAMA :blink:

i know well its a scam to socialize shit on the people of the country and objected to it from day one, it was a bad idea then its still a bad idea

A bad idea, but it's happening, the very people who were meant to suffer have been bailed out, and the prudent will pay, and there's nothing you can do about it (apart from leave). Earlier on in this thread people were talking about there being no hardship and only the people who acted like fools in the bubble were suffering, a kind of poetic justice, but that's clearly not the case. The idiots have brought the very state to the brink of insolvency.

Ireland is simply a fully owned subsidiary of the ECB, which is a proxy for German tax payers.

Edited by sillybear2

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A bad idea, but it's happening, the very people who were meant to suffer have been bailed out, and the prudent will pay, and there's nothing you can do about it (apart from leave). Earlier on in this thread people were talking about there being no hardship and only the people who acted like fools in the bubble were suffering, a kind of poetic justice, but that's clearly not the case. The idiots have brought the very state to the brink of insolvency.

Ireland is simply a fully owned subsidiary of the ECB, which is a proxy for German tax payers.

yes the people at the very top of the pyramid skipped the country or still running it :(

but to say that theres no hardship or noone involved in property hasnt payed is silly and just shows that you need to read a bit more than mcwilliams and maybe actually visit the country:

* 300,000 new unemployed mostly from construction sector

* all banks nationalised or nearly nationalised, shareholders loosing everything

* nama taking over assets at fraction of their costs

* people who bought into the bubble are deep in negative equity

and as i illustrated NAMA pales into insignificance to the deficit being ran up by Public Service and Welfare

Edited by yelims

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Guest sillybear2

yes the people at the very top of the pyramid skipped the country or still running it :(

but to say that theres no hardship or noone involved in property hasnt payed is silly and just shows that you need to read a bit more than mcwilliams and maybe actually visit the country:

Except I haven't said those things, just the opposite, I was actually responding to the people who still believe the streets are paved with gold due to their personal anecdotes. I'm saying you're made to suffer even if you did nothing stupid, and everything you've come up with proves that too.

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Simple observation - has anyone on this thread met someone in Ireland who's suffered from the financial crisis?

I haven't. Dozens of relations in Galway and Cork, broad mix of working people with ordinary debts and assets: they're all doing ok. Professionals I talk with have stories of individual disaster, but each story is about someone on the far side of the county, so it's like reading sensational stuff in the newspapers.

Amazing to have this impression when the figures are so bad. The people I talk with may be whistling past the graveyard, but their circumstances really don't seem grim.

ps. McWilliams is very poor.

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  • 146 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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