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"made In China" Decline?

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China's factories hit by wave of strikes

Industrial unrest has been spreading through China's factories, with strikes breaking out in the south, east and north. China correspondent Damian Grammaticas has been to the industrial heartland in southern Guangdong province to examine why the strikes are happening and what the implications are.

It is 0730 local time in Shenzhen, China's factory heartland, and rush hour for the workers.

The pavements are thronged, packed with people heading for the morning shift. They wear uniforms, red T-shirts for one factory, blue for another, white for another.

It all looks orderly, but there are stirrings of discontent here at the heart of China's manufacturing industries.

Strikes have been rippling from factory to factory. There have been at least a dozen in the past few weeks. Outside Merry Electronics in Shenzhen earlier this month, workers blocked the road.

Footage taken with a mobile phone shows them pushing and shoving in a face-off with government security officers.

"Why are you beating us?" the workers shout. Almost all are young, teenagers or in their 20s, migrants from China's countryside. With a megaphone the officers shout back: "Don't act illegally."

Now they are back at work at the Merry factory. Outside the gates at 1930, the day shift is knocking off and hundreds of people are filing past.

'Unprecedented'

The strike is a really sensitive subject. One striker, Mr Wang, who is 20 years old and comes from central China, tells us he was involved.

The strike, he says, was spontaneous, triggered by anger that the factory was not paying overtime rates for work at weekends. So for labouring seven days a week, 11 hours a day, the migrants were earning less than a dollar an hour.

Continue reading the main story

The new generation of workers born in the 80s and 90s are not like their parents

"Lots of workers are unhappy with their pay," Mr Wang says. "Even those who have been here for years get just the minimum wage like newcomers. At least striking together got attention for our cause."

The workers negotiated directly with Merry's managers. In this nascent labour movement, the strikers are disorganised, with no leaders, no agreed set of demands. They settled for an assurance that wages will go up modestly.

Some recent strikers, beginning with one at a Honda car plant, have demanded the right to elect their own union representatives as they say the official Communist Party-controlled unions do little for the workers.

Li Zhao, of China Labour Watch, says this new demand is a radical departure.

"Honda's strike was quite unprecedented. In recent years we haven't seen this demand to form trade unions.

"But at Honda the workers demanded not just a pay rise of over $100 (£66) a month, but also that they be allowed to elect their own union representatives because the official union didn't help them at all."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10434079.stm

One of the most important lines:

The new generation of workers born in the 80s and 90s are not like their parents

Oh dear!!

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10434079.stm

One of the most important lines:

The new generation of workers born in the 80s and 90s are not like their parents

Oh dear!!

Unlike Taiwan in the past, China has an inexhaustable labour supply, if this lot doesn't want the work they'll be plenty more who will, or they'll raise pay slightly and things will continue.

The other problem is that not only has the 'putting together' of products been exported, so has the know how, the machinery to do it and the raw materials to make the parts in the first place.

It is impossible to get certain plastics and some materials in this country now because China is taking all the supply, it will take a long long time to reverse the current situation

Sure prices will go up but what choice do we have

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This is an important straw in the wind, the begginings of the collapse of the second cornerstone of globalisation: the first conerstone was disemploying/cutting salaries of western consumers and making up the income shortfall with huge amounts of credit which

resulted in the credit crisis: now the slave labour needed to make the cheap goods has grown some balls and wants a fair cut. It going to be a long and hard road, but globalisation will be exposed for the unsustainable plutocrat scam that is.

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Unlike Taiwan in the past, China has an inexhaustable labour supply, if this lot doesn't want the work they'll be plenty more who will, or they'll raise pay slightly and things will continue.

The other problem is that not only has the 'putting together' of products been exported, so has the know how, the machinery to do it and the raw materials to make the parts in the first place.

It is impossible to get certain plastics and some materials in this country now because China is taking all the supply, it will take a long long time to reverse the current situation

Sure prices will go up but what choice do we have

I don't think "inexhaustable" labour supply will occur for much longer.

The one child policy and ageing population will start to significantly affect labour supply, as a result workers will gradually demand higher wages.

The era of cheap electronics, clothes, tat etc is now drawing to a close. Coupled with Western currency devaluing, resource and oil constraints and western currency inflation, the outlook for cheap tat looks bleaker by the day.

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I don't think "inexhaustable" labour supply will occur for much longer.

The one child policy and ageing population will start to significantly affect labour supply, as a result workers will gradually demand higher wages.

The era of cheap electronics, clothes, tat etc is now drawing to a close. Coupled with Western currency devaluing, resource and oil constraints and western currency inflation, the outlook for cheap tat looks bleaker by the day.

The single child is not as strict as you might think, besides the population of China is absolutely vast, Shanghai's population alone is bigger than Australia.

As you pointed out, while demand falls (through Western World recessions and currency change) but I think competition will become greater within China keeping prices steady/ perhaps slightly rising

The fact that China is now building Audis and planes is the biggest concern, we can no longer say that China is just making tat

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Expect cost of stuff from China to rise over the next year.

That would be clothes, electronics. Anything else?

yeah because the largest monetary percentage of a pair of 70 pound nikes or a 300 pound ipad is the chinese labour element :lol:

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This isn't very communist is it, I mean workers sticking together and demanding higher pay from the capitalists.

Marx would be turning in his grave.

A good point. Perhaps the most important factor in the world economy is the capitalist dictatorship in China, and its violent oppression of Chinese workers,

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A good point. Perhaps the most important factor in the world economy is the capitalist dictatorship in China, and its violent oppression of Chinese workers,

Indeed, China isn't a communist state, it's a mature fascist state. The kind of thing that would have happened in Italy or Germany had their respective dictators not been deposed.

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I don't think "inexhaustable" labour supply will occur for much longer.

The one child policy and ageing population will start to significantly affect labour supply, as a result workers will gradually demand higher wages.

The era of cheap electronics, clothes, tat etc is now drawing to a close. Coupled with Western currency devaluing, resource and oil constraints and western currency inflation, the outlook for cheap tat looks bleaker by the day.

One child policy is only enforced in cities right now, in the country side and non Han Chinese it is irrelevant. Hell you can even get around it in cities by not registering your second third forth and so on children. This denies them their state sponsored education though which means you have to pay for them yourself.

With rural families making up the migrant workers the supply is pretty massive.

Shanghai districts are currently experimenting with one child policy completely abolished and much of it is western propaganda.

The danger is if these people put down their tools and take up arms, the CCP decides civil war or to externalise and invade somebody else. They have a standing army of 15 million and with the old constraints out of the way like the powers in WWII had where we could at most mobilise 2.5% of our populations to fight it would be catastrophic.

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The single child is not as strict as you might think, besides the population of China is absolutely vast, Shanghai's population alone is bigger than Australia.

As you pointed out, while demand falls (through Western World recessions and currency change) but I think competition will become greater within China keeping prices steady/ perhaps slightly rising

The fact that China is now building Audis and planes is the biggest concern, we can no longer say that China is just making tat

The BBC propped up this argument with the old chestnut that there's plenty of workers still flooding industry from the countryside.

Not sure who will be left to grow the food after generations of agricultural neglect, but hey ho.

So, if Chinese industry would rather replace workers with more slave fodder rather than increase their wages, just how are they going to be able to take up the consumer slack from the West?

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The BBC propped up this argument with the old chestnut that there's plenty of workers still flooding industry from the countryside.

Not sure who will be left to grow the food after generations of agricultural neglect, but hey ho.

So, if Chinese industry would rather replace workers with more slave fodder rather than increase their wages, just how are they going to be able to take up the consumer slack from the West?

Socialise heathcare and education probably maybe put in place a ponzi pension scheme so people don't have to save as much money for their far futures.

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Socialise heathcare and education probably maybe put in place a ponzi pension scheme so people don't have to save as much money for their far futures.

And when the Chinese stop saving, what happens next?

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The BBC propped up this argument with the old chestnut that there's plenty of workers still flooding industry from the countryside.

Not sure who will be left to grow the food after generations of agricultural neglect, but hey ho.

So, if Chinese industry would rather replace workers with more slave fodder rather than increase their wages, just how are they going to be able to take up the consumer slack from the West?

All you have to do is read above to see that even in Shanghai the single child rule is being circumvented, the last time I was in Shanghai this was made evident to me anyway

The improvement in Labour skilled through affluency, better training etc reduces the need for workers from agricultural areas

plus the improvements in automation and technology are reducing the need for humans at a lower level too

I don't see this being a big problem, the rural areas aren't sticking to the single child rule, workers aren't forced to the city, they want to go through need to earn and/or desire to improve their lives.

Besides, never mind them, it doesn't get away from the point, we are F**ked here, we have sold our products, our skills, next will be our ideas and then there will be bugger all left for us to do except sell their stuff to each other or work for the government

Edited by robo1968

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And when the Chinese stop saving, what happens next?

Doesn't quite happen like that though, Hong Kong is the most consumerist shallowest city in China and yet people there still save their money even though banks have paid no interest in decades and CPI has been floating around the 5-8% mark for ages.

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All you have to do is read above to see that even in Shanghai the single child rule is being circumvented, the last time I was in Shanghai this was made evident to me anyway

The improvement in Labour skilled through affluency, better training etc reduces the need for workers from agricultural areas

plus the improvements in automation and technology are reducing the need for humans at a lower level too

I don't see this being a big problem, the rural areas aren't sticking to the single child rule, workers aren't forced to the city, they want to go through need to earn and/or desire to improve their lives.

More workers require more food, but yes I get your point.

Besides, never mind them, it doesn't get away from the point, we are F**ked here, we have sold our products, our skills, next will be our ideas and then there will be bugger all left for us to do except sell their stuff to each other or work for the government

I think we've already passed this point.

Edited by PopGun

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I think we've already passed this point.

Yes, it is a worry,

At £1 or even £2 per hour over there and India, we simply do not have a competitive advantage

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Yes, it is a worry,

At £1 or even £2 per hour over there and India, we simply do not have a competitive advantage

It's worse than that though. In that my old bosses used to charge £100 or so for me to spent 30 minutes on a tax return. They used to charge MUCH more than that when they sent me out to audit stuff. I never saw anything close to £100 a day or £500 a day getting much less than the headline figure.

The Indian outsourcers my old company used charged on a sliding scale from simple jobs of £2 an hour to more complex jobs at £4 an hour. If I never saw the headline rate the outsourcer employees never see the headline rate either. So while they may charge us £2 an hour the employees are probably getting 30p an hour meaning they have wiggle room to cut costs even more and make less profits if they compete with each other and the gulf in wages is much wider than previously anticipated.

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It's worse than that though. In that my old bosses used to charge £100 or so for me to spent 30 minutes on a tax return. They used to charge MUCH more than that when they sent me out to audit stuff. I never saw anything close to £100 a day or £500 a day getting much less than the headline figure.

The Indian outsourcers my old company used charged on a sliding scale from simple jobs of £2 an hour to more complex jobs at £4 an hour. If I never saw the headline rate the outsourcer employees never see the headline rate either. So while they may charge us £2 an hour the employees are probably getting 30p an hour meaning they have wiggle room to cut costs even more and make less profits if they compete with each other and the gulf in wages is much wider than previously anticipated.

My brother is an accountant and says the same.

I actually think there is an opportunity for small accountants to set up and provide this service at a much lower cost. The moment they start passing that on and reducing their charges I think the accountancy industry will change

It is logical when there is zero freight and duty costs

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  • 258 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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