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rolf

People Who Say "fuh" Instead Of "thu"

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As in "firty free bottles of beer on the wall".

Is it an accent? Is it related to IQ? EQ? Is it laziness? Could it even be a lack of ambition or a related mental obstacle affecting low socio-economic groups?

Someone please explain this to me, it seems uniquely British and is, frankly, embarrassing.

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As in "firty free bottles of beer on the wall".

firty free? Careful, Bearlite might think you're a Mason.

Is it an accent? Is it related to IQ? EQ? Is it laziness? Could it even be a lack of ambition or a related mental obstacle affecting low socio-economic groups?

Someone please explain this to me, it seems uniquely British and is, frankly, embarrassing.

The whole accent, including pronouncing 'r's as 'w's,and a glottal stop replacing 't' is called Estuary English. Johnathan Ross is well known for it.

I can't stand it either. Perhaps I'm vewy vewy snobbish.

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firty free? Careful, Bearlite might think you're a Mason.

The whole accent, including pronouncing 'r's as 'w's,and a glottal stop replacing 't' is called Estuary English. Johnathan Ross is well known for it.

I can't stand it either. Perhaps I'm vewy vewy snobbish.

I forgot about the Estuary accent. They are a tiny minority. I'm talking about all the others. More commonly seen in the yoof of today. Except, they don't outgrow it.

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firty free? Careful, Bearlite might think you're a Mason.

The whole accent, including pronouncing 'r's as 'w's,and a glottal stop replacing 't' is called Estuary English. Johnathan Ross is well known for it.

I can't stand it either. Perhaps I'm vewy vewy snobbish.

But Ross surely has a speech impediment?

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My cousin says Thursday properly but any time he says 3 it comes out "free".

Are you refering to this or the annoying as took London accent epitomised by dizzy rascal?

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It's just changing language. Like people saying 'uvvah' instead of 'other'.

As a middle-class person, I think the way middle-class people speak has changed more than any other sectors. Middle-class people used to speak like the Queen still does now. But her accent is actually one from the mid 20th century frozen in time. (But her iaccent is iactually one fdom the mid 20th cienturedy fdozen in tdime.)

worked with a lot of Essex in London for a few years
Aah ya doin' - aw'right?

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More of a Cockney thing I'd say, that is, the old Cockney rather than the more recent Ja-fake-an accent.

I'd always thought Essex people must've been Londoners made good, moved out to the country, since they share the same accents, but in fact, it was the other way around. Londoners adopted the Essex accent many, many years ago when the dockers were primarily from Essex. In the middle ages Londoners had more of an East Midlands accent since that's where many of the workers came from.

I'm reading London - The Biography by Peter Ackroyd, an 800 page beast which fascinates and appalls in equal measures.

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My cousin says Thursday properly but any time he says 3 it comes out "free".

Are you refering to this or the annoying as took London accent epitomised by dizzy rascal?

All of it. The two you mentioned and more.

Yes, it seems to be big among black people but also poor whites. Mind you in London, the yoof have assimilated the black inner city accent. Quite why it is "cool" to adopt the "accent" or way of speaking of poor third generation immigrants, I have no idea. Perhaps this is "ghettoisation"??

I worked with a lot of Essex in London for a few years and picked up "somefink", fortunately it has now gone.

Yes, I've noticed that many from Essex also speak this way. Essex will confuse me for years. Ex-cockneys (did cockneys used to say "thu" or "fu"?) who have done well from property boom and London boom and would probably be as well off as Geordies were it not for their proximity to London.

It's just changing language. Like people saying 'uvvah' instead of 'other'.

Anyone who says "uvvah" deserves a slap.

But why is it that these people cannot say "th"??? It's as if they physically can't. Maybe they destroyed the braincells corresponding to the correct pathways required.

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It's just changing language. Like people saying 'uvvah' instead of 'other'.

As a middle-class person, I think the way middle-class people speak has changed more than any other sectors. Middle-class people used to speak like the Queen still does now. But her accent is actually one from the mid 20th century frozen in time. (But her iaccent is iactually one fdom the mid 20th cienturedy fdozen in tdime.)

Aah ya doin' - aw'right?

It isn't just changing language when you break all connection between the way a word is written and the way it's pronounced.

It's a backward step towards the caveman, before humans started writing things down.

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It isn't just changing language when you break all connection between the way a word is written and the way it's pronounced.

It's a backward step towards the caveman, before humans started writing things down.

Are you suggesting that we should pronounce English phonetically?

Any difference between "th" and "f" is very minor. They sound exactly the same to me (or to "v" in some words), and I don't have a south east accent and I'm not stupid either.

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It isn't just changing language when you break all connection between the way a word is written and the way it's pronounced.

It's a backward step towards the caveman, before humans started writing things down.

Exactly. I get very exercised by these people who don't pronounce the 'r' in words like "fire" and "hard". And as for people who pronounce "Wales" and "whales" the same way ...

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People on TV or the radio who say NOOS instead of NEWS.

I blame that moronic idiot Jonathan Ross. He lives in Crouch End mate donychyouknow, not bloody Brooklyn.

This has now spread mainstream...drives me mad!

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Are you suggesting that we should pronounce English phonetically?

Any difference between "th" and "f" is very minor. They sound exactly the same to me (or to "v" in some words), and I don't have a south east accent and I'm not stupid either.

Exactly. I get very exercised by these people who don't pronounce the 'r' in words like "fire" and "hard". And as for people who pronounce "Wales" and "whales" the same way ...

Of course there are significant anomalies in existing languages, English is pretty bad. French is medium bad. Spanish is much better as far as I can see, though I'm not fluent.

That doesn't really change my point. Languages change all the time, but the link between the written and the spoken language must be kept clear or we return to the caves - IMO English could do with a revision on this point.

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Languages change all the time, but the link between the written and the spoken language must be kept clear or we return to the caves - IMO English could do with a revision on this point.

Point taken, but this way lies a regression to just grunting at each other eventually. At some point you have to say "No, you're just being lazy, say the word correctly.".

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Point taken, but this way lies a regression to just grunting at each other eventually. At some point you have to say "No, you're just being lazy, say the word correctly.".

Well yes, I agree. However I'm not as cool as an American rap singer, so am unable to influence anyone other than my daughters, whereas he will influence a generation.

If English was revised so that the sounds and the spelling was more coherent, it's simple verb structures and already massive global presence would make it totally global within a couple of generations.

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I used to work with a woman (one of those HR managers that we all love) who said aks instead of ask. I felt so embarrassed for her everytime I heard her. We did talk about it one day (after she pulled someone up on their use of grammar) and she told me she honestly couldn't hear what she was saying wrong.

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Well yes, I agree. However I'm not as cool as an American rap singer, so am unable to influence anyone other than my daughters, whereas he will influence a generation.

If English was revised so that the sounds and the spelling was more coherent, it's simple verb structures and already massive global presence would make it totally global within a couple of generations.

Have you heard of Globe-ish? It's the English spoken between two non-native English speakers of different nationalities. It uses about 10% of the vocab of English, but is apparently very good for communicating accurately. Not sure if this is a good thing or not.

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I used to work with a woman (one of those HR managers that we all love) who said aks instead of ask.  I felt so embarrassed for her everytime I heard her.  We did talk about it one day (after she pulled someone up on their use of grammar) and she told me she honestly couldn't hear what she was saying wrong.

That's a West Indian thing isn't it ?

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Exactly. I get very exercised by these people who don't pronounce the 'r' in words like "fire" and "hard". And as for people who pronounce "Wales" and "whales" the same way ...

I didn't know that there was a difference.

I got sent off to a speech therapist as a child. Not that it did any good. Always had trouble with my Th's sounding like F's. I never realised until later that to pronounce the Th you need to stick your tongue towards the back of your teeth. I still struggle to do it subtly. I've realised that the soft lazy vowels of the accent I grew up in didn't help me in the slightest. I've decided as an adult that I am going to take command of my own accent and how I pronounce things. It's difficult though. It's too easy to say strawbrees instead than strawberries. Or Grarse instead of grass. Not that I am aiming for any particular accent, just trying to rid myself of vestiges of an accent that is of no use to me. It really bugged me how I used to say proply instead of properly. I notice David Cameron says that too and hearing it just grates on my nerves.

My dad's German and so has trouble pronouncing Th's and I was raised to have received pronunciation.

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That's a West Indian thing isn't it ?

We've been here before. Hundreds of years ago both aks and ask were standard pronunciations of the same word, but in different parts of the country. The theory is that many of the slave owners in the West Indies were Englishmen who used the "aks" form, and that that was then passed on to their slaves, where it's remained in use ever since.

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I didn't know that there was a difference.

Between "Wales" and "whales"? In the unlikely event that you run into someone with a Scots accent, get them to say both words to you (and maybe also where/wear, while/wile, why/Y and so on).

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Have you heard of Globe-ish? It's the English spoken between two non-native English speakers of different nationalities. It uses about 10% of the vocab of English, but is apparently very good for communicating accurately. Not sure if this is a good thing or not.

I've noticed that there's academic-ish. Most university departments are full of foreigners, mainly Europeans, who do not speak English as their first language. So they all try to learn from each other. I find when I have to present I can adopt strange ways of pronouncing things and I don't know why even at the time. If I do move to Germany in the future I don't know what that will do to my accent.

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  • 201 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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