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Cost Of Civil Servants' 'ponzi' Pension Scheme Threatens Poverty For Future Generations

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On radio this morning they said low interest rates were making the problem worse...

Because the pot of money the fund has to play with doesn't earn much interest, so it won't grow as big as it otherwise would,

Peter.

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Because the pot of money the fund has to play with doesn't earn much interest, so it won't grow as big as it otherwise would,

Peter.

So they could tweak this bit ...?

:)

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"and the public sector can moan all they like about T+C's and how some dumb Humphrey back in the 1960's thought it was utterly reasonable to make these promises but bankrupt is as bankrupt does.We cannot force our young people to make sacrifices so that a few can live in plenty while many live in penury. "

No, what we had back then was a country that prided itself on bringing up decent people and providing decent standards of living and employment for its citizens. Nothing wrong with that, if you think today's world is better then you are either a Tory or mad, or both. Civil Servants provided a high standard of service for lower pay and were respected in the wider community. Those standards are still maintained today but sadly the respect element no longer remains due to the way that those in the private sector have had their pay and conditions worsened over the years and the bitterness as a result. When the excellence the Civil Service once prided itself on suffers as a result of this witchhunt the country will have itself to blame and the customer will pay dearly.

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what pot of money?

I knew that this would come up as soon as I hit <return> :rolleyes:

Presumably (and you can correct me here), there are contributions made by employers and employees which notionally accrue interest?

Otherwise, if it's all from current cash, in what way can interest rates affect anything?

Peter.

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Civil Servants provided a high standard of service for lower pay and were respected in the wider community.

Nowadays they are not, at least so it seems to me.

Maybe that is part of the problem? The scope of government has expanded greatly since the 60s, and big government is causing resentment in some quarters.

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Because the pot of money the fund has to play with doesn't earn much interest, so it won't grow as big as it otherwise would,

Peter.

They should invest the lot in BTL. Once houses double in value there'll be plenty of money for everyone!

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"and the public sector can moan all they like about T+C's and how some dumb Humphrey back in the 1960's thought it was utterly reasonable to make these promises but bankrupt is as bankrupt does.We cannot force our young people to make sacrifices so that a few can live in plenty while many live in penury. "

No, what we had back then was a country that prided itself on bringing up decent people and providing decent standards of living and employment for its citizens. Nothing wrong with that, if you think today's world is better then you are either a Tory or mad, or both. Civil Servants provided a high standard of service for lower pay and were respected in the wider community. Those standards are still maintained today but sadly the respect element no longer remains due to the way that those in the private sector have had their pay and conditions worsened over the years and the bitterness as a result. When the excellence the Civil Service once prided itself on suffers as a result of this witchhunt the country will have itself to blame and the customer will pay dearly.

What a load of b*llocks.

Sponging is what it is, and having a cushy job and expecting it to entitle you to potentially decades of free money paid for by someone else you've done nothing for is immoral, so so much for your pride and decency.

Have some pride and take care of yourself, and the decency not to pretend sponging is something noble.

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I knew that this would come up as soon as I hit <return> :rolleyes:

Presumably (and you can correct me here), there are contributions made by employers and employees which notionally accrue interest?

Otherwise, if it's all from current cash, in what way can interest rates affect anything?

Peter.

It is, and they can't. There is no pot, there is no money. That's kinda the problem! :)

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I knew that this would come up as soon as I hit <return> :rolleyes:

Presumably (and you can correct me here), there are contributions made by employers and employees which notionally accrue interest?

Otherwise, if it's all from current cash, in what way can interest rates affect anything?

Peter.

I think it's something to do with the yield on a capital sum having to provide the anuity. If you have low interest rates, you need a larger capital sum to provide the necessary annual pension payment.

Edited to add - it's true. The only pot is what the treasury smokes.

Ooh and another example provided this time by macca of obdurate refusal to face thruths. Instead, his lot talk about decency, fairness and they spit out the word 'Tory'. I'm not a Tory. I'm not anything political - but I can count.

Edited by Potwalloper

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Not all Govt worker pension schemes are unfunded, for instance local authority workers have a funded final salary pension scheme that has built up assets from both employee and employer contributions, I pay 7% of salary into the scheme.

Currently the scheme is not 100% funded, currently at around 80%, but still much better than many company final salary schemes.

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I think it's something to do with the yield on a capital sum having to provide the anuity. If you have low interest rates, you need a larger capital sum to provide the necessary annual pension payment.

To confirm, does "the gov" buy an annuity for each pensioner then, at the point when they retire? The actual monthly pension payments are not made out of current cash?

Peter.

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As Chas says, not all government pensions are unfunded. The Post Office one is doing quite well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/comment/iancowie/4864302/Comment-The-pension-fund-thats-never-had-any-money-in-it.html

Now you know why Mandelson was so keen to privatise it.

As a soft lefty I am quite keen that the postmen and women should hang on to their pensions. They don't get paid much and the ones I deal with are always cheerful. I don't hold out much hope for them though.

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What a load of b*llocks.

Sponging is what it is, and having a cushy job and expecting it to entitle you to potentially decades of free money paid for by someone else you've done nothing for is immoral, so so much for your pride and decency.

Have some pride and take care of yourself, and the decency not to pretend sponging is something noble.

Garbage

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Incorrect

Will they grasp the nettle, and do this properly? I doubt it.

The public sector pensions are just out of line with reality. Longer lives have pushed up the liabilities over the years, and now we have falling pay in the private sectore, making it more and more difficult to raise enough tax to pay these pensions.

So they wont be paid.

But will the pain be felt equally? So far all I have read about is schemes to stop new entrants getting the same benefits as those already in the scheme. That isnt fair, and I doubt it will work. All benefits from these schemes need to be cut.

And that includes those already retired. They have plonked a huge liability on to people that, in many cases, werent even born when the schemes were set up. To say that it is their 'contractual right' is a bit rich, given that those who have to pay it had no say at all in these unfair and exploitative contracts.

Unless benefits are cut, right down the scheme, to an affordable level, we will either get unfairness, or more taxation than the private sector can withstand.

I even wonder sometimes, if a state default, might not be a bad thing. Then the Government would have to spend only as much as it could tax. There would be a lot of changes. In the courts, you would have Human Rights arguing with maths about what could be paid. No doubt judges put Human Rights above maths, but that would just expose the stupidity of the courts to everyone in the country.

Yes, on reflection, a state default would be a good thing.

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  • 153 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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