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Disconnect In Public Sector Job Losses

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This is an anecdotal but perhaps worth putting it here for a while as I know most of you aren't even aware we have an anecdotal sub-forum :rolleyes:

I was talking to a Headmistress of a Welsh school last night - in 2 weeks all her staff, 8 teachers, will be made redundant and her school closed.

Her staff are devastated because, simply, there is no hiring in schools across Wales by and large... the budgets for the hiring of temp teachers have been slashed. No money for repair and maintenance. In other words, the future is bleak for the teachers about to be fired.

Apparently, when teachers are hired now the aim is to take on as young and as new teachers as possible because they are simply cheaper than older, more experienced ones.

But this Headmistress told me something even more interesting. She has been visiting her new school in the past few weeks and she tells me that the staff in her new school are oblivious to any cuts or fear of cuts. In fact, she told me that her new staff have constantly been asking her if there will be a big end of term party before the Summer hols.

Isn't it interesting - such a disconnect between just two schools. In one school the staff are aware of the reality of the country, in the other their major angst is not having an end of term party.

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Hummmm ... my first thought was that the younger teachers' concerns over a big end of term party is possibly because they are using it with pupils to try and encourage them to work in the classroom.

You often get these kind of tactics from more inexperienced teachers.

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Hummmm ... my first thought was that the younger teachers' concerns over a big end of term party is possibly because they are using it with pupils to try and encourage them to work in the classroom.

You often get these kind of tactics from more inexperienced teachers.

No, I should have said that she told me they were referring to a staff party.

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There was a question about temp teacher costs on that FOI site the other week - just for Oldham and tbh we need to stop employing temp teachers. the bill is insane.

We need to deal with reasons why we need so many.

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I posted this not to have a go at teachers but to just point out the disconnect that seems to exist between people in the same profession in the same public sector organisation.

Some aware of the mess of the economy, others oblivious to it. How much is this replicated across the UK?

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I don't think it is at all interesting. I also don't understand why you think that people should be living in fear. Isn't that a terrible thing to wish on people? I don't think its at all surprising, I think it might be possible there might be someone in the private sector, somewhere in the western world, who wants a new company car or perhaps thinks they need a new laptop. Does this mean the entire capitalist world is in a state of "disconnect"? Perhaps I haven't understood your point.

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I don't think it is at all interesting. I also don't understand why you think that people should be living in fear. Isn't that a terrible thing to wish on people? I don't think its at all surprising, I think it might be possible there might be someone in the private sector, somewhere in the western world, who wants a new company car or perhaps thinks they need a new laptop. Does this mean the entire capitalist world is in a state of "disconnect"? Perhaps I haven't understood your point.

I don't know where you got that impression from? Made it up in your own mind did you?

I don't think or wish that anyone lives in fear.

How on earth you got that from my post is beyond me?

Perhaps you need to ask yourself how your mind works?

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When the country moves from whatever the real numbers are say 25% of the working age population unemployed in one form or another.. to 26% of the working age population unemployed, over a year. That is only 1% of the population that takes the hit during that year. And maybe only 2% of the population who feels threatened that their job/business is in danger.

Over time this change can be quite dramatic, like 1% a year rise would mean 35% of the working age population unemployed in one form or another in 2020. But at any one time a very small percentage of the population would feel under threat.

It also means the concerns of the few, say the teachers at this small school looking at their careers being ended.. get very little attention compared to the concerns of the many. Like stock market prices or housing prices or the rate of inflation.

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There may be more to the 'end of term' party than just a free piss up for the staff at the taxpayer's expense.

In some schools it is quite common to end the year with a party for the kids and award ceremony etc If this is the case the teachers and kids are probably used to this happening every year and look forward to it. The teachers will have been using the end of term party as a motivational tool for the kids for months and if rumours have gotten round that it is to be cancelled the teachers will have getting it the neck from upset kids who only handed in their coursework on time for the promise of free sweeties.

One school I had seen took this to a whole week, fancy dress parties, sports day, all the teachers doing something special for the kids, disco's in the evening for each year etc etc

So it may actually be getting raised as a concern because the teachers don't want to disapoint the kids, rather than the teachers are upset at the idea their taxpayer funded champagne and foie gras soiree might be under threat.

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if this is the case that there are loads of exerienced ready trained teachers why are there constant adverts on the tv for new teachers.... shirly its wasted money?

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I don't know where you got that impression from? Made it up in your own mind did you?

I don't think or wish that anyone lives in fear.

How on earth you got that from my post is beyond me?

Perhaps you need to ask yourself how your mind works?

She has been visiting her new school in the past few weeks and she tells me that the staff in her new school are oblivious to any cuts or fear of cuts. In fact, she told me that her new staff have constantly been asking her if there will be a big end of term party before the Summer hols.

So, what do you expect them to do? Should they be "devastated" like their colleagues up the road or merely fearful? Life goes on you know.

Edited by Cogs

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if this is the case that there are loads of exerienced ready trained teachers why are there constant adverts on the tv for new teachers.... shirly its wasted money?

How can you say a subsidy to our friends the Murdochs is wasted money!?

We like filthy rich people in this country, try to remember that.

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if this is the case that there are loads of exerienced ready trained teachers why are there constant adverts on the tv for new teachers.... shirly its wasted money?

They don't hang around. Turns out whatever the HPC's army of computer programmers say, real teachers find it a job that is easy to give up. Teacher recruitment is akin to a bucket with a hole in, one way to keep it filled is to keep the taps jammed on the whole time.

Edited by Cogs

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So, what do you expect them to do? Should they be "devastated" like their colleagues up the road or merely fearful? Life goes on you know.

Sure life goes on. But when your pot of money is the same as the one that resulted in a school down the road closing, it seems a pretty dumb question to ask if you are still going to have a jolly. Frankly, if the school did and I was a teacher there, I would question the decision myself as being inappropriate and downright dodgy management.

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No, I should have said that she told me they were referring to a staff party.

In 20 years working in the NHS I have never had a staff party - only ones I have paid for. I have never received a bonus. I have never been fortunate enough to benefit from performance related pay. My starting salary was approximately 60% of my peers who went to work in the private sector. I have a decent pension scheme and have received inflationary pay rises when appropriate. Slow, relatively poorly paid, but steady.

Financial services employees enjoyed a 9% pay rise in a single month in May 2010. This crisis was caused by greed in the private sector, primarily banks. I do not know of any nurses who overleveraged on sub-prime chemotherapy collateral.

I cannot understand why so much anger is directed at NHS workers. Listen carefully...direct your anger at BANKS. They starved poor nations by gambling on food futures. They caused the biggest recession since the 1930's. You will lose your homes and jobs in a recession caused by reckless risks taken by BANKS. They are earning massive bonuses again. Governments will not act to stop this happening.

Last week an acquaintance who works at RBS had a corporate party with clients to watch the world cup. RBS had their usual hospitality tent at Wimbledon. I was at work during these events treating critically ill patients.

So stop whinging about NHS workers and get on to your government about BANKS, who were the cause of this crisis and will likely be the cause of the next.

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In 20 years working in the NHS I have never had a staff party - only ones I have paid for. I have never received a bonus. I have never been fortunate enough to benefit from performance related pay. My starting salary was approximately 60% of my peers who went to work in the private sector. I have a decent pension scheme and have received inflationary pay rises when appropriate. Slow, relatively poorly paid, but steady.

Financial services employees enjoyed a 9% pay rise in a single month in May 2010. This crisis was caused by greed in the private sector, primarily banks. I do not know of any nurses who overleveraged on sub-prime chemotherapy collateral.

I cannot understand why so much anger is directed at NHS workers. Listen carefully...direct your anger at BANKS. They starved poor nations by gambling on food futures. They caused the biggest recession since the 1930's. You will lose your homes and jobs in a recession caused by reckless risks taken by BANKS. They are earning massive bonuses again. Governments will not act to stop this happening.

Last week an acquaintance who works at RBS had a corporate party with clients to watch the world cup. RBS had their usual hospitality tent at Wimbledon. I was at work during these events treating critically ill patients.

So stop whinging about NHS workers and get on to your government about BANKS, who were the cause of this crisis and will likely be the cause of the next.

+1

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There may be more to the 'end of term' party than just a free piss up for the staff at the taxpayer's expense.

In some schools it is quite common to end the year with a party for the kids and award ceremony etc If this is the case the teachers and kids are probably used to this happening every year and look forward to it. The teachers will have been using the end of term party as a motivational tool for the kids for months and if rumours have gotten round that it is to be cancelled the teachers will have getting it the neck from upset kids who only handed in their coursework on time for the promise of free sweeties.

One school I had seen took this to a whole week, fancy dress parties, sports day, all the teachers doing something special for the kids, disco's in the evening for each year etc etc

So it may actually be getting raised as a concern because the teachers don't want to disapoint the kids, rather than the teachers are upset at the idea their taxpayer funded champagne and foie gras soiree might be under threat.

Things have changed if kids look forward to "awards" day

When I was at school this was dull, dull, dull

tim

W

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So stop whinging about NHS workers and get on to your government about BANKS, who were the cause of this crisis and will likely be the cause of the next.

That's a bit like taking a p*ss in the punch bowl, then when someone complains you point your finger at the guy who earlier on took a dump in it :)

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They don't hang around. Turns out whatever the HPC's army of computer programmers say, real teachers find it a job that is easy to give up. Teacher recruitment is akin to a bucket with a hole in, one way to keep it filled is to keep the taps jammed on the whole time.

My sister found it so "easy" that she gave it up after her TT and on graduation looked for an "education" job that didn't require standing in front of a class each day.

tim

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In 20 years working in the NHS I have never had a staff party - only ones I have paid for. I have never received a bonus. I have never been fortunate enough to benefit from performance related pay. My starting salary was approximately 60% of my peers who went to work in the private sector. I have a decent pension scheme and have received inflationary pay rises when appropriate. Slow, relatively poorly paid, but steady.

Financial services employees enjoyed a 9% pay rise in a single month in May 2010. This crisis was caused by greed in the private sector, primarily banks. I do not know of any nurses who overleveraged on sub-prime chemotherapy collateral.

I cannot understand why so much anger is directed at NHS workers. Listen carefully...direct your anger at BANKS. They starved poor nations by gambling on food futures. They caused the biggest recession since the 1930's. You will lose your homes and jobs in a recession caused by reckless risks taken by BANKS. They are earning massive bonuses again. Governments will not act to stop this happening.

Last week an acquaintance who works at RBS had a corporate party with clients to watch the world cup. RBS had their usual hospitality tent at Wimbledon. I was at work during these events treating critically ill patients.

So stop whinging about NHS workers and get on to your government about BANKS, who were the cause of this crisis and will likely be the cause of the next.

It is fascinating to see so many on here cheering as the infrastructure of their own civil society goes up in flames- maybe they find the spectacle itself entertaining. I have never worked in the public sector and some of the excesses do piss me off- especially the 'I'm worth it' crowd at the top end of management .

But the reality is that the Banksters will get their money while our children's education's get shredded- and no amount of daily mail propaganda will convince me that this a fair outcome.

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There certainly does seem to be complacency amongst those in the public sector who think they're safe because they work in 'key worker' type roles.

Just because the country needs teachers, police, doctors and nurses doesn't automatically mean it can therefore afford them.

Silly comments about bankers/banksters etc. are neither here nor there really and plenty in the above roles rode the HPI train, whilst the bankers stoked boiler, to their own advantage and without complaint at the time.

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In 20 years working in the NHS I have never had a staff party - only ones I have paid for. I have never received a bonus. I have never been fortunate enough to benefit from performance related pay. My starting salary was approximately 60% of my peers who went to work in the private sector. I have a decent pension scheme and have received inflationary pay rises when appropriate. Slow, relatively poorly paid, but steady.

Financial services employees enjoyed a 9% pay rise in a single month in May 2010. This crisis was caused by greed in the private sector, primarily banks. I do not know of any nurses who overleveraged on sub-prime chemotherapy collateral.

I cannot understand why so much anger is directed at NHS workers. Listen carefully...direct your anger at BANKS. They starved poor nations by gambling on food futures. They caused the biggest recession since the 1930's. You will lose your homes and jobs in a recession caused by reckless risks taken by BANKS. They are earning massive bonuses again. Governments will not act to stop this happening.

Last week an acquaintance who works at RBS had a corporate party with clients to watch the world cup. RBS had their usual hospitality tent at Wimbledon. I was at work during these events treating critically ill patients.

So stop whinging about NHS workers and get on to your government about BANKS, who were the cause of this crisis and will likely be the cause of the next.

Whilst I do believe the public sector has become somewhat bloated and needs trimming down, I have to agree with this post: sometimes I find the degree of anger directed at the public sector hard to understand when you consider that we are actually in this mess as a result of the economic manipulation, cheating, down right fraud and theiving of our banking and finance classes and their espousal of destructive, unsustainable globalisation policies:if all our jobs had not been arbitraged to the cheapest possible country there never would have been any need to grow the public sector to such large proportions.

Yes, we have to live with in our means so, yes we need to cut public spending..but remember the real villain of this piece is not

the public sector, it really IS the banking class: my fear is that if we don't realise that the money saved as our taxes are increased

and our services cut will simply be used to finance Banking Bailout 2.

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Just because the country needs teachers, police, doctors and nurses doesn't automatically mean it can therefore afford them.

Indeed. This is what many people simply do not understand. We may want to have lots of nurses, doctors etc etc but WE CAN'T AFFORD THEM.

The country is nigh-on a trillion in debt and has an enormous buget problem.

There is no money.

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In 20 years working in the NHS I have never had a staff party - only ones I have paid for. I have never received a bonus. I have never been fortunate enough to benefit from performance related pay. My starting salary was approximately 60% of my peers who went to work in the private sector. I have a decent pension scheme and have received inflationary pay rises when appropriate. Slow, relatively poorly paid, but steady.

Financial services employees enjoyed a 9% pay rise in a single month in May 2010. This crisis was caused by greed in the private sector, primarily banks. I do not know of any nurses who overleveraged on sub-prime chemotherapy collateral.

I cannot understand why so much anger is directed at NHS workers. Listen carefully...direct your anger at BANKS. They starved poor nations by gambling on food futures. They caused the biggest recession since the 1930's. You will lose your homes and jobs in a recession caused by reckless risks taken by BANKS. They are earning massive bonuses again. Governments will not act to stop this happening.

Last week an acquaintance who works at RBS had a corporate party with clients to watch the world cup. RBS had their usual hospitality tent at Wimbledon. I was at work during these events treating critically ill patients.

So stop whinging about NHS workers and get on to your government about BANKS, who were the cause of this crisis and will likely be the cause of the next.

That's a poor analysis. Why do public sector types keep contrasting themselves with the bankers? You are two sides of the same coin - state licensed bankers encourage investors to lend to government - government bails out bankers in order to keep up the ridiculous borrowing. Enough.

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That's a poor analysis. Why do public sector types keep contrasting themselves with the bankers? You are two sides of the same coin - state licensed bankers encourage investors to lend to government - government bails out bankers in order to keep up the ridiculous borrowing. Enough.

because investment bankers are representative of the whole private sector. obviously.

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  • 149 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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