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If Companies Honestly Cannot Pay A Living Wage

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Talking to some business people in person and online about the living wage, many are saying they honestly cannot pay a living wage. Their business would be non-viable if they had to pay a living wage. I tried to explain that if the competitors also had to pay a living wage it would be a different situation. But they are still insisting that customers would not buy their product at the higher price.

Now a living wage is a pretty low bar to aim for in a first world nation. It is basically a place to stay, basic utilities, enough food to survive on, clothing and thats about it.

But what if the business people are right? What if in todays world the free market is just not capable of providing jobs with even an income that can barely sustain a person - for your average person. If they are right, then don't we as a society have to look for different economic system that can provide a better standard of living for the vast majority of the population?

Because on a physical/technological level its obvious we can easily provide everyone with food/housing/utilities/clothing with a small fraction of our workforce.

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There's no reason why the cost of living needs to be so high. Housing benefits sustains artificially high rents. The government should be tougher on those who hoard empty property for years so it can be brought into use at peppercorn rents. Mortgage lending needs to be rationed to bring house prices under control. The personal tax allowance should be much higher.

It's seems stupid hoping to get people off benefits when the real world doesn't really function properly.

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Talking to some business people in person and online about the living wage, many are saying they honestly cannot pay a living wage. Their business would be non-viable if they had to pay a living wage. I tried to explain that if the competitors also had to pay a living wage it would be a different situation. But they are still insisting that customers would not buy their product at the higher price.

Now a living wage is a pretty low bar to aim for in a first world nation. It is basically a place to stay, basic utilities, enough food to survive on, clothing and thats about it.

But what if the business people are right? What if in todays world the free market is just not capable of providing jobs with even an income that can barely sustain a person - for your average person. If they are right, then don't we as a society have to look for different economic system that can provide a better standard of living for the vast majority of the population?

Because on a physical/technological level its obvious we can easily provide everyone with food/housing/utilities/clothing with a small fraction of our workforce.

Too late.

The series of housing bubbles has destroyed this country's ability to generate income. The chickens are coming home to roost from persistent central planning and monetary policy failure that have resulted in a horrific distortion of the economy.

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Talking to some business people in person and online about the living wage, many are saying they honestly cannot pay a living wage. Their business would be non-viable if they had to pay a living wage. I tried to explain that if the competitors also had to pay a living wage it would be a different situation. But they are still insisting that customers would not buy their product at the higher price.

Now a living wage is a pretty low bar to aim for in a first world nation. It is basically a place to stay, basic utilities, enough food to survive on, clothing and thats about it.

But what if the business people are right? What if in todays world the free market is just not capable of providing jobs with even an income that can barely sustain a person - for your average person. If they are right, then don't we as a society have to look for different economic system that can provide a better standard of living for the vast majority of the population?

Because on a physical/technological level its obvious we can easily provide everyone with food/housing/utilities/clothing with a small fraction of our workforce.

Yes...we need a new economic system, the current one is broken as it has only one aim, the total enrichment of the plutocracy, business no longer has any social function its merely about driving costs ever lower on a global basis...todays corporations are like Victorian mill owners on steroids. Until and unless we break the control of the banking/investement sector parasites on our political system and until and unless we end globalisation and the socialisation of loss and the privatisation of profit our society is doomed to ultimate collapse.

Let the watchwords of all our people be the old familiar watchwords of honesty, decency, fair-dealing, and commonsense."... "We must treat each man on his worth and merits as a man. We must see that each is given a square deal, because he is entitled to no more and should receive no less.""The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us. Roosevelt

Edited by Lucifer

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I would set a living wage such that no tax credit subsidies are required.

To ensure competitiveness, I would impose the same strictures on any imports - such that any imports are based on quality and innovation not wage, social support and environmental arbitrage.

End the race to the bottom!

The real problem is the cost of shelter relative to income.

If shelter costs dropped by 50%, I do not think that incomes would be affected very much and most people would be much better off.

High shelter costs relative to income and speculative gains on shelter drain the economy. Firstly, there is not enough income left to after shelter costs for consumption to match production. Secondly, capital is diverted to non-productive speculation in shelter.

Creating a living wage that can sustain the current high shelter costs will make us even less competitive internationally than we already are.

We need lower shelter costs. The complete lack of a free market in land with planning permission and the externalisation of the true cost of empty properties are the two areas that contribute most to the current high shelter costs.

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Replying to If Companies Honestly Cannot Pay A Living Wage

The companies should and will go bust.

indeed, its obvious...too many companies competing for the same business...clearly, everyone is sharing a pie...the more sharing the less the slice.

this is what the BUST is supposed to cure....kill the weak...the strong survive and the economy restarts.

government interference and a huge tax and borrowing drain just hinders and prolongs the BUST.

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There's no reason why the cost of living needs to be so high. Housing benefits sustains artificially high rents. The government should be tougher on those who hoard empty property for years so it can be brought into use at peppercorn rents. Mortgage lending needs to be rationed to bring house prices under control. The personal tax allowance should be much higher.

It's seems stupid hoping to get people off benefits when the real world doesn't really function properly.

You are faster than me.

A living wage can be achieved in two ways : raise wages or lower costs.

We live in a global market so raising wages while retaing jobs is difficult. Lowering costs is the only solution. Housing would be a good place to start.

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Replying to If Companies Honestly Cannot Pay A Living Wage

The companies should and will go bust.

They will of the cost of living doesn't reduce. Global competition will see to that either directly or through inshored migrant labour. Gone past the point of dealing with the problem, now needs fixing immediately before total collapse occurs.

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It's not low wages which are the problem. It's high living costs which fit into the following areas of essential expenditure;

  • Rent/Mortgage - We NEED a crash in property prices
  • Council Tax - Could be halved without really noticing an effect on services
  • Water Rates - Water companies should not make a profit.
  • Electricity - Ditto
  • Gas - Ditto
  • Fuel - Far too much tax on fuel
  • Food - prices will drop when fuel prices drop.

Anything else is a luxury, but all of the above are too high and the govt should do something about it.

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indeed, its obvious...too many companies competing for the same business...clearly, everyone is sharing a pie...the more sharing the less the slice.

this is what the BUST is supposed to cure....kill the weak...the strong survive and the economy restarts.

government interference and a huge tax and borrowing drain just hinders and prolongs the BUST.

too many companies paying too much for their costs too - artifically pumped up rents based on artificially pumped up commercial property prices.

The govt. BOE have created this mess and know of no other policy other than trying to bluff it out and continuing the head****** policy. They have destroyed the economic viability of the country in an open world market. It will end in ruin.

Edited by OnlyMe

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Replying to If Companies Honestly Cannot Pay A Living Wage

The companies should and will go bust.

Nope, they will move overseas, where employees can live and flourish on a competitive wage. UK will become a nation of BTL landlords and the unemployed benifits 'scrounger' (aka smartest people in Britain)

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Nope, they will move overseas, where employees can live and flourish on a competitive wage. UK will become a nation of BTL landlords and the unemployed benifits 'scrounger' (aka smartest people in Britain)

More of the same then? Seems to me to be the plan. The government clearly agree with us.

In the globalised free market everyone is equal. If you can't work for a bowl of rice a day to undercut your Chinese competitor you had best start trawling the rubbish tips for old aluminium cans to resell like they do in India.

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More of the same then? Seems to me to be the plan. The government clearly agree with us.

In the globalised free market everyone is equal. If you can't work for a bowl of rice a day to undercut your Chinese competitor you had best start trawling the rubbish tips for old aluminium cans to resell like they do in India.

You may have missed the point

Companies in the uk are at a relative disadvantage because of the costs inflicted on people who work in the uk (rent and taxes)

If these costs were reduced, there would be no need to live on a bowl of rice in order to compete

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[*]Rent/Mortgage - We NEED a crash in property prices

Plenty of land. And in another thread they were talking about new (swiss i think) building technologies etc to build cheaper houses.

[*]Council Tax - Could be halved without really noticing an effect on services

Hopefully. This needs to be costed. Not sure how it would work.

[*]Water Rates - Water companies should not make a profit.

[*]Electricity - Ditto

[*]Gas - Ditto

Not sure if you get any company investing in maintaing the system then. The current return is only around RPI + 2%.

NationalGrid has decided not to invest at all in the US before US won't let them make any money... Unless Oxfam et all

wants to get into water/electricity/gas generation, exploration and distribution, you have to let the companies make

a reasonable return on capital...

[*]Fuel - Far too much tax on fuel

More public transport

[*]Food - prices will drop when fuel prices drop.

Grow more of your own...

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Not sure if you get any company investing in maintaing the system then. The current return is only around RPI + 2%.

NationalGrid has decided not to invest at all in the US before US won't let them make any money... Unless Oxfam et all

wants to get into water/electricity/gas generation, exploration and distribution, you have to let the companies make

a reasonable return on capital...

That's inefficient - it means they're keeping money that could be used to either reduce costs to the user, increase wages, or spend on infrastructure and maintainance. I've no problem with that if you're producing luxury items but it disturbs me with essentials. Tell them to do a good job and have a big stick ready for if they don't.

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You are faster than me.

A living wage can be achieved in two ways : raise wages or lower costs.

We live in a global market so raising wages while retaing jobs is difficult. Lowering costs is the only solution. Housing would be a good place to start.

Exactly! We're in a global market place, whether it is good for us or not.

Many thought it was great in the good times - cheap goods, cheap holidays, easy benefits etc - but now the bad times are here and people are crying foul. Unfortunately, we have cannibalised much of our economy and there is no pain free way out.

More of the same then? Seems to me to be the plan. The government clearly agree with us.

In the globalised free market everyone is equal. If you can't work for a bowl of rice a day to undercut your Chinese competitor you had best start trawling the rubbish tips for old aluminium cans to resell like they do in India.

Like it or not, we have a global market place. No amount of socialist min/max wages and regulation is going to change that, but it may just make us even less competitive. The lowest viable bidder will get the contracts.

Perhaps a few people will now realise that we have no natural right to be at the top table in the global economy. Everyone wants a wealthy, easy lifestyle, not just us Brits - they have just as much a right to it too. The cost of living in the UK needs to fall, as we can't legislate that the cost of living should rise elsewhere.

Of course, tariffs could be used, but then you have yet more meddling, distorting pricing signals. This could cause some local businesses to fail, others to prosper, but within a framework defined by flawed centralists. I'm am completely unconvinced that the government can possibly know what is best; they should just stop supporting attempts to keep shelter expensive and allow us to become competitive again.

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More of the same then? Seems to me to be the plan. The government clearly agree with us.

In the globalised free market everyone is equal. If you can't work for a bowl of rice a day to undercut your Chinese competitor you had best start trawling the rubbish tips for old aluminium cans to resell like they do in India.

The problem with this is that if all the workers in the world are only each being paid a bowl of rice a day, just who exactly is going to be buying the goods being made?

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Exactly! We're in a global market place, whether it is good for us or not.

Many thought it was great in the good times - cheap goods, cheap holidays, easy benefits etc - but now the bad times are here and people are crying foul. Unfortunately, we have cannibalised much of our economy and there is no pain free way out.

Like it or not, we have a global market place. No amount of socialist min/max wages and regulation is going to change that, but it may just make us even less competitive. The lowest viable bidder will get the contracts.

Perhaps a few people will now realise that we have no natural right to be at the top table in the global economy. Everyone wants a wealthy, easy lifestyle, not just us Brits - they have just as much a right to it too. The cost of living in the UK needs to fall, as we can't legislate that the cost of living should rise elsewhere.

Of course, tariffs could be used, but then you have yet more meddling, distorting pricing signals. This could cause some local businesses to fail, others to prosper, but within a framework defined by flawed centralists. I'm am completely unconvinced that the government can possibly know what is best; they should just stop supporting attempts to keep shelter expensive and allow us to become competitive again.

Pathetic, the politics of despair, lets all roll over and get f*cked up the bum.

Is this race to the lowest common denominator the only vision you have for your kids future?

You seem to believe that the current economic model is the product of some kind of wonderful, naturally adjusting

laissez faire system. Its not, its a lie and a manipulation, as far from "free market" economics as was Communist Russia.

Wake up.

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The problem with this is that if all the workers in the world are only each being paid a bowl of rice a day, just who exactly is going to be buying the goods being made?

Thank god, at least somebody here understands the unsustainable paradox behind globalisation.

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The problem with this is that if all the workers in the world are only each being paid a bowl of rice a day, just who exactly is going to be buying the goods being made?

How do you reach the conclusion that all of the workers in the world are going to be paid a bowl of rice a day?

Workers and business owners who contribute a lot towards output will be paid a lot no matter where they live.

Workers and business owners who do not contribute a lot towards output will be paid very little no matter where they live.

Consumption of output will shift geographically.

The average Briton will be worse off. The average Brazilian will be better off.

Trying to prevent this reality in Britain by taking on more debt rather than facing the simple truth that our cost of living is too high only makes things worse.

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How do you reach the conclusion that all of the workers in the world are going to be paid a bowl of rice a day?

Workers and business owners who contribute a lot towards output will be paid a lot no matter where they live.

Workers and business owners who do not contribute a lot towards output will be paid very little no matter where they live.

Consumption of output will shift geographically.

The average Briton will be worse off. The average Brazilian will be better off.

Trying to prevent this reality in Britain by taking on more debt rather than facing the simple truth that our cost of living is too high only makes things worse.

You're completely missing the point that globalisation is a 100% parasitic model of capitalism, it only works on the basis of workers being paid the minimum possible, so if wages did rise in Brazil the globalised model would dictate that production had to be shifted to somewhere cheaper, and on on, globlaised businesses chasing the cheapest production costs across the world: essentially a snake swallowing its own tale. Unsustainable. Once again, you are considering globalisation is a free market model. It is not.

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Funny

how all of you want more government interference and price-fixing in various asset classes

but then yee moan about price fixing and interference in the property markets causing high prices

bloody hypocrites <_<

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  • 144 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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