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Lucifer

Nationalise All Pfi Projects?

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OK...heres an option to save some money (£200bn + in fact!) that for once doesn't involve screwing the ordinary bloke in the street..this from Wikipedia:

By October 2007 the total capital value of PFI contracts signed throughout the UK was £68bn[1], committing the British taxpayer to future spending of £215bn[1] over the life of the contracts.

My proposal is that the government confiscates all these projects, taking them into state ownership, no further payments made, no compensation given: this may be of dubious legality (but when did thaty ever stop a government doing anything) but our rulers are constantly telling us that we need to undergo some pain to get the economy back on track: lets see if they're ready to inflict some of that pain on their own class.

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As to legality, as all these operations are governed by contracts, it would only be possible to nationalise them if you could find evidence of breach of contract. Having said that, a clever lawyer with a fine-toothed comb could probably find some.

But you have to face the fact that the Tories are innately opposed to nationalising anything, even if it makes sense and even if it means saving money.

I know they're desperate to cut public spending, but I doubt whether they would do something that goes so much against the grain for them. I also doubt whether they'd tee off their old school chums and financial backers to that extent.

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As to legality, as all these operations are governed by contracts, it would only be possible to nationalise them if you could find evidence of breach of contract. Having said that, a clever lawyer with a fine-toothed comb could probably find some.

But you have to face the fact that the Tories are innately opposed to nationalising anything, even if it makes sense and even if it means saving money.

I know they're desperate to cut public spending, but I doubt whether they would do something that goes so much against the grain for them. I also doubt whether they'd tee off their old school chums and financial backers to that extent.

Exactly...thats the point isn't it: in the coming cuts the ordinary public will take the pain, the usual suspects will make the gain!!

Your comment also explains why this government does not actually have a hope in hell of solving our deep rooted financial problems, its too much a prisoner of its own and its supporters vested interests to put into action the neccesary root and branch reconstruction of our economy.

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Brilliant idea.

Cancel Trident as well. That's another £100bn.

Nationalise the railways too. BR only needed a quarter of the subsidy the wonderfully efficient free-market companies need.

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Brilliant idea.

Cancel Trident as well. That's another £100bn.

Nationalise the railways too. BR only needed a quarter of the subsidy the wonderfully efficient free-market companies need.

Agreed: its always struck me as strange that we pay more to private companies than we did to BR..effectively we are subsiding to provide a very expensive and very sh*t service...a kind of double whammy screwing over!

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PFI was the worst idea on the planet.

Spend money so a private company can make mega profits out of us. Gordonomics at it's best. Let history show what a foolish idea it was.

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Guest happy?

PFI was the worst idea on the planet.

Spend money so a private company can make mega profits out of us. Gordonomics at it's best. Let history show what a foolish idea it was.

PFI was a Tory idea - John Major instituted it for various parts of London Underground and then schools and hospitals.

Like most of your thinking you never seem to let facts get in the way of your inane postings.

Whether it's a good or bad idea is another debate - but credit where it's due.

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PFI was the worst idea on the planet.

Spend money so a private company can make mega profits out of us. Gordonomics at it's best. Let history show what a foolish idea it was.

Seem to recall William Hague complaining New Labour had stolen the idea from the Tories but anyhow.

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PFI was a Tory idea - John Major instituted it for various parts of London Underground and then schools and hospitals.

Like most of your thinking you never seem to let facts get in the way of your inane postings.

Whether it's a good or bad idea is another debate - but credit where it's due.

OK

Whoever bought it in was crazy.

How much did JM do and how much did Gordon do?

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Boris Johhson just bought out the PFI company doing tube maintenance. So "Tube Lines" is now state owned again. He said the company involved were taking the p*ss.

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As to legality, as all these operations are governed by contracts, it would only be possible to nationalise them if you could find evidence of breach of contract. Having said that, a clever lawyer with a fine-toothed comb could probably find some.

But you have to face the fact that the Tories are innately opposed to nationalising anything, even if it makes sense and even if it means saving money.

I know they're desperate to cut public spending, but I doubt whether they would do something that goes so much against the grain for them. I also doubt whether they'd tee off their old school chums and financial backers to that extent.

Boris Johnson nationalised Tubelines, so it can happen.

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Boris Johhson just bought out the PFI company doing tube maintenance. So "Tube Lines" is now state owned again. He said the company involved were taking the p*ss.

Didn't the other one go bust and had to be rescued with £2bn tax-payers money?

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edit: reread the OP; my apologies, I assumed incorrectly this was a reference to a similar low-level meme already in the press; which is in turn similar to the kind of oinking which arises when the slops cease to refill the trough.

We'd save far more in the long run by dissolving them instead, I agree.

Not only the payments due - it'll also reset prices in the broader economy to be more inline with private sector demand

Edited by ParticleMan

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Wouldnt nationalizing them all put them under the control of the public sector unions?

Cant see how that would save money. Its why all parties are looking at privatizing more.

If they must do it wait under theyre like Northern rock and the shares are worthless.

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Wouldnt nationalizing them all put them under the control of the public sector unions?

Cant see how that would save money. Its why all parties are looking at privatizing more.

If they must do it wait under theyre like Northern rock and the shares are worthless.

Hiow on earth is that going to cost more than the £215 billion pound of PFI payments that have yet to be made?...and that was as of 2007, I would hazard a guess that its probably more now.

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Didn't the other one go bust and had to be rescued with £2bn tax-payers money?

Correct...not only is PFI appalling value to the taxpayer, its often not even good private sector business.

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It sounds like the sort of idea that would appeal to the Lib Dems. Might be worth firing off some letters and emails.

The Tories could then 1. play the "we have cut down on public spending / everyone must bear part of the pain" card and 2. blame the Lib Dems anyway.

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Wouldn't nationalisation be scuppered by the size of the penalties payable under any termination clauses?

No..you just rip everything up, the change of logic is:

1. PFI consists of vital infrastructre...road, rail, hospitals, schools.

2. There is no money to pay future PFI bills.

3. Vital infrastructre must be maintained as a matter of national security.

Bish bosh, no contract, no more bills.

My explanation is a bit simplistic but run it past a good QC and I'm sure it would have wings...

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Wouldn't nationalisation be scuppered by the size of the penalties payable under any termination clauses?

Depends how you teminate the contracts. I'm prepared to bet at least some could be terminated on the grounds of breach of contract - might be worth investing in the fees of the aforementioned clever lawyer with a fine-toothed comb and some experts in relevant fields e.g. build quality.

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My explanation is a bit simplistic but run it past a good QC and I'm sure it would have wings...

The private sector occasionally manages this situation by on the one hand becoming very interested in strict adherence to all contractual terms great and small, and on the other delaying payment beyond the point of ridiculousness.

The resulting collapse in cashflows can have the desired effect - of the contractor begging to be released.

Not that I'd suggest leeching leeches as being a particularly productive passtime, but there must be some out there skilled in this kind of war of attrition (and since the downturn in the building trades began to bite, newly available for hire, too).

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The private sector occasionally manages this situation by on the one hand becoming very interested in strict adherence to all contractual terms great and small, and on the other delaying payment beyond the point of ridiculousness.

The resulting collapse in cashflows can have the desired effect - of the contractor begging to be released.

Not that I'd suggest leeching leeches as being a particularly productive passtime, but there must be some out there skilled in this kind of war of attrition (and since the downturn in the building trades began to bite, newly available for hire, too).

You see...where theres a will, theres a way!

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It won't work.

All that PFI stuff is sitting on the balance sheets of British banks as assets.

Nationalise it and you screw their balance sheets up then they scream until we bail them out for 10 times the amount and award themselves a nice bonus.

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It won't work.

All that PFI stuff is sitting on the balance sheets of British banks as assets.

Nationalise it and you screw their balance sheets up then they scream until we bail them out for 10 times the amount and award themselves a nice bonus.

Ok..let them scream...make them write down their debts, break them up and if neccesary let them go to the wall: much as they would have us think otherwise they are not indispensable and the real economy will keep functioning without them.

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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