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TheMadJock

Thrown In The Towel

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I may not post a lot around here but believe me, I am no 'troll'! I just want to share today's events and my reasons ;) .

As of today I have offered and been accepted on a nice 3-bed semi here in Bedford. We NEED to move from our 1-bed flat due to recent marriage, step-daughter arriving and in a while another child I'm sure.

I've hung on for a good while and prices have dropped from the peak. They may well drop more but we have sold this place for what I consider to be a better than fair price whilst buying for a better price than I had budgeted for. We had sold about 3 months ago but in the end pulled out as I felt we were giving it away and could find nobody who would play ball with us. I wasn't prepared to rent and risk losing both ways.

As a guide, we're putting down a 10% deposit, fixing the mortgage rate for 5 years and will have a 25 year repayment mortgage with a monthly figure only slightly more than the cost of renting a comparable place. Yes, prices may fall further, maintenance etc will be my problem and we may buy for less if we hang on but to be honest at 34yo I'm fed up waiting for 'tommorrow' and just want to get on with life now.

I admit that I'm lucky in that I earn a decent salary in the private sector and they will never be able to outsource my job. If I lose it through ill-health they will pay me handsomely to get rid of me. At less than 4 times my salary it has to be said that in many respects it isn't really that dear though it grates that it was half that price 4 years ago and nothing fundamantal has changed, just a giant debt induced bubble.

I don't want to sound like I'm gloating as I know there are a lot of people who will probably never get the chance to own a place like this in their area, even if prices dropped by 50%. I know I will be chastised for throwing in the towel but we HAVE closed the 'price to change' quite significantly (IF it all goes to plan!), we can comfortably afford the increased outgoings and with such a small difference between renting and buying on a REPAYMENT BASIS I'm afraid I'm just not prepared to put my life on hold any longer.

I don't post much here but lurk a lot and believe me I share the feelings of many of you regarding the generally messed-up state of this country. My wife is 'not of these parts' and in 25 years or less from now I just hope, God willing, that we will own an asset of SOME value. We will then sell up and disappear into the sunset, never to return to these shores.

Hope you guys don't mind me continuing to lurk on the forum - interesting times are ahead I'm sure!

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Good for you. If you are happy with it and can afford it, why not?

Most of us reading this site want to be able to buy somewhere, but have been priced out. Had we been able, we would have bought ages ago.

It would be nice to have the luxury of timing the market, but not everyone can. Marriage, starting a family or just being sick of renting can lead people to buy and at prices they feel are over-stated.

I am pretty bearish on the market, but will not be able to wait until 2009 or whenever.

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This sounds like a very sensible approach and good luck to you. You have fixed your morgage rate for 5 years which means that if interest rates go up to 10% or thereabouts then your 200,000 at 5% or thereabouts is costing you the same as someone elses 100,000, and you obviously need a home. Personally I am keen for a rather large slump toward affordability, but you seem to have established appropriate measures to risk manage affordability and will almost certainly survive the slump that I am praying for!

Edited by Elizabeth

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To speak metaphorically you've thrown in the towel before any fight had started.

Its your call, we need people to chase the market down, best of luck to you and your family. :)

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I am pretty bearish on the market, but will not be able to wait until 2009 or whenever.

Yes, I definitely think it is about getting your life-priorities right. TheMadJock is trading up so he probably hasn't had to find as much money as what an FTB would trying to buy.

Don't approach the situation as "I will until year X and if prices haven't crashed by then I'll buy anyway".

Keep your individual finances under review, and take a long-term view as to how much money you will have spent on rent and a mortgage over the next 25 years.

The cost of renting a few years more may still be more financially astute than buying a house which, at best, is not rising in value.

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If you are already on the ladder and have equity then to some extent you are shileded form the fluctuating market.

you don't seem to have considered your previous poperty as a piggy bank to stack up debt..

all makes sense

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Sorry folks, realise I haven't put all the actual figures here to back up the decision.

Basically, house is 148K, were selling for up to 160K a year or so ago but do genuinely seem to be shifting now when priced around the 150K mark. After deposit we'll be borrowing 133K and keeping around 5K back after all costs 'just in case' (New boiler??? Been there before :angry: ).

I earn 32K with gauranteed overtime of about 4K on top. I am also lucky to get annual increases of around 5%. Last year I earned 45K but have no intention of working so much this year, not when I see how much the thieving bar-stewards from Inland Revenue are creaming me for. Mrs Mad Jock has a decent job which may or may not be 'outsource-proof' but with family plans ahead and my job allowing me to turn up the taps if required I'm not depending on it anyway. Could be tight for a bit but I think most people struggle.

I'm sure many people would love to be able to buy a 3-bed house in a decent area of their vicinity for this money. Like I said before, I don't want to sound like I'm gloating but I think my reasonsing and logic are fairly sound.

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Sorry folks, realise I haven't put all the actual figures here to back up the decision.

Basically, house is 148K, were selling for up to 160K a year or so ago but do genuinely seem to be shifting now when priced around the 150K mark.  After deposit we'll be borrowing 133K and keeping around 5K back after all costs 'just in case' (New boiler??? Been there before  :angry: ).

I earn 32K with gauranteed overtime of about 4K on top.  I am also lucky to get annual increases of around 5%.  Last year I earned 45K but have no intention of working so much this year, not when I see how much the thieving bar-stewards from Inland Revenue are creaming me for.  Mrs Mad Jock has a decent job which may or may not be 'outsource-proof' but with family plans ahead and my job allowing me to turn up the taps if required I'm not depending on it anyway.  Could be tight for a bit but I think most people struggle.

I'm sure many people would love to be able to buy a 3-bed house in a decent area of their vicinity for this money.  Like I said before, I don't want to sound like I'm gloating but I think my reasonsing and logic are fairly sound.

Absolutely the right attitude - you're buying a house that you can afford to maintain, as a place to live in, not as a financial gambit - from what I see, that is exactly what the majority of rational posters on here want to do. I can afford to wait, I have no dependents, but if you are a) confident you can afford repayments with a decent margin of error B) are planning on staying in the same place for at least 7 or 8 years and c) like the house, then you are doing the totally right thing. Good luck; I hope everthing goes well for you and yours.

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MadJock

having str for 2 years I have also just thrown in the towel!!

I recently had an offer accepted for a house in London. Interestingly we saw our place within 2 days of it coming on the market and immediately put in an offer 10k below the asking price. Unfortunatley two competing offers were submitted and we had to increase our offer by 7k to secure the deal - another couple offered the full price but we had the advantage of not being in a chain and holding 50% deposit in cash and the sellers where keen to move fast.

I'm sure my experience was an isolated incident becasue the property was so expectional - 3 storey, 4bd house with osp and a 150ft garden, in a nice part of south London within 30mins of canary wharf for less than 400k. Overall I'm bearish on property but like you I just feel I want to get on with my life and I'm fed up of having to ask permission to hang a picture on the wall! - at the end of the day buying a house isn't a purely financial decision

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Guest consa
I may not post a lot around here but believe me, I am no 'troll'!  I just want to share today's events and my reasons  ;) .

As of today I have offered and been accepted on a nice 3-bed semi here in Bedford.  We NEED to move from our 1-bed flat due to recent marriage, step-daughter arriving and in a while another child I'm sure.

I've hung on for a good while and prices have dropped from the peak.  They may well drop more but we have sold this place for what I consider to be a better than fair price whilst buying for a better price than I had budgeted for.  We had sold about 3 months ago but in the end pulled out as I felt we were giving it away and could find nobody who would play ball with us. I wasn't prepared to rent and risk losing both ways.

As a guide, we're putting down a 10% deposit, fixing the mortgage rate for 5 years and will have a 25 year repayment mortgage with a monthly figure only slightly more than the cost of renting a comparable place.  Yes, prices may fall further, maintenance etc will be my problem  and we may buy for less if we hang on but to be honest at 34yo I'm fed up waiting for 'tommorrow' and just want to get on with life now. 

I admit that I'm lucky in that I earn a decent salary in the private sector and they will never be able to outsource my job.  If I lose it through ill-health they will pay me handsomely to get rid of me.  At less than 4 times my salary it has to be said that in many respects it isn't really that dear though it grates that it was half that price 4 years ago and nothing fundamantal has changed, just a giant debt induced bubble.

I don't want to sound like I'm gloating as I know there are a lot of people who will probably never get the chance to own a place like this in their area, even if prices dropped by 50%.  I know I will be chastised for throwing in the towel but we HAVE closed the 'price to change' quite significantly (IF it all goes to plan!), we can comfortably afford the increased outgoings and with such a small difference between renting and buying on a REPAYMENT BASIS I'm afraid I'm just not prepared to put my life on hold any longer.

I don't post much here but lurk a lot and believe me I share the feelings of many of you regarding the generally messed-up state of this country.  My wife is 'not of these parts' and in 25 years or less from now I just hope, God willing, that we will own an asset of SOME value.  We will then sell up and disappear into the sunset, never to return to these shores. 

Hope you guys don't mind me continuing to lurk on the forum - interesting times are ahead I'm sure!

Not putting your life on hold? I'm confused, why the compulsion to buy (why do you feel you have to buy)? I have read your miserable reasons and you are selfishly committing financial slavery to your family for many more years than necessary, I have only one word for it , MUG, best place for you is over on C4 forum where they also have no financial savvy.

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You made your own choice and you are happy with it so that's fine. But really if prices drop further (by>10%) are you happy to stay in a 3 bed semi for the long term?

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Not putting your life on hold? I'm confused, why the compulsion to buy (why do you feel you have to buy)? I have read your miserable reasons and you are selfishly committing financial slavery to your family for many more years than necessary, I have only one word for it , MUG, best place for you is over on C4 forum where they also have no financial savvy.

I make no predictions on whether or not I'm calling the market right here. I think what I'm saying is I'm fortunate, or foolish enough to be able to take the risk. A fool and his money may be easily parted and I may well see in a year or two that we could have held on.

But quite simply, I already have one marriage behind me and don't intend to start the second worrying about tommorrow. As I said, I can afford the outgoings comfortably and want to move to a place in a decent area with space for us and an addition to our family. The schools are good, the house in question suits us and our lifestyle very well and the cost to change is significantly less than I had hoped for, due to getting 'peak' price for our flat and paying significantly under 'peak' for the house. We want to be able to move in, decorate the place to how WE want when we want, extending it when WE want to and to make it OUR home.

As also stated, it would cost us about as much to rent it and that is IF one became available which after watching the market for a very long time, they rarely do. I really can't be arsed to be at the whim of a load of ameteur BTL landlords who can't afford to keep the place right and keep trying to sell up - I know of friends who have had this happen twice now.

As a natural bear and a bit of a pessimist, this has been a hard decision. But my reasons are not 'miserable' they are my personal reasons and emotions which I have chosen to share on this forum. The price may turn out to be high but I suspect not so much as some may hope for their own reasons. I am in a fortunate position in terms of my job and the local house prices in relation to my salary and I am choosing, perhaps wrongly, to use this for what we feel we want from life. If the shit hits the fan this is our only debt, a position I suspect very few are in............ My 'financial savvy' has, to date, served me well enough considering how a messy divorce tends to try to make things otherwise <_< .

In 25 years and no doubt significantly less, we WILL own a property but until then we'll just keep chipping away with overpayments but otherwise forget about what the rest of the world is doing ;) .

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Guest consa

Whilst not knowing your financial situation and it is of no concern of mine, could you not hold a year or two and have that mortgage paid off 5 years or more sooner leaving you better off later?

I can understand your family reasons for "having a place of your own"

This is just renting off the bank, in a couple of years you will see loads of these "ideal houses" for sale way below what you are about to pay and when you do, remember to pop back and let me know how much you could have saved on the price and I'll let you know how much you would have saved over the term of the mortgage, or the number of years you could have saved paying for it.

You probably wouldn't want to know, but it will always eat away inside your head in those last few years.

when you reach 55 you will think back how you would be retired but have to continue till you are 60 - 65 because of impatience and foolishness.

Don't forget the long term average interest rate 8-10%

Edited by consa

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Guest consa
No skin off your nose, Consa, it's not your money - why the rant?

It is a shame to see someone work those extra years for nothing, true, it is no skin of my nose, it's hardly going to influence the property market now is it.

Whats the point of coming on to HPC and telling everyone you are buying a house? sympathy, congratulations, or the truth.

If it's sympathy or congratulations someone wants for buying, there is plenty on the C4 website

and that wasn't a rant.

or do you have any other idea why someone should post that?

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I entirely agree with the decision you have arrived at. I mean if the price of your new house came down by a modest £40,000 (less than 30% fall) in 2 years it would only end up saving you about £240 a month at say 6%. Hardly worth worrying about really!!

Then again you can't rent 3 bed houses can you?

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It's funny how one's mood changes quite quickly. A week ago I would have said you were doing the right thing.

Now I am not so sure. I have a nagging feeling that won't go away that it's all going to turn out really badly. The latest reports from retailers - hasn't been as bad since 1983 - the price of oil - it's all so familiar. What comes next is recession - and no-one's job is safe in a recession.

Accompanying this, sooner or later, we are going to get higher interest rates. Okay you have locked in for 5 years - good move - I'd fix for 25 years if I were you. Historically rates don't stay as low as they are now for long.

The fact you are already in the market obviously makes your position different from a would be FTB.

On the whole I think you should go for it - but still there is a little voice saying 'the cost to trade up in a couple of years might be a lot, lot less'. (But, of course, it might not.) Good luck anyway.

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Guest prudence

I find it strange that people come on here and apologise for buying a home and others attack them for doing so. I am someone who has str....d and if I wanted to could buy a home tomorrow. I don't because I want a home that has a good chance of being a financially sound investment and I am not interested in buying into this market as I am confident it is going to get a lot worse before it starts to get better. However, I appreciate that other people have dfifferent priorities. The only time I would criticise someone for buying now is if they are deluding themselves into thinking that it makes good financial sense to do so and try to argue as such. So long as they realise that by waiting they could probably buy the same asset for less and therefore reduce their mortgage commitments then I think it is wrong that they should be attacked for doing so.

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At the end of the day if buying a house is the right thing for you, then thats what you should do. Renting is all very well and most certainly a good move financially in this climate, but if you can afford to buy without crippling yourself and think the pros outway the cons... then why not?

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I make no predictions on whether or not I'm calling the market right here.

I don't know whether you'll forgive me for saying so, but in this sense you've declared your interest in the site as purely academic. Those of us who live by speculation recognise that this is a valid stance in an uncertain world.

None the less, the site IS about market timing. In this respect I understand those who would say it is pointless to hold a market view and not act on it.

You sound an honest forthright chap(ess) and in your case I feel we can all rest assured you won't be back later telling us of your "shrewd market move," should your choice to buy prove profitable.

For that you really would get a lashing! B)

Edited by Sledgehead

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I find it strange that people come on here and apologise for buying a home and others attack them for doing so.  I am someone who has str....d and if I wanted to could buy a home tomorrow.  I don't because I want a home that has a good chance of being a financially sound investment and I am not interested in buying into this market as I am confident it is going to get a lot worse before it starts to get better.  However, I appreciate that other people have dfifferent priorities.  The only time I would criticise someone for buying now is if they are deluding themselves into thinking that it makes good financial sense to do so and try to argue as such.  So long as they realise that by waiting they could probably buy the same asset for less and therefore reduce their mortgage commitments then I think it is wrong that they should be attacked for doing so.

I'm with Prudance on this one regards his comments about attacking those that through personal circumstances deem it more benificial to buy now than wait. Sure it may cost them tens of thousands of pounds, but they have weighed up the options as they see it, it is their choice.

We also are STR'ers and could buy anytime we want. Indeed there is a house we both like that is empty, and that we put an offer on to the builder in April, thankfully it was turned down. I bet he would bite our hands of right now, but I would not be prepared to pay that offer price now. I reckon this market has a long way to go. Ok that particulare house might sell so what there are thousands out there. Indeed we prefer the house we are renting to the aforemantioned house, and do not consider being in rented as putting our life on hold, but each to their own.

Best of luck to "The MadJock" I say

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Not everyone sees a house purchase as a financial investment - I know I'm not going to retire at 55, and in fact will be lucky to retire at 65. I'm honestly not that concerned with saving a bit of money, and am more concerned with having a home to live in. Not everyone's happiness is ruled by how much £ they have.

Edited by Scarecrow

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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