Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
'Bart'

Unusual Gold Coins

Recommended Posts

As I've admitted with silver, I often prefer variety over what might be considered the best "bang per buck" deal.

There are certain "obscure" gold coins I'd like to buy for that reason. They may be harder to sell locally but I'm sure the likes of Bairds of CoinInvestDirect would buy them.

Like this Hong Kong $1000 coin (out of stock at the moment) (link)

Am I completely or only partially misguided in my thinking?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I've admitted with silver, I often prefer variety over what might be considered the best "bang per buck" deal.

There are certain "obscure" gold coins I'd like to buy for that reason. They may be harder to sell locally but I'm sure the likes of Bairds of CoinInvestDirect would buy them.

Like this Hong Kong $1000 coin (out of stock at the moment) (link)

Am I completely or only partially misguided in my thinking?

Why pay a premium, especially for something that has cgt on it, unlike sovs and Britannias?

I mean, if you like collecting, fine, but it is unlikely to be a good investment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there's an element of "collecting" involved and wanting to have some different designs. Only an element of course, I know that these are just bullion coins in the end, even the really attractive ones (there I go again!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there's an element of "collecting" involved and wanting to have some different designs. Only an element of course, I know that these are just bullion coins in the end, even the really attractive ones (there I go again!).

I like to have some alternative coins, to my main core of sovereigns, my preference being for old European coins, for example, the French 20 franc, Italian 20 lira and Swiss Vreneli coins.

With regards to the Italian 20 lira gold coins, Bairds have been out of stock for more than a year and I have never seen them in stock, even temporarily.

I don't personally care for the big one ounce coins (31-33 grams+), not because of the outlay for one coin, I just prefer the 5 to 8 gram weight and size and something with a history of being used in circulation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why pay a premium, especially for something that has cgt on it, unlike sovs and Britannias?

I mean, if you like collecting, fine, but it is unlikely to be a good investment.

Premiums aren't that high. I paid marginally over spot for a couple of 1 Ducats recently and just 3% over spot for a Vreneli. There's absolutely no problem selling these coins either. I have about 85% in CGT-exempt bullion, the rest in other mainly european bullion coins. And a few proof half sovs that I've earmarked for sale at some point.

Edited by needsleep

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I've admitted with silver, I often prefer variety over what might be considered the best "bang per buck" deal.

There are certain "obscure" gold coins I'd like to buy for that reason. They may be harder to sell locally but I'm sure the likes of Bairds of CoinInvestDirect would buy them.

Like this Hong Kong $1000 coin (out of stock at the moment) (link)

Am I completely or only partially misguided in my thinking?

you want best value then buy sovs, look at coininvest and work out the price per gramme for various coins, sovs work out cheaper than any 1oz coin or any other coin for that matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sovs work out cheaper than any 1oz coin or any other coin for that matter.

I've got some sovs and will doubtless buy more. They're certainly much easier to hide than the 1 oz coins!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got some sovs and will doubtless buy more. They're certainly much easier to hide than the 1 oz coins!

I would say that if the when the economic shit hits the fan I would rather have soveriegns as they will be recognizable by the british people whom I live amongst. People will not trust a coin they don't recognise.

Also as a word of warning I bought a Panda coin that had come from china sealed and it had been clipped ever so slightly at the edge. Check all pandas!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that if the when the economic shit hits the fan I would rather have soveriegns as they will be recognizable by the british people whom I live amongst. People will not trust a coin they don't recognise.

Many people mention Krugerrands by default when it comes to gold bullion coins, however due to the legacy of the British Empire, the best known and widely circulated coin is the sovereign.

They are snapping them up in Greece.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7135543.ece

May 25, 2010

Greeks give new meaning to idea of sovereign wealth

John Carr

They were parachuted in during the Second World War to fund local resistance to the Germans and now, with a population mired deep in another — if very different — crisis, British gold sovereigns once again are the foreign currency of choice in Greece.

Once again, too, they are offering a tangible sense of security amid turbulent uncertainty. In the 1940s, as the only reliable currency available, much of it was hoarded in trunks, under floorboards and buried in gardens. Any respectable girl’s dowry included a cache of sovereigns.

Now they are being used as a physical hedge against fears that Greece may leave the eurozone. For weeks buyers have been queuing patiently in the central bank’s main downtown Athens office, prepared to shell out nearly €273 per piece, up from €243 at the start of May and €180 last July. Persistent worries that Greece could default at least partly on its debts are emptying the Bank of Greece’s vaults of at least 700 gold coins a day, giving a whole new meaning to the term sovereign debt.

“The public’s renewed interest in sovereigns as an asset started with the collapse of Lehman Brothers,” the daily Kathimerini wrote. Central bank officials estimate that while Greek demand for the distinctive bullion has been rising by 10 per cent a year since 2008, its price has been soaring by more than 50 per cent.

Greeks’ uncertainty about their future has manifested itself more dramatically in a series of strikes and riots. The markets have been jittery, too, something unlikely to have been eased by remarks yesterday by Olivier Blanchard, chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, who said: “The markets are wondering if Greece will be able to repay its debt or not. Given the behaviour of Greek governments in the past, their uncertainties are understandable.”

Sovereigns remained legal tender amid an unstable drachma until 1965, when the Greek Government placed restrictions on their trading. Many hoarders cashed in their stocks, although street vendors near the Athens Stock Exchange continued to do a brisk trade in the coins.

The growing run on the bullion sovereign has spawned a thriving black market: in addition to about 50,000 sold legally by the Bank of Greece in the first four months of this year, officials estimate that at least 100,000 have changed hands on the black market at prices of up to €300.

Trading offers have invaded the Greek blogosphere, where buyers are sometimes confused at the variety of sovereigns on offer. Some expect the head of George V, standard on most of the 1930s coins flown into wartime Greece. Others want Elizabeth II, whose likeness is on a batch of several million pounds’ worth of sovereigns that Greece bought in the 1970s.

Tudor legacy still going

Analysis: Patrick Hosking

More than one billion gold sovereigns are estimated to have been minted since the first of them was created for Henry VII in 1489.

Through the centuries, the coins have been a favoured store of value, not only for the Greeks but for Australians, Indians, Canadians and South Africans — and, of course, the British.

Slightly larger than a 1p piece, sovereigns are still churned out to this day by the Royal Mint in Llantrisant, South Wales, which sells them by mail order for £232.95.

The original 15th-century sovereigns were bigger, heavier and, at 23-carat, more packed with pure gold than the present-day coins, which are 22-carat.

The first sovereigns were illustrated with pictures of the king on one side and the Tudor rose on the other, hence the name. The St George and Dragon motif was introduced in 1871.

Since 1817, sovereigns have been produced to a standard specification. Each is 1.52mm thick with a diameter of 22.05mm and a weight of 7.9881 grams (shown below, life size).The actual gold content is 7.3224 grams.

Based on yesterday’s spot dollar price for gold and the prevailing exchange rate, the precious metal value of a sovereign is about £193. However, the common ones are sold for between £210 and £230 retail, with rarer versions in good condition commanding much higher prices.

The price of sovereigns and other gold coins has inevitably rocketed alongside the price of the precious metal, which has quadrupled in the past ten years.

Although they are legal tender with a nominal value of £1, the coins ceased being used for normal transactions during the First World War. Today they are prized as gifts to mark weddings and births. In 2005, the most recent year for figures, more than 45,000 new sovereigns were minted.

Edited by Take Me Back To London!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had the morning off today and went into town (York) to look for a sovereign to buy. The antique shops were all well overpriced and the coin shop I intended to go to is on holiday this week.

So I went to Spink's on the Shambles, which I've always steered clear of because the prices of the stuff in the window look like it is there for the tourists.

They have a tray of bullion sovereigns, half sovs, krugerrands and fractions, all at 10% over spot. I bought a 1979 proof sovereign for £206.00. Today is a good day to buy.

Edit: I also bought a 2003 1oz silver Britannia for £17, which felt like getting a free gift. My first UK 999 silver coin.

Edited by Grimbert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally agree. The bulk of your stack should be in well known coins. If it floats your boat diversify a little but not too much.

+1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Edit: I also bought a 2003 1oz silver Britannia for £17, which felt like getting a free gift. My first UK 999 silver coin.

Sorry if this is bad news but silver Brittanias are 95.8% silver with the rest of the coin being copper. I made the same assumption when I bought some as well.

http://www.royalmint.com/store/BritishSilver/BR10AGN.aspx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry if this is bad news but silver Brittanias are 95.8% silver with the rest of the coin being copper. I made the same assumption when I bought some as well.

http://www.royalmint.com/store/BritishSilver/BR10AGN.aspx

Yes I found out after posting that message on Friday and didn't bother to correct myself. I weighed the coin to find it was nearly 33g, so I looked it up on the internet and found wikipedia's article.

It's odd it should say '1 ounce fine silver' on the coin itself. It is 1 ounce of silver, but it isn't fine silver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I found out after posting that message on Friday and didn't bother to correct myself. I weighed the coin to find it was nearly 33g, so I looked it up on the internet and found wikipedia's article.

It's odd it should say '1 ounce fine silver' on the coin itself. It is 1 ounce of silver, but it isn't fine silver.

a troy ounce is 31.1g, the coin may weigh 33g but says 1 ounce because it does contain 1 ozt of pure silver, the remaining 2g are other metals added in which are irrelevant to most.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a troy ounce is 31.1g, the coin may weigh 33g but says 1 ounce because it does contain 1 ozt of pure silver, the remaining 2g are other metals added in which are irrelevant to most.

Yeah but I thought 'Fine Silver' meant 999 Silver. I know I've got a full 1 troy ounce of silver in a 33g coin, but what I have bought is 33g of silver with a fineness of only 958.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't worry too much. Britannia silver, 90% silver, 99% silver, 50% silver, pre-1921 etc. In the mania, even the turkeys will fly.

Silver coin? Sure give me it now! Give you £100 for it

Edited by Money Spinner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have piles of old silver coins now, and really am running out of space. (The piles are small still, the space is less than a shoebox)

Is it really worth collecting 50% UK coins from 1920-1946? Is my money not better spent buying 92.5% stuff from 1919 and before?, I mean taking the price of silver into account. Or even Canadian, American and French silver coins, which are mostly 80% and above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have piles of old silver coins now, and really am running out of space. (The piles are small still, the space is less than a shoebox)

Is it really worth collecting 50% UK coins from 1920-1946? Is my money not better spent buying 92.5% stuff from 1919 and before?, I mean taking the price of silver into account. Or even Canadian, American and French silver coins, which are mostly 80% and above.

Older, less pure coins can be cost effective. Main reason is that second hand coins can be free of VAT. To give an example Weighton does a silver crown lucky dip deal. Got one a while back and the average per troy oz was £12.20. At the same time I was stacking generic rounds at £15 per troz oz. The second hand coins are great for bringing down your average £/oz but core rule as stated above - bulk in well known coins and a little diversity if you feel that way inclined. I tend to stick 80-90% with the well-knowns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have piles of old silver coins now, and really am running out of space. (The piles are small still, the space is less than a shoebox)

Is it really worth collecting 50% UK coins from 1920-1946? Is my money not better spent buying 92.5% stuff from 1919 and before?, I mean taking the price of silver into account. Or even Canadian, American and French silver coins, which are mostly 80% and above.

I have a lot of 50% too, and it does allegedly drop your average price but only on paper.

Ever tried to offload 50%? Have a look around for an exit strategy and see what I mean about who will even take 50% and what they are willing to pay for it before buying too much.

As for a shtf scenario, cant see 50% coinage being much use then either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a lot of 50% too, and it does allegedly drop your average price but only on paper.

Ever tried to offload 50%? Have a look around for an exit strategy and see what I mean about who will even take 50% and what they are willing to pay for it before buying too much.

As for a shtf scenario, cant see 50% coinage being much use then either.

There are good reasons that pure or near pure coins/rounds fetch a premium and that will never change.

I collect some silver as a hobby more than anything, but decided a while back only to buy nice looking coins,rounds or bullion that are pure silver at the lowest price. This will always be the easiest to sell.

The word "offload" describes exactly what it would be like to sell obscure coins that are less than pure or near pure silver.

They would be offloaded at a low price to a bullion dealer or slightly more to a collector.

Edited by tiggerthetiger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like to have some alternative coins, to my main core of sovereigns, my preference being for old European coins, for example, the French 20 franc, Italian 20 lira and Swiss Vreneli coins.

With regards to the Italian 20 lira gold coins, Bairds have been out of stock for more than a year and I have never seen them in stock, even temporarily.

I don't personally care for the big one ounce coins (31-33 grams+), not because of the outlay for one coin, I just prefer the 5 to 8 gram weight and size and something with a history of being used in circulation.

If anyone is interested I have a swiss 20fr (1922) that I am looking to sell.

Living in Birmingham so would prefer a local pick-up with cash on collection.

Happy to sell for spot with no premium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.