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How Many Btls Are There?

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I have had the misfortune to watch programs like 'Homes Under the Hammer' on numerous occasions (work from home, watch it for 10 minutes when having a tea break).

It strikes me that a high percentage of the people who buy the properties and are subsequently interviewed by the gormless Martin or irritating Lucy (think that's her name) are serial property owners. They nearly all have 'portfolios' and a good number of them say things like 'this is my 23rd property etc.' Even the ones who say it's their first, always say at the end that they are buying more.

I'm beginng to wonder .... just how many properties are now owned by BTLetters? I'm under the impression (illusion?) that there are about 20 million residential properties in the UK. If there were, say 500,000 BTLetters with an average portfolio of 10 properties - that's 5 million properties - or, one quarter of the UK housing stock.

Are there any figures on this? As long as rents cover the mortgage, if a significant proportion of the UK's housing stock is rented, that's another reason why prices won't fall.

When figures are produced on 'owner occupation', do they account for the fact that Mr. Smith has 50 mortgages on 50 BTL properties? Are they counted as 'owner occupied' - i.e. not social housing - or are they counted as rentals?

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A lot more now than will be the case in July 2012...........

Anyway antiques are the new BTL don't you watch any day time TV? :rolleyes:

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I have had the misfortune to watch programs like 'Homes Under the Hammer' on numerous occasions (work from home, watch it for 10 minutes when having a tea break).

It strikes me that a high percentage of the people who buy the properties and are subsequently interviewed by the gormless Martin or irritating Lucy (think that's her name) are serial property owners. They nearly all have 'portfolios' and a good number of them say things like 'this is my 23rd property etc.' Even the ones who say it's their first, always say at the end that they are buying more.

/quote]

I watch HUTH quite a bit on and off (only way I ever get any ironing done) and to be quite fair a number of the properties do go to people (esp. FTBs) who are simply looking for a home.

Not long ago there was also someone who bought a house in Cornwall simply because he wanted to restore and preserve the 12th/13thC water mill in the garden.

Not to mention the woman who bought a piece of woodland for her husband, just to enjoy.

As for the others, they don't all have huge portfolios with teams of builders on tap. You do see quite a few who put a mass of their own sheer hard graft and sweat into turning some filthy, grotty hellhole into somewhere people would actually like to live.

As far as I'm concerned, good luck to any of those - if they make any profit/income, they've certainly earned it.

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A lot more now than will be the case in July 2012...........

Anyway antiques are the new BTL don't you watch any day time TV? :rolleyes:

There's tons of programs but have been for years. It's tricky to find anything good at a carboot or jumble these days as everyone knows the value of all the tat.

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I have had the misfortune to watch programs like 'Homes Under the Hammer' on numerous occasions (work from home, watch it for 10 minutes when having a tea break).

It strikes me that a high percentage of the people who buy the properties and are subsequently interviewed by the gormless Martin or irritating Lucy (think that's her name) are serial property owners. They nearly all have 'portfolios' and a good number of them say things like 'this is my 23rd property etc.' Even the ones who say it's their first, always say at the end that they are buying more.

I'm beginng to wonder .... just how many properties are now owned by BTLetters? I'm under the impression (illusion?) that there are about 20 million residential properties in the UK. If there were, say 500,000 BTLetters with an average portfolio of 10 properties - that's 5 million properties - or, one quarter of the UK housing stock.

Are there any figures on this? As long as rents cover the mortgage, if a significant proportion of the UK's housing stock is rented, that's another reason why prices won't fall.

When figures are produced on 'owner occupation', do they account for the fact that Mr. Smith has 50 mortgages on 50 BTL properties? Are they counted as 'owner occupied' - i.e. not social housing - or are they counted as rentals?

BTL mortgage approvals, according to the CML:

2007-346k

2009-93.5k

CML website has more detailed figures.

Btw-I'm informed by my other half that huth is re-running pre crash shows-whatever it takes eh..

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2007 - 2009(inc) = just under 700,000 mortgage BTL approvals

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HUTH this morning had one valuation dated Feb 2010. Didn't watch it on purpose, honest. :blink:

Are those BTL mortgages new or net? There don't seem to be figures out when the properties are sold and the mortgages repaid.

Edited by deflation

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So, presumably, between say 1998 and 2007 the number of BTL mortgages must number in the millions. It would appear a very significant proportion of the UK's housing stock is in the hands of investors and, unless they get rental voids and cannot pay the mortgage, they are not going to sell.

More than anything, it needs young people to refuse to pay current rent levels.

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About 700,000 in total.

See Figure 5

Not exactly one quarter of the entire UK housing stock. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good round of plucking figures out of thin air to prove a point.

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About 700,000 in total.

See Figure 5

Not exactly one quarter of the entire UK housing stock. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good round of plucking figures out of thin air to prove a point.

Must be at least 1m ,remember all those people, who rent a property with 'permission to let' from the BS and of course those who just let out a property without any permissions on a residential mortgage, (I know at least 3 people who do this).

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About 700,000 in total.

See Figure 5

Not exactly one quarter of the entire UK housing stock. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good round of plucking figures out of thin air to prove a point.

In the introduction it says 992,000 BTL mortages to Sept 2007. There's probably loads more bought in cash or with a residential mortgage.

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Must be at least 1m ,remember all those people, who rent a property with 'permission to let' from the BS and of course those who just let out a property without any permissions on a residential mortgage, (I know at least 3 people who do this).

I don't know anyone who has bought to let deliberately, but I do know couples who already had a house/flat each and moved into one place, letting the other one out, or sold one to fund the deposit on a family home and let out the other one. I don't know whether they told the bank/BS; they may well have left the rental property on its residential mortgage.

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I have had the misfortune to watch programs like 'Homes Under the Hammer' on numerous occasions (work from home, watch it for 10 minutes when having a tea break).

It strikes me that a high percentage of the people who buy the properties and are subsequently interviewed by the gormless Martin or irritating Lucy (think that's her name) are serial property owners. They nearly all have 'portfolios' and a good number of them say things like 'this is my 23rd property etc.' Even the ones who say it's their first, always say at the end that they are buying more.

I'm beginng to wonder .... just how many properties are now owned by BTLetters? I'm under the impression (illusion?) that there are about 20 million residential properties in the UK. If there were, say 500,000 BTLetters with an average portfolio of 10 properties - that's 5 million properties - or, one quarter of the UK housing stock.

Are there any figures on this? As long as rents cover the mortgage, if a significant proportion of the UK's housing stock is rented, that's another reason why prices won't fall.

When figures are produced on 'owner occupation', do they account for the fact that Mr. Smith has 50 mortgages on 50 BTL properties? Are they counted as 'owner occupied' - i.e. not social housing - or are they counted as rentals?

Another reason indeed, let's add it to the list:

  • * 40% cuts in the public sector

    * Reduction in housing benefits

    * Higher deposits required

    * Tighter lending requirements

    ...

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It’s very difficult to judge how many BTL there are as already mentioned.

Some relatives who live in London have inherited a four bed house in the West Country and are going to try let it. The thing that shocked me was that they don’t have a clue as to the rent that they’ll get. Their problem is that they think that as it might have got say £1.5k pcm in London down there it’ll never make that. They are an example of what the market terms accidental landlords. I suggested that they sell it but that went down like a lead balloon. Odd thing is they are always moaning how high housing costs are in London.

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Another reason indeed, let's add it to the list:

  • * 40% cuts in the public sector

    * Reduction in housing benefits

    * Higher deposits required

    * Tighter lending requirements

    ...

Yes, we're really going to get 40% cuts in the public sector.

There'll be a huge outcry when housing benefits are cut and social tenants are slung out as landlords look to get higher rents from private tenants

We've had 'higher deposits required' for two years now

We've had 'tighter lending requirements' for two years now

I'm trying to understand why the market hasn't fallen. Doesn't mean I don't want it to fall. I do and have for 7 years now. Getting a bit tired waiting so, as I say, I'm looking for sensible reasons.

The fact that there's a million BTL mortgages, who knows how many more 'effective' BTL mortgages where people have rented out their old home instead of selling it when they bought another, other people who have owned property for generations and another load who have bought property for cash over the last 2 years rather than get feck all interest on their case ... and it looks as though a significant proportion of the UK's housing stock is effectively out of the market.

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About 700,000 in total.

See Figure 5

Not exactly one quarter of the entire UK housing stock. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good round of plucking figures out of thin air to prove a point.

I got the impression the OP was after more information and was asking whether figures were kept - before offering flight of fantasy figures.

You provided a link to the figures and intepreted them to suit what you wanted to say. You didnt mention that the graph you reference states there are 3m privately owned rentals.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way

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  • 146 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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