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Spain: It's The Imf

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/7866922/Spain-may-need-financial-rescue-says-Merrill.html

Spain may need financial rescue, says Merrill

Spain's debt crisis may force the country to tap the EU-IMF rescue fund over the next two to three months and set off a political storm, according a confidential report by the Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Published: 5:30AM BST 02 Jul 2010

"There is a serious risk that Spain have to make use of Europe's €750bn (£618bn) aid packet," said the document, obtained by Spanish newspaper Expansion. The bank declined to comment.

The report said it was not yet clear whether weaker states on the periphery of the eurozone will be able to raise money to fund their debt needs at viable rates on the global markets. Any request for a bail-out by Spain would be extremely controversial, potentially bringing down the government.

The bank said it was possible that Italy would also require a rescue or that there would be a total divorce between Germany and France, though these were viewed as "extremely unlikely" outcomes.

Spain's premier Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero yesterday proclaimed "his full confidence in the strength and solvency" of the country after Moody's threatened to downgrade Spanish debt by up to two notches on the grounds that fiscal austerity would undercut growth. Moody's then twisted the knife deeper, cutting ratings on five Spanish regions.

Spain's treasury sold €3.5bn of five-year debt successfully, but at a stiff rate of 6.6pc.

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If it goes... whatever it is... and there is a crisis... and panic... will that be the time to take advantage and get in there with a really low offer on a house... I suppose the crisis would need to be big enough to scare people.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I think HIPs actually stopped a flood of properties to the market when Lehmans went under... people demanding ludicrous asking prices for houses now but who would or could not fork out for a HIP.

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http://www.telegraph...ys-Merrill.html

Spain may need financial rescue, says Merrill

Spain's debt crisis may force the country to tap the EU-IMF rescue fund over the next two to three months and set off a political storm, according a confidential report by the Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Published: 5:30AM BST 02 Jul 2010

:lol:

This is an obsession! I think AEP needs to see a doctor about this EU-phobia.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/7866922/Spain-may-need-financial-rescue-says-Merrill.html

Spain may need financial rescue, says Merrill

Spain's debt crisis may force the country to tap the EU-IMF rescue fund over the next two to three months and set off a political storm, according a confidential report by the Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Published: 5:30AM BST 02 Jul 2010

Thought I suspect if we come to that, Merill Lynch Bank Of America would be the next that needs to be rescued...

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according to some economy spiel from HL I just received - Spain is the country that has defaulted the most times thru history - 6 times in 19th century and 7 times in previous centuries

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And I think it was all the Latin American silver and gold what did it, if there is a lesson in there somewhere.

according to some economy spiel from HL I just received - Spain is the country that has defaulted the most times thru history - 6 times in 19th century and 7 times in previous centuries

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If it goes... whatever it is... and there is a crisis... and panic... will that be the time to take advantage and get in there with a really low offer on a house... I suppose the crisis would need to be big enough to scare people.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I think HIPs actually stopped a flood of properties to the market when Lehmans went under... people demanding ludicrous asking prices for houses now but who would or could not fork out for a HIP.

Make a really low offer !!!

What with, is that fiat money in your pocket ?

If the Euro goes, it will take GBP the CHF and the Krone of all flavours with it. When your biggest trading partners goes on on the rocks, it not long until were clinging on.

The best is yet to come.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/7866922/Spain-may-need-financial-rescue-says-Merrill.html

Spain may need financial rescue, says Merrill

Spain's debt crisis may force the country to tap the EU-IMF rescue fund over the next two to three months and set off a political storm, according a confidential report by the Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Published: 5:30AM BST 02 Jul 2010

The weather is definitely turning gazpacho! The Spanish have no chance of avoiding the IMF. It will all winkle itself out over the coming months. The bond markets are just circling the PIGS like piranhas awaiting dinner.

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If it goes... whatever it is... and there is a crisis... and panic... will that be the time to take advantage and get in there with a really low offer on a house... I suppose the crisis would need to be big enough to scare people.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I think HIPs actually stopped a flood of properties to the market when Lehmans went under... people demanding ludicrous asking prices for houses now but who would or could not fork out for a HIP.

But you would still be relying on the vendor having any idea that there could be a relation to those 'silly profligate Spanish' hitting problems and the fact that their house is worth anything less than its 2007 peak.

Remember houseprices only ever go up, we have been told this for a long time and it is very deeply ingrained nobody will want to sell 'at a loss'.

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Make a really low offer !!!

What with, is that fiat money in your pocket ?

If the Euro goes, it will take GBP the CHF and the Krone of all flavours with it. When your biggest trading partners goes on on the rocks, it not long until were clinging on.

The best is yet to come.

Yes, I had forgotten about that. Death of the Euro. Hmm, who knows?

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If it goes... whatever it is... and there is a crisis... and panic... will that be the time to take advantage and get in there with a really low offer on a house... I suppose the crisis would need to be big enough to scare people.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I think HIPs actually stopped a flood of properties to the market when Lehmans went under... people demanding ludicrous asking prices for houses now but who would or could not fork out for a HIP.

I think most OOs would wait till the bailiffs kcik the door in before leaving - it's their home.

LLs wouldn't let a HIP get in the way of selling if they needed to.

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If it goes... whatever it is... and there is a crisis... and panic... will that be the time to take advantage and get in there with a really low offer on a house... I suppose the crisis would need to be big enough to scare people.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I think HIPs actually stopped a flood of properties to the market when Lehmans went under... people demanding ludicrous asking prices for houses now but who would or could not fork out for a HIP.

Yes - absolutely. I was buying a place in the Canaries early this year. Agreed a price with the agent and sent a deposit to a solicitor. The developer spelt my name wrong on the contract, so I sent it back. The solicitor wanted to pass the money on to same developer, but I insisted they held onto it. Then things stated to look bad for Spain, so I pulled the plug on it and got my money back home.

Since then the pound has moved up to 1.23 E. This would save me 20K if I bought again now.

But, I've decided to just wait a while. When it goes tilts up, there's a good chance that Spain will have to leave the Euro. Their new currency will go through the floor. I reckon there will be a window of opportunity soon, where a stupid offer will get you a place where the sun always shines, fantastic beaches etc etc. If they stay with the Euro, there will be some desperate sellers.

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Guest spp

Spain may need financial rescue, says Merrill

Understatement of the year!

PRINTY PRINTY BEN! :lol:

Edited by spp

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:lol:

This is an obsession! I think AEP needs to see a doctor about this EU-phobia.

I have to agree. Whilst I do share some of his scepticism, he really does seem to have taken it to true OCD levels.

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Yes - absolutely. I was buying a place in the Canaries early this year. Agreed a price with the agent and sent a deposit to a solicitor. The developer spelt my name wrong on the contract, so I sent it back. The solicitor wanted to pass the money on to same developer, but I insisted they held onto it. Then things stated to look bad for Spain, so I pulled the plug on it and got my money back home.

Since then the pound has moved up to 1.23 E. This would save me 20K if I bought again now.

But, I've decided to just wait a while. When it goes tilts up, there's a good chance that Spain will have to leave the Euro. Their new currency will go through the floor. I reckon there will be a window of opportunity soon, where a stupid offer will get you a place where the sun always shines, fantastic beaches etc etc. If they stay with the Euro, there will be some desperate sellers.

I have just sold my appt in Mallorca for a knock down price ,The fixed cost are getting higher and higher.(2000 euro pa for a two bed apt )i get the impression the local government are out to screw foreign owners to pay to give th local unemployed jobs,the number of visitors is well down ,the place is on its ****,A local business mans take on the economy he said, The money no longer runs.

Edited by barrabus

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/7866922/Spain-may-need-financial-rescue-says-Merrill.html

Spain may need financial rescue, says Merrill

Spain's debt crisis may force the country to tap the EU-IMF rescue fund over the next two to three months and set off a political storm, according a confidential report by the Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Published: 5:30AM BST 02 Jul 2010

What a load of utter cockwash, lets look at some more salient facts:

1. The article is written by Evans -Pritchard, it is a proven fact that every word this man utters issues not from his mouth

but his rectum.

2. The article is published in the Dialy Telegraph one of Fleet Street's most rug-chewing, foaming at the mouth, goose-stepping

right wing rags which has been trumpeting the imminent demise of all things European on a daily basis for the last 30 years.

3. The report is written by a bunch of snot-gobbling baby eating theiving robbing fraudulent globalisation-supporting immmigration-loving economy destroying American bankster scum who probably have massive short positions on Spanish debt and are engaged in their usual business of market manipulation.

Edited by Lucifer

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What a load of utter cockwash, lets look at some more salient facts:

1. The article is written by Evans -Pritchard, it is a proven fact that every word this man utters issues not from his mouth

but his rectum.

2. The article is published in the Dialy Telegraph one of Fleet Street's most rug-chewing, foaming at the mouth, goose-stepping

right wing rags which has been trumpeting the imminent demise of all things European on a daily basis for the last 30 years.

3. The report is written by a bunch of snot-gobbling baby eating theiving robbing fraudulent globalisation-supporting immmigration-loving economy destroying American bankster scum who probably have massive short positions on Spanish debt and are engaged in their usual business of market manipulation.

So Spain is absolutely fine and it's all contained? Yay!!!! :lol:

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But, I've decided to just wait a while. When it goes tilts up, there's a good chance that Spain will have to leave the Euro. Their new currency will go through the floor. I reckon there will be a window of opportunity soon, where a stupid offer will get you a place where the sun always shines, fantastic beaches etc etc. If they stay with the Euro, there will be some desperate sellers.

Very optimistic.

The Spanish housing bubble burst in 2006. Unlike the UK a lot of property there has dropped in price 30% - 40%. Some owners/developers have been blind to it all and are unwilling to drop their prices too much but generally prices are very negotiable and a lot lower.

The problem was that the pound dropping against the Euro meant that in real terms there was little difference for UK buyers at €1.05 to £1 even with 30-40% off.

So at €1.20 Mum and Dad went out there last week and found it pretty confusing. Some stuff was for sale in £'s, some in Euro's and a few of the more popular developments had already hiked their prices by 15% since April when they were last out there. Rather than finding prices lower they found prices rising!!!

The agents they spoke to (the ones that are still left after the past 5 years) were pretty upbeat. They felt that the market was picking up again as the Euro grew weaker. The low point for them was Autumn 2009 when pensioners were having to leave and tourists were finding it too expensive to visit. They felt that was the bottom of the market and that from there things were only heading in one direction. Any Spanish crisis would just increase demand for coastal property as the euro weakened and the cost of living in Spain lowered, therefore making it more attractive to British Buyers.

There has been a huge build up of people retiring over the past 3 years looking to move to Spain but just waiting for the right time. At Euro/£ parity it was not really an option but I have to say at 1.20-1.25 people like my Mum and Dad are starting to take a look.

We have a huge amount of baby boomers coming to retirement and those with decent pensions are going to be looking to move abroad or at least have a little bolt hole for the Winter 2 - 3 hours fly time away. The general feeling that the euro bubble is deflating and the currency getting weaker is attracting buyers to the market not deterring them.

One good thing for Spain to come out of this is that a load of fluff has been blown out of the market. Those Polaris World developments have stopped and the surplus of around 1 million properties should mean that the building will remain on pause for at least another 5 years.

Just to add that this is coastal property I am talking about, I have no idea what will happen to property for the Spanish. Just like a flat in Chelsea is £45 million and one in Reading is £150k, they are 2 very different Worlds, completely unrelated in my opinion. And can I also add that I dont think prices are going up in Spain, I just dont think that prices are going to crash in the way we thought. The past 4 years have proven just that.

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So Spain is absolutely fine and it's all contained? Yay!!!! :lol:

No, Spain is obviously not OK...but if you choose to believe a load of hysterical nonsense written by an anti-EU loony with the IQ

of toothbrush based on a report written by a bunch of robbing bankers with huge vested interests then you are being naive. :)

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I have just sold my appt in Mallorca for a knock down price ,The fixed cost are getting higher and higher.(2000 euro pa for a two bed apt )i get the impression the local government are out to screw foreign owners to pay to give th local unemployed jobs,the number of visitors is well down ,the place is on its ****,A local business mans take on the economy he said, The money no longer runs.

I think you've nailed it there. Fleecing ex-pats who are perceived to be affluent to give the money to umemployed locals is a sure-fire vote winner. And the more people that quit like you do, the more they will bleed those who remain.

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I have just sold my appt in Mallorca for a knock down price ,The fixed cost are getting higher and higher.(2000 euro pa for a two bed apt )i get the impression the local government are out to screw foreign owners to pay to give th local unemployed jobs,the number of visitors is well down ,the place is on its ****,A local business mans take on the economy he said, The money no longer runs.

Thats interesting. Can you elaborate at all. I know people with apartments in Mallorca who pay only 75 euros per annum in rates and a tax which is 0.1% of escaturia value (around 150 Euros) per annum. Unless your apartment is worth €2million+ it would be difficult to see how you are paying €2000 to the local government. That is unless you were adding in a community charge which under Spanish law is set only by the owners themselves and none of this goes to local government??

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I think you've nailed it there. Fleecing ex-pats who are perceived to be affluent to give the money to umemployed locals is a sure-fire vote winner. And the more people that quit like you do, the more they will bleed those who remain.

Absolute rubbish, in fact quite the opposite. Zapatero realised a few years ago that the economy was heavily reliant on attracting foreign buyers to the costas. As a result he has dropped capital gains tax quite substantially (down from 35% to 15%) for foreign sellers (although his hand was slightly forced by the EU) and he has just scrapped the rental tax which every Spanish holiday home owner had to pay. He has forced local authoritoes to reduce the rates charged on 2nd homes and he has brought in stricter rules that mean the process of buying a home as a non Spanish resident is much smoother and less open to corruption.

It would be suicidal for Zapatero to start distracting more overseas buyers at a time when he needs to do quite the opposite to even start turning the economy around.

Another small factor to take into account is the increase in UK Capital Gains to 28% especially when it is still only 15% in Spain. I'm not sure this will make a big difference now but may influence property investment in the future.

Edited by Einstein71

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  • 146 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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