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slowjoe

England Team Sabotaged According To Souness

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Graeme Souness claims on RTE that the England team was predictably awful due to misguided altitude camps.

Video is at

It would explain the extremely flat performances across the whole team in South Africa.

I can forsee a lynch-mob forming for the medical team at the FA....

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Graeme Souness claims on RTE that the England team was predictably awful due to misguided altitude camps.

Video is at

It would explain the extremely flat performances across the whole team in South Africa.

I can forsee a lynch-mob forming for the medical team at the FA....

Yeah, there was Professor Clever from Smart@rse University Cambridge saying the same thing on Radio 4 this morning. Apparently, they did their altitude training and then played at sea level and their blood was all sludgey and made them feel tired.

Maybe they're all just a bunch of w@nkers

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Graeme Souness claims on RTE that the England team was predictably awful due to misguided altitude camps.

Video is at

It would explain the extremely flat performances across the whole team in South Africa.

I can forsee a lynch-mob forming for the medical team at the FA....

Reminds of Eddie Izzard running several marathons, losing energy and some specialists advising him to force down a big plate of potatoes for energy that night... following day he was very ill... it seemed obvious to me his exhausted body would become more exhausted digesting loads of potatoes...

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Yeah, there was Professor Clever from Smart@rse University Cambridge saying the same thing on Radio 4 this morning. Apparently, they did their altitude training and then played at sea level and their blood was all sludgey and made them feel tired.

Maybe they're all just a bunch of w@nkers

Interesting, such a change in blood gases would affect moods also?

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Yeah, there was Professor Clever from Smart@rse University Cambridge saying the same thing on Radio 4 this morning. Apparently, they did their altitude training and then played at sea level and their blood was all sludgey and made them feel tired.

Maybe they're all just a bunch of w@nkers

That sounds bullcrap tbh.

If you have ever spent a few days on a mountain, (high alpine height and over) when you come down to sea level you feel amazing, hyperactive.

The thinner air at altitude means less oxygen and your body produces more red blood cells to compensate. When you go back down to sea level until your body can get rid of the extra cells you are buzzing, loads of energy from the excess oxygen.

That is why athletes do altitude training.

Some long distance runners cheat by removing a pint of their own blood a month before the Olympics and freezing it, then reinjecting it the day before the race. They get a performance boost but it is undetectable as no drugs are being used.

Using altitude training as an excuse from being slugish is like trying to say the reason you fell asleep is because of all the caffeine in the 10 cans of red bull you just drank.

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Exactly what part of altitude training turns a 'team' into a set of disparate players so intent on being the one to score a goal* that none wants to defend, repeatedly leaving the goalie the only person in England's half of the pitch**?

*And despite packing 10 men into the German half, totally incapable of working together to score a goal in the second half.

** Upon which, Germany only had to break out to score repeatedly with barely a challenge.

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Using altitude training as an excuse from being slugish is like trying to say the reason you fell asleep is because of all the caffeine in the 10 cans of red bull you just drank.

having said that - get a bunch of ageing players to play a full season of top-flight football, then instead of letting them recover take them up to where the air is thin for 6 weeks for some training.

Something similar with Italy and France. Ageing teams, full season, don't let them recover instead make them train in low-oxygen air.

Germany have younger players. Spain too is a younger team. May have recovered more easily after a full season.

South America as a continent has much higher mean living altitudes to Europe - Europe is essentially a bunch of connected pensinsulas so closer to sea level, Paris is only at 100ft above sea level for example, as are most major cities - on big rivers or coasts across europe. S.America is more 'continental' in geographic terms and less maritime like Europe is, more people live at higher altitude and grow up from babies. This tells me that south american players are probably simply adapted from their childhoods to altitude - interesting that the only English Premiership players to shine have been Tevez and Robinho... (that right?)

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Exactly what part of altitude training turns a 'team' into a set of disparate players so intent on being the one to score a goal* that none wants to defend, repeatedly leaving the goalie the only person in England's half of the pitch**?

the bit that makes them mentally fatigued

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Guest The Relaxation Suite

Yeah, there was Professor Clever from Smart@rse University Cambridge saying the same thing on Radio 4 this morning. Apparently, they did their altitude training and then played at sea level and their blood was all sludgey and made them feel tired.

Maybe they're all just a bunch of w@nkers

Training at altitude and then competing at sea level is an old trick to make you fitter because you get used to working much harder due to the thinner oxygen. Another trick some sportsmen use sometimes is training with weights on their backs and then when the real thing is on they are much lighter.

My theory is that they are a buch of lazy, arrogant, talentless blowhards who came back to make millions in lucrative summer projects before the seaon starts again, and now they are groping about on the Pathetic Excuses barrel.

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That sounds bullcrap tbh.

If you have ever spent a few days on a mountain, (high alpine height and over) when you come down to sea level you feel amazing, hyperactive.

The thinner air at altitude means less oxygen and your body produces more red blood cells to compensate. When you go back down to sea level until your body can get rid of the extra cells you are buzzing, loads of energy from the excess oxygen.

That is why athletes do altitude training.

Live high, train low works better if you are time constrained. It is the living at altitude that gives the benefit, training is actually harmed initially (less intensive than at sea level).

Souness is spot on.

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Souness sounds like he's talking sense to me.

He did say different people react differently and that he personally didn't take to altitude.

It resonates with me because I think I may be similar. I just do not like mountains and altitude. Friends and family usually put this down to idle weakness.

The FA Cup final was 15 May 2010, England's first cup match against the USA, 12 June.

Anyone know when England went to altitude?

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Ah here we are, England went to altitude on 17 May 2010.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8686439.stm

That gave them 4 weeks before their first match.

And six weeks to their Germany match.

So on that basis it seems to me Souness is talking shyte because after 6 weeks fit professionals should have been at their altitude enhanced peak (bad pun intended).

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Graeme Souness claims on RTE that the England team was predictably awful due to misguided altitude camps.

Video is at

It would explain the extremely flat performances across the whole team in South Africa.

I can forsee a lynch-mob forming for the medical team at the FA....

And this demonstrates one of the (myriad) things I detest about footballers - they will never take responsibility for sheer crapness: they always blame someone or something else. It was the ref's fault, it was the fans' fault; it was the weather \ altitude \ groundsman \ coach that did it.

FFS they get paid enough money to take a little responsibility for their own feeble actions.

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And this demonstrates one of the (myriad) things I detest about footballers - they will never take responsibility for sheer crapness: they always blame someone or something else. It was the ref's fault, it was the fans' fault; it was the weather \ altitude \ groundsman \ coach that did it.

FFS they get paid enough money to take a little responsibility for their own feeble actions.

+1

I think we should all just resign ourselves to the fact that their performance was a bag of shit and leave it at that.

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Training at altitude and then competing at sea level is an old trick to make you fitter because you get used to working much harder due to the thinner oxygen. Another trick some sportsmen use sometimes is training with weights on their backs and then when the real thing is on they are much lighter.

Not just that; I think that if you train at altitude then the body manufactures extra red blood cells so that the bloodstream can carry more oxygen to compensate for the reduced oxygen in the atmosphere. When you return to normal altitude this persists for a while, so your blood carries more oxygen and you're able to perform longer and harder than normal. One of the drugs that's been used for doping cyclists (EPO) simulates this effect, but if you're not careful you die because your blood's too thick.

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And this demonstrates one of the (myriad) things I detest about footballers - they will never take responsibility for sheer crapness: they always blame someone or something else. It was the ref's fault, it was the fans' fault; it was the weather \ altitude \ groundsman \ coach that did it.

FFS they get paid enough money to take a little responsibility for their own feeble actions.

Spot on.

But I also reckon Terry was behind the divided camp.

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England are an older team so this had an effect some say ? So why was Rooney so pish ? The guy is 25.

France also have an older team so maybe this is also related ? No France were pish because everything about their entire set up was wrong. And because they are French, and when the French get pissed off in sport they either turn it on or go home. This year they decided to go home.

South American players are used to living at higher altitute ? It is a rather large continent you know. I imagine most of the Brazilian and Argentinian players are born and raised about sea level. Of course you will get other areas at higher altitude. Then again the same goes for nearly every place on Earth. Do the French from Paris benefit from high altitude living due to Mt Blanc...

For the record, Tevez was raised at an altitide of 376 ft.

Robinho was raised at the fine altitude of..... zero ft.

Just a lame excuse. Nothing else. At least he is not the only Jock talking piffle today. Have a look at this for a laugh.

Craig Brown

Now considering how pish England were maybe he could have a lame point. However we did not make it and England did - so it is pile of pish to bring it up. 'What could have been' is the attitude of losers.

Scotland were not there - get over it.

England were there, but may as well not have been - get over it.

THE END.

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So on that basis it seems to me Souness is talking shyte because after 6 weeks fit professionals should have been at their altitude enhanced peak (bad pun intended).

Ah, but they were at their peak. THAT WAS THEIR PEAK!

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Footballers need to be fit, but not that fit. Altitiude training may be great if you need to shave 0.1 seconds off your PB for a record althetics run, but do a team of footballers really need it if they've spent a whole season playing ? They should be fit enough already.

Maybe this indicates that the training regime was focussed solely on fitness and not the most important thing IMO which is getting the players working together well as a team, which I feel we are woeful at.

Maybe they spent so much time in the camp focussing on basic fitness they didn't spend enough time on moves and getting to know each other better as players. Certainly for the first few days at altitude they would have been more tired and maybe this didn't allow them to train as a team as much.

I think the altitude training would only be useful if the players were actually going to play at high altitude.

I think as well the woeful performance at the back can be explained by the following :

i) Ferdinand out. The two central defenders co-ordinate the defence. With Ferdinand out Terry was left exposed. The two central defenders should work together instinctively, so the fact that you're working together with a teamate who you understand is important. This was hugely evident, as Terry, who most people rate as a competent player in premiership football looked like an amateur.

ii) Terry losing the captaincy and the whole disquiet in the camp thing. His heart wasn't in it.

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I think the altitude training would only be useful if the players were actually going to play at high altitude.

??

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Reminds of Eddie Izzard running several marathons, losing energy and some specialists advising him to force down a big plate of potatoes for energy that night... following day he was very ill... it seemed obvious to me his exhausted body would become more exhausted digesting loads of potatoes...

Yeah, he should have had some very high GI carbs instead such as a dextrose syrup, very easy to digest and he would haveton of energy the next day. Potatoes are a horrific idea but nothing surprises me from "nutrition experts" these days.

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England are an older team so this had an effect some say ? So why was Rooney so pish ? The guy is 25.

good point Rooney, also Torres has failed to be that good

South American players are used to living at higher altitute ? It is a rather large continent you know.

yes that's the point. it is larger and higher altitude across its range than western Europe as it has a central plateau at high altitude whereas europe basically consitutes a large outwash plain from the varous moderate mountain ranges it has inland such as the Alps, Urals, Carpanthians etc which are barely pimples really in global terms. Western Europe has no or little continental plateua - it is all near sea level outwash plains of some sort or other. This is a simple fact.

I imagine most of the Brazilian and Argentinian players are born and raised about sea level.

you're sh*tting me right? the whole of Western Brazil is over about 3000 feet - it's the continental interior, somethign europe barely has as S.America is such a bigger continent. Brasilia is at 4000 ft - on top of Ben Nevis or in the foothills of the Alps. And Argentina is half in the Andes. Cordoba, 2nd largest city in Argentina, is at 1500ft

OK so some of these huys were born in cities near the coast so at sea level, and cities do have a habit of clustering near either the coast if not, say,m inland near mineral deposits or farming such as high alt western brazilian cities. But they ALL played in the national Brazil or Argentina leagues many of whose games were at high altitude. Regularly. Many times a season and for many years. They may have played for clubs that were more inland and at these alpine altitudes and therefore trained week in week out at altitude anyway - therefore is is my guess that most of the players probably have a higher base level of altitude-adaptation.

Of course you will get other areas at higher altitude. Then again the same goes for nearly every place on Earth.

no it doesn't. that was my bleedin point.

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Footballers need to be fit, but not that fit. Altitiude training may be great if you need to shave 0.1 seconds off your PB for a record althetics run, but do a team of footballers really need it if they've spent a whole season playing ? They should be fit enough already.

I think this is mistaken. Football is about getting to the ball first, and not being outrun. Many/most star players are intensely quick (think Owen, Walcott, Gerard, Torres, OVermars, Kanchelskis, Henry, Lineker) while several of that list (Lineker, Owen, Walcott at least) would never make it into a "most skillful" list. And international footballers specifically are selected to avoid players with a lack of pace.

That means that international football is a game of a series of "fast enogh to get there first" sprints. In between, you recover from the oxygen debt. If a football team had an advantage in recovery time, it WOULD make a difference on the pitch.

BTW, the reason that Arsenal won the league in 1998 was an advantage in fitness due to Wenger's training methods. Unfortunately, when the Arsenal players went to England training, everyone could see the advantage when older players like Adams and Dixon trained. So they were asked what they were doing, and they answered honestly. By the next season most of the fitness advantage was gone.

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  • 153 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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