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VeryMeanReversion

Was Going To Look At Some Land

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I was booked in to see a building plot this afternoon. Plot is on at £350K with permission for a 300sqm bungalow and 1.5 acres.

For me, a plot at up to £300K for the land and a £200K build (<200sqm) would have been just about viable, ending up being cheaper than buying an existing house. The agent just called to say there are already offers up at £400K. Well fair enough, I'm not prepared to get involved at that price so pull out of the viewing.

So, I run through the numbers for the new buyers.

Plot £400K => £415K after stamp duty and fees

A 300sqm house would cost £450K according to the family surveyor (who does these sorts of houses all the time). Apparently, building costs have been rising at double digit %'s for the last couple of years.

So the total build will be 415K + 450K + garage + council "section" fees => best part of £900K without contingency. The odd thing is that nothing in this village has ever sold for more than £700K, even at the peak, and they are as large as 400sqm with 1 acre gardens. Just before the peak, I know one plot of one acre went for £250K but had 5 bungalows on it.

Looks like there is still a Grand Designs effect.

VMR.

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They're probably hoping to get planning for 60 new build shoeboxes.

I was booked in to see a building plot this afternoon. Plot is on at £350K with permission for a 300sqm bungalow and 1.5 acres.

For me, a plot at up to £300K for the land and a £200K build (<200sqm) would have been just about viable, ending up being cheaper than buying an existing house. The agent just called to say there are already offers up at £400K. Well fair enough, I'm not prepared to get involved at that price so pull out of the viewing.

So, I run through the numbers for the new buyers.

Plot £400K => £415K after stamp duty and fees

A 300sqm house would cost £450K according to the family surveyor (who does these sorts of houses all the time). Apparently, building costs have been rising at double digit %'s for the last couple of years.

So the total build will be 415K + 450K + garage + council "section" fees => best part of £900K without contingency. The odd thing is that nothing in this village has ever sold for more than £700K, even at the peak, and they are as large as 400sqm with 1 acre gardens. Just before the peak, I know one plot of one acre went for £250K but had 5 bungalows on it.

Looks like there is still a Grand Designs effect.

VMR.

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They're probably hoping to get planning for 60 new build shoeboxes.

Restricted access means only one house is allowed, there were many attempts to get permission in the past but a single large bungalow was eventually allowed.

A £900K bungalow will be something to see when its done.

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Restricted access means only one house is allowed, there were many attempts to get permission in the past but a single large bungalow was eventually allowed.

A £900K bungalow will be something to see when its done.

Same thing still going on around me. £500k-£1500k houses being sold for at about 10% off peak for redevelopment and resale at roughly double the price. i.e. £1m to £3m.

Square ftage being increased to around 3000 to 8000.

Can't find any of these finished developments ever selling though - at any price. So either these are mostly cash developers who are yet to go bankrupt or the banks are still financing them which I find rather suprising.

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Restricted access means only one house is allowed, there were many attempts to get permission in the past but a single large bungalow was eventually allowed.

A £900K bungalow will be something to see when its done.

At sale price of 900k he will sell at cost (no profit).

He could just sit at home with his feet up having no grief and be better off.

He will also have to pay for solicitors, estate agent fees and bank interest out of his own pocket.

And yet somone thinks it is a good idea.

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A 300sqm house would cost £450K according to the family surveyor (who does these sorts of houses all the time). Apparently, building costs have been rising at double digit %'s for the last couple of years.

VMR.

And yet tradesmen still squeal about poles and others continually undercutting them out of business.

Are bricks and timber rising at massive rates?

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Are bricks and timber rising at massive rates?

That's what I was told by the surveyor and have no reasons to doubt it with the 25% sterling crash.

For £550K, you can get a decent house with 2000sqft and larger, similar quality plot. Stick a big extension on and save a couple of hundred thousand. The days of buying a plot and building for less than the cost of an existing house looks to be a long way away. It would take a Japan-style crash in land prices to do it.

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That's what I was told by the surveyor and have no reasons to doubt it with the 25% sterling crash.

For £550K, you can get a decent house with 2000sqft and larger, similar quality plot. Stick a big extension on and save a couple of hundred thousand. The days of buying a plot and building for less than the cost of an existing house looks to be a long way away. It would take a Japan-style crash in land prices to do it.

But if it is not less why not simply buy a house that already exists and have 1 year extra of doing something you want to do.

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But if it is not less why not simply buy a house that already exists and have 1 year extra of doing something you want to do.

For me, I can't afford to build a 300sqm house but building a 200sqm house on a £300K plot would have been cheaper than buying an existing house.

For the buyers at £400k for the plot, it can't make any financial sense. If they build a small house, the final cost per sqm is very high. If they build a large house, the final cost is around double the typical house on the road and more than the village prices would support.

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"Garden Grabbing" has just been made a lot more difficult by the new government. That must have driven up the price of existing building plots.

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Plot next to my inlaws sold for £420k with planning permission for a replacement dwelling.

It was only 20 years ago that my father in law was able to buy his fully completed house for his family on just his wage....now to live on their street you'd need to be earning £150k a year!*

* and it isn't even that nice an area!

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Op numbers re building the 300 sqm house are miles out.

I bought land on Cambs/Herts border back ed of last year (0.4 acre plot with detailed pp).

240 sq m house, top spec, cinema room, home automation blah blah blah is going to cost me £240k all in (+ I get my VAT back on that number). So suggest that your family surveyor checks his pricing, because he is miles out.... :blink:

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Op numbers re building the 300 sqm house are miles out.

I bought land on Cambs/Herts border back ed of last year (0.4 acre plot with detailed pp).

240 sq m house, top spec, cinema room, home automation blah blah blah is going to cost me £240k all in (+ I get my VAT back on that number). So suggest that your family surveyor checks his pricing, because he is miles out.... :blink:

+1

£1k/m2 for decent spec. A developer will no doubt pay substantially less.

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Op numbers re building the 300 sqm house are miles out.

I bought land on Cambs/Herts border back ed of last year (0.4 acre plot with detailed pp).

240 sq m house, top spec, cinema room, home automation blah blah blah is going to cost me £240k all in (+ I get my VAT back on that number). So suggest that your family surveyor checks his pricing, because he is miles out.... :blink:

It depends what you build, OP might want marble floors but yes £10k per sqm is about right for house of this size. With builders looking for work right now, it might cost even less.

However, £400k for 1.5 acre of land is not cheap though and remember that HPC is actually LandPrice crash...

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A 300sqm house would cost £450K according to the family surveyor (who does these sorts of houses all the time). Apparently, building costs have been rising at double digit %'s for the last couple of years.

£1,500 sqm or as I still think in imperial measurements £150 sq ft is what you would pay for a builder to construct and complete the entire house. You can bring the costs down to £50/60 sq ft if you provide your own labour and do most of the work yourself.

So £400k for the plot, £150k for the build and sell at £700k would seem viable.

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A 300sqm house would cost £450K according to the family surveyor (who does these sorts of houses all the time). Apparently, building costs have been rising at double digit %'s for the last couple of years.

VMR.

I think your surveyor is part of the property market theft machine.

My brother built a (very nice) 200m2 house (and it's very nice) for about 95k, finished it last year.

He tells me that materials have risen a lot and it would cost 15k or more on top now. It would have been a bit quicker if he'd paid for more help, so let's add 30k, that still comes to 140k for 200m2.

My friend is having a house built in central Geneva on better terms than 450k per 300m2!

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And yet tradesmen still squeal about poles and others continually undercutting them out of business.

Are bricks and timber rising at massive rates?

What I'm told by the few developers I meet is that green taxes on materials have wiped out the saving they've had in the past couple of years from 30-50% cut in labour costs. Breeze blocks and concrete hit hard, they say. No idea if it's true.

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My last project in 2006 cost £131k to build all in (and I mean everything). The project included demolishing the old house, rehabilitating 1.5 acres, a private sewage treatment plant, natural stone external walls, natural blue slate roof, expensive German kitchen, appliances, three bathrooms carpets, curtains, everything. Cost was just under £690 per sqm. I paid £167k for the site. I did no physical work, just designed, bought and managed. No scab labour, just good local trades. I'm in the North.

Your analysis of building land prices is spot-on. I have been watching for the past three years and the price of plots has not fallen as it ought to which is really weird as the ones being offered don't sell as fast as they once did.

When I did my first project in the 80s I was given the guide that the land should be no more than 35% of the developed value (we're on single house sites here). That guideline was torched years ago in the popular areas.

I have stood in auctions and watched people bid themselves into a certain loss situation. Some people are prepared to spend more than a place is worth just to be able to say they've done it. Nuts!

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Op numbers re building the 300 sqm house are miles out.

Thanks to you and other for the feedback on building costs. I had been checking internet building sites and they were all coming out with around 1000 per sqm and it was a big surprise when I talked to the family surveyor when he said that there was no chance of getting anything done for less than 1500/sqm. Even after pushing him on this, he was very clear and has been doing this sort of work for 40+ years. He is based in Herts which may be more expensive but that is only one county away.

So its difficult for me to now price a self-buiid given conflicting advice. I know a local architect, I'll contact him for some estimates of houses he's personally done in this area.

Thanks all.

VMR.

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I was booked in to see a building plot this afternoon. Plot is on at £350K with permission for a 300sqm bungalow and 1.5 acres.

For me, a plot at up to £300K for the land and a £200K build (<200sqm) would have been just about viable, ending up being cheaper than buying an existing house. The agent just called to say there are already offers up at £400K. Well fair enough, I'm not prepared to get involved at that price so pull out of the viewing.

So, I run through the numbers for the new buyers.

Plot £400K => £415K after stamp duty and fees

A 300sqm house would cost £450K according to the family surveyor (who does these sorts of houses all the time). Apparently, building costs have been rising at double digit %'s for the last couple of years.

So the total build will be 415K + 450K + garage + council "section" fees => best part of £900K without contingency. The odd thing is that nothing in this village has ever sold for more than £700K, even at the peak, and they are as large as 400sqm with 1 acre gardens. Just before the peak, I know one plot of one acre went for £250K but had 5 bungalows on it.

Looks like there is still a Grand Designs effect.

VMR.

As I sit here in the middle of France next to my 180m2 Barn (4 bed/3 bath conversion cost 100k) , several acrtes of unspoilt land together with 2 other properties all bought for less than the cost of a UK slavebox i'm thinking what stuff are you people on?

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As I sit here in the middle of France next to my 180m2 Barn (4 bed/3 bath conversion cost 100k) , several acrtes of unspoilt land together with 2 other properties all bought for less than the cost of a UK slavebox i'm thinking what stuff are you people on?

Credit.

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Credit.

Location. Anyway, I'm not about to discuss why prices are lower in rural France.

Could you ask the buyer why they bid 400k? I know it's cheeky, but they probably won't mind and you might learn something. Rather than speculating about their reasoning.

Why was this topic moved so quickly?

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Location. Anyway, I'm not about to discuss why prices are lower in rural France.

Could you ask the buyer why they bid 400k? I know it's cheeky, but they probably won't mind and you might learn something. Rather than speculating about their reasoning.

Why was this topic moved so quickly?

Yes, mods, please explain. We're discussing building and land prices here, absolutely germane to HPI. Why was this moved?

A few plots I've followed in S Cambs have fallen, but only slightly. The biggest problem seems to be that most plots are tiny, and are priced on the basis that the builder will tear down the existing building and erect two McMansions on the plot, with virtually no garden to speak of.

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  • 152 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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