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Sour Mash

Brits Having Less Kids, Marrying Later, Spending More Money On Housing.

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having the choice to do so is better, yes.

Good point , the choice is not there anymore .

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Problem is all the wrong sort of people are having babies, e.g. chavs, under-class, council house dwellers etc.

And they're having them a lot sooner too.

An interesting example of the basic law of economics in action: people respond rationally to incentives.

Offer unskilled females the choice between working long hours for little reward or having children and picking up a small fortune in benefits and lo and behold they choose the latter.

Likewise offer a similar choice to skilled females and you end up with the exact opposite.

The logical conclusion of this policy: skilled/productive workers will become extinct and the UK population will consist entirely of the semi-ferral offspring of former benefit claimants.

i.e. somalia without the work ethic.

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An interesting example of the basic law of economics in action: people respond rationally to incentives.

Offer unskilled females the choice between working long hours for little reward or having children and picking up a small fortune in benefits and lo and behold they choose the latter.

Likewise offer a similar choice to skilled females and you end up with the exact opposite.

The logical conclusion of this policy: skilled/productive workers will become extinct and the UK population will consist entirely of the semi-ferral offspring of former benefit claimants.

i.e. somalia without the work ethic.

Of course, the feckless have no problem in flinging themselves into the arms of the state whilst the sensible may put off having kids until it's financially viable. Unfortunately our economy is so messed up that day may never come, so we'll eventually end up as a nation of chavs who fight over ever diminshing welfare handouts.

After the housing market the benefits system is the biggest obstacle to reviving the nation's fortunes. They need to stop paying people to be poor.

Edited by Chef

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After the housing market the benefits system is the biggest obstacle to reviving the nation's fortunes. They need to stop paying people to be poor.

Correction

After the Bankers, the landowners, the planing department's in carhoots with the landowners, the top civil servants, the multi national and national companies who want to do bussiness here but hire cheap labour abroad, the self serving M.P.'s and a few others that cream everything the biggest obstacle to reviving the nation's fortunes is the benefits system.

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Less kids, marry later, spend less on housing .... or is it the average being pushed by people not having kids, and not getting married if you do you divorce before kids?

Out of 3 brothers I am the only one who married yet choose not to have children. My brothers have never had a relationship worthy of bring home to show mum, both still living at home with no concept of buying or renting salaries too low. What are the odds this would have been the outcome in the 70's.

If I Imagine being told this would be a fact in the mid 80's in my teens I am sure I would think what a strange, dark, hollow place we have created for ourselves.

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Overpriced houses do have a big impact, not denying that.

I am just saying that I think that social attitudes - especially among blokes - in terms of keenness to jump into the "grown up" responsibility of marriage, fatherhood etc has changed a LOT in recent years, and I don't think this is related to the price of houses. If it was, you would have expected to see the marriage and birthrate drop in the late 80s (HPI boom) and then rise a lot in the early-mid 1990s (when houses were proportionately cheaper than for decades). But you don't see this at all. There has been a long and steady rise in "age of first kid" and "age at marriage" and a similar fall in "average number of kids per family" for a long while. Any rise in UK birthrates is pretty much down to recent immigrants, who stick to their "traditional family values" involving younger marriage / mum stays at home / more children.

If guys know that they can play around, go out with someone for a while, go elsewhere, go back, etc, then one of the big reasons for marrying (regular sex - waits for humorous comments on this one!) is removed.

People are setting too high a standard for themselves if they feel that they have to be very well off, and have everything in place, before having kids. Look back: 50 years ago did most people insist on owning a 3 bed house etc before they had kids? Not in most cases...... people just got on with it, and managed.

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Less kids, marry later, spend less on housing .... or is it the average being pushed by people not having kids, and not getting married if you do you divorce before kids?

Out of 3 brothers I am the only one who married yet choose not to have children. My brothers have never had a relationship worthy of bring home to show mum, both still living at home with no concept of buying or renting salaries too low. What are the odds this would have been the outcome in the 70's.

If I Imagine being told this would be a fact in the mid 80's in my teens I am sure I would think what a strange, dark, hollow place we have created for ourselves.

But the UK birth rate & Total fertility rate is now higher than that in the 1970's :rolleyes: check the statistics. Always surprises me on HPC how out of touch people are with demographic trends.....

Back in the 1980's your brothers, as singletons, would have had more chance in getting Local Authority housing, in the 1980's there was a surplus, even in London, my older brother was able to get a 'hard to let" flat on an Inner London council estate as nobody wanted to live in it! It was grotty mind but it was in Wapping

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But the UK birth rate & Total fertility rate is now higher than that in the 1970's :rolleyes: check the statistics.

'There are lies, damn lies, and statistics' :)

If this is the golden truth where are my 1.92 kids, where is my best mates kids, my best man's kids. Because 1.92 had no relation to reality much like the boiled down essence of the meaning of life .....'42'.

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But the UK birth rate & Total fertility rate is now higher than that in the 1970's

Is this excluding all the immigrants etc (who don't really count)?

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Is this excluding all the immigrants etc (who don't really count)?

Well if they are resident in the UK then they count surely? I was n't trying to make a point about immigration

Cold facts are, that the UK fertility rate last year was 1.96, it has dropped slightly this year perhaps as a side effect of the credit crunch kicking in (there does appear to be a correlation between birth rates and strength of an economy or supply of credit/increased debt?) but it is still higher than the 1970's. UK fertility rate in 1976 was 1.7. It is one of New Labour's biggest and perhaps deliberate legacies :rolleyes:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/27/population-growth-uk-birth-rate-immigration

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/frc0607.pdf

Edited by skomer

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Is this excluding all the immigrants etc (who don't really count)?

I found this about live births in London:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Atr4jSeyWzlydGZqMFlIcWM0U09Hd3B0RTlZSFF5bEE&gid=1

The boroughs with the most births are Newham, Barking & Dagenham and Brent. Think that answers your question.

Edited by Meat Puppet

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  • 195 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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