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U S Income Gaps Between Rich And Everyone Else More Than Tripled In Last 30 Years

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http://www.cbpp.org/...y+Priorities%29

brief excerpt.........

The gaps in after-tax income between the richest 1 percent of Americans and the middle and poorest fifths of the country more than tripled between 1979 and 2007 (the period for which these data are available), according to data the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) issued last week. Taken together with prior research, the new data suggest greater income concentration at the top of the income scale than at any time since 1928.

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must......cut......'benefits'........

Edited by Red Karma

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Guest The Relaxation Suite

Depending on one's political beliefs, one could see this either as the purest form of capitalism and fairest society on earth, or an absolute outrageous example of theft, corruption, and nepotism.

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Depending on one's political beliefs, one could see this either as the purest form of capitalism and fairest society on earth, or an absolute outrageous example of theft, corruption, and nepotism.

They shot the 'purest form capitalism' thing in the foot by bailing out wall street who then used the money to pay themselves record bonuses.

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The United States of America is the Bourbon France of the 21st century, it'll either greatly diminish or collapse as a powerful nation in the relatively near future if it carries on like this, forty years tops.

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Clearly you are some sort of communist...

;)

More seriously, this should be put on the tele as the test pattern. It'd be a red pill moment I am sure for many.

Edited by D'oh

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They shot the 'purest form capitalism' thing in the foot by bailing out wall street who then used the money to pay themselves record bonuses.

The same exact thing Gordon Brown gave to this nation through his economic "miracle" of HPI and record levels of unfunded debt. A game for the rich to get more wealth than productive activity could ever provide. A way for banksters to magic billions through "innovative" financial "products" that were nothing more than forged banknotes. A game the rich could enjoy at the expense of the less rich who played the game by borrowing their way to wealth.

On a micro level in the UK, BTL promised those rich enough to be "entrepreneurs" never ending wealth based on a PONZI system. Buy one and the rest are funded by the one that went before. Pretty soon you end up with 100 for no work and no personal outlay.

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The same exact thing Gordon Brown gave to this nation through his economic "miracle" of HPI and record levels of unfunded debt.  A game for the rich to get more wealth than productive activity could ever provide.  A way for banksters to magic billions through "innovative" financial "products" that were nothing more than forged banknotes.  A game the rich could enjoy at the expense of the less rich who played the game by borrowing their way to wealth.

On a micro level in the UK, BTL promised those rich enough to be "entrepreneurs" never ending wealth based on a PONZI system.  Buy one and the rest are funded by the one that went before.  Pretty soon you end up with 100 for no work and no personal outlay.

Indeed, why not just go the whole hog and print £1bn notes out of thin air then given them straight to the banksters. That is what Brown's policy amounted to.

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Is there any info combining increase in debt for these income groups. How many in the top 1% saw their debts increase?

The debt is clearly owned by all the lower and middle rungs, the monetary system we use makes it thus, this gap is the natural product of expanding credit which always finds it way into asset prices. Of course the market tried to correct this 2 years ago but the govt in their wisdom attempted the largest transfer of wealth in History from poor to rich by bailing out the banks. Clearly though it cant work because it is this very imbalance that stops the economy functioning. As the debt is defaulted over the coming years this Gap thats grown over the last 40 years will naturally collapse along with credit, the same as the gap that was created in the 20s collapsed. The finance industry will reduce back to its pre bubble pre 80s era of functioning like a utility (probably about 30% of its current size) and the world will be a better place for all our Kids and Grand kids hopefully, until the next bunch of fckwits think they are smart enough to beat the market, probably coinciding with when the current unfortunate fckers (us) who are going to live through this have died and the pain has been long forgotten

In short the Gap is a pure function of poor taxation distribution during a credit expansion

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

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The same exact thing Gordon Brown gave to this nation through his economic "miracle" of HPI and record levels of unfunded debt. A game for the rich to get more wealth than productive activity could ever provide. A way for banksters to magic billions through "innovative" financial "products" that were nothing more than forged banknotes. A game the rich could enjoy at the expense of the less rich who played the game by borrowing their way to wealth.

On a micro level in the UK, BTL promised those rich enough to be "entrepreneurs" never ending wealth based on a PONZI system. Buy one and the rest are funded by the one that went before. Pretty soon you end up with 100 for no work and no personal outlay.

It has been going on since Regan/Thatcher. Mind you, at least with those you knew you were voting to be shafted by the rich.

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The debt is clearly owned by all the lower and middle rungs, the monetary system we use makes it thus, this gap is the natural product of expanding credit which always finds it way into asset prices. Of course the market tried to correct this 2 years ago but the govt in their wisdom attempted the largest transfer of wealth in History from poor to rich by bailing out the banks. Clearly though it cant work because it is this very imbalance that stops the economy functioning. As the debt is defaulted over the coming years this Gap thats grown over the last 40 years will naturally collapse along with credit, the same as the gap that was created in the 20s collapsed. The finance industry will reduce back to its pre 70s era of functioning like a utility (probably about 30% of its current size) and the world will be a better place for all our Kids and Grand kids hopefully, until the next bunch of fckwits think they are smart enough to beat the market, probably coinciding with when the current lot who are going to live through this have died

In short the Gap is a pure function of poor taxation distribution during a credit expansion

So your saying people like the Glaziers are really rich?

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So your saying people like the Glaziers are really rich?

Personally im sure they are, However part of their wealth will be stored, the rest will be in Leveraged assets, they will lose the second part remaining relatively wealthy. The bankruptcy system in place is set up to protect the stored wealth, this bankruptcy protection system which promotes stupidity and excessive risk may or may not change coming out of the other side of this if the social will forces it to politically, depends how bad everyone is hurt

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

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A few other data points would be helpful :

1. How much migration has occurred between quintiles?

2. Do we have similar data for the UK?

3. What proportion of the lowest quintile is economically active?

4. Do we have similar data for China, India, Korea, Brazil etc?

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A few other data points would be helpful :

1. How much migration has occurred between quintiles?

2. Do we have similar data for the UK?

3. What proportion of the lowest quintile is economically active?

4. Do we have similar data for China, India, Korea, Brazil etc?

Do let us know when you find out.

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A few other data points would be helpful :

1. How much migration has occurred between quintiles?

translation: if people can move between quintiles ponzi levels of inequality are sustainable. Answer, social mobility is down over the same period that ineqaulity has been growing.

2. Do we have similar data for the UK?

translation: maybe the UK is a bastion of equality therefore we have more room for further inequality? Answer, the UK is slightly better than the US but not by much. One of the least unequal societies, norway, is one of the strongest. Germany has lower levels of equality than the US or UK.

3. What proportion of the lowest quintile is economically active?

translation: its their own fault. Answer, the lower quintiles are economically inactive because it is made impossible for them to move to another quintile.

4. Do we have similar data for China, India, Korea, Brazil etc?

translation: these guys are growing healthlily, so if they are as unequal then excessive inequality must be OK. Answer, strong economic growth always increases inequality, since profits are the difference between wages growth and economic growth. Fast growing economies are either thus in earlier stages of the ponzi, or are sustaining their ponzi at the expense of some other patsy who is making up for the demand shortfall created by rampant inequality.

now, I'll quite happily provide figures for all that, but first let us agree what we are looking for and what conclusions we shall reach either way based on the figures provided.

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It is the same in the uk. This is why the economy is in crises and why we are in a recession.

People had to get into massive debt to live a good standard of living because wages had been depressed over the last 30 years under

Thatcher and Reagans neo liberal policies.

So people struggle to pay off their debts, banks run into trouble and the government has to bail them out and to cut the deficit we are told

we have to sacrifice the welfare state.Really what it all boils down to is we are having to resort to drastic measures in order to keep the Capitalist

system going. A system that benefits the few at the cost of the many.

That is why there are riots in Greece and at the G20 in Canada.

Why are people propping up a system that is screwing them over?

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1. How much migration has occurred between quintiles?

translation: if people can move between quintiles ponzi levels of inequality are sustainable. Answer, social mobility is down over the same period that ineqaulity has been growing.

2. Do we have similar data for the UK?

translation: maybe the UK is a bastion of equality therefore we have more room for further inequality? Answer, the UK is slightly better than the US but not by much. One of the least unequal societies, norway, is one of the strongest. Germany has lower levels of inequality [my edit] than the US or UK.

3. What proportion of the lowest quintile is economically active?

translation: its their own fault. Answer, the lower quintiles are economically inactive because it is made impossible for them to move to another quintile.

4. Do we have similar data for China, India, Korea, Brazil etc?

translation: these guys are growing healthlily, so if they are as unequal then excessive inequality must be OK. Answer, strong economic growth always increases inequality, since profits are the difference between wages growth and economic growth. Fast growing economies are either thus in earlier stages of the ponzi, or are sustaining their ponzi at the expense of some other patsy who is making up for the demand shortfall created by rampant inequality.

now, I'll quite happily provide figures for all that, but first let us agree what we are looking for and what conclusions we shall reach either way based on the figures provided.

1. If there is very little economic (as opposed to social) migration (in both directions) then growth is unhealthy as it reflects history rather than merit. The lowest quintile are slightly better off in real terms while the upper quintile is much better off. I have no inherent problem with a larger pie being split unequally if the split is based on merit. I do have a problem if it is based excessively on precedent. I don't have data to draw any conclusions.

2. I know about the relative Gini co-efficients of the US, UK, Germany and Norway. Norway is a slightly exceptional case as they have treated their North Sea oil as a finite national resource with the capacity to provide permanent long term wealth. The UK seems to have treated is North Sea oil as a general revenue source for as long as it lasts.

3. If the wealth generating quintiles have ensured that the non-wealth generating quintiles are no worse off in real terms during a period of significant growth, they have met the minumum standard. I am not convinced that increasing the share of total wealth that goes to the non-productive segment of the economy during booms is sustainable in the long term. The goal ought to be to prevent temporary, speculative bubbles rather than to create the expectation that the gains are in any way permanent. The "benefit trap" may be one of the reasons that the lowest quintile remain trapped. I do not know who we can increase the share of wealth going to the lowest quintile without increasing the size of the benefit trap. I am very open to suggestions.

4. We get back to the division about globalisation here. If we can show that the bottom quintile in developed countries are slightly better off while the bottom quintile and median in developing countries and the owners of capital are much better off, I struggle to see a problem with the process. Wages in places like China are increasing. Official unions in China are waning in influence while unofficial unions are gaining power. The labour market and the natural evolution of rational bargaining between labour and capital seems to be thriving in China.

My questions are less about dogma and more about trying to understand how things actually work in an open system.

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It is the same in the uk. This is why the economy is in crises and why we are in a recession.

People had to get into massive debt to live a good standard of living because wages had been depressed over the last 30 years under

Thatcher and Reagans neo liberal policies.

So people struggle to pay off their debts, banks run into trouble and the government has to bail them out and to cut the deficit we are told

we have to sacrifice the welfare state.Really what it all boils down to is we are having to resort to drastic measures in order to keep the Capitalist

system going. A system that benefits the few at the cost of the many.

That is why there are riots in Greece and at the G20 in Canada.

Why are people propping up a system that is screwing them over?

Bravo!

I've been telling my friends this for the last 3 yrs and they just dont get it! They think I'm nuts. Hopefully, this year they'll start to see the reality of the games the

government and the banks have been playing.

Everyone is stuck on the micro view of the economy because we are all about "us" at then end of the day. So as long as they get the new credit card, the new loan, the opportunity to buy in to the pyramid scheme that is housing, their fine! They've never sat down and asked themselves why does the house that was made for 20k, cost 250 in year 1 and goes up 50k each each year? They think it's there astute business sense, their plucky entrepenuerial skills or just good fortune.. utter ********!

You only have to look at the emprical data and see that the Brown/Greenspan miracle is macro economic fraud at the highest level. Whether its by design or incompetence the results are the same. It has created the largest difference in wealth between the rich and poor that the world has ever seen. Labours own study after 12 yrs in government admitted that they had made the problem worse rather than better! Can you believe that? The Guardian backed, left wing .. so called "socialists" have actually made people relatively poorer than any right wing governement has in history! And the USA is now publicly admitting the same thing. It;s just disgusting. Seriously disgusting.

The facts are we have a fractional reserve system that feeds off credit like a crazed animal. The system needs new debt because it's not backed by anything with a fixed value (i.e. not Gold, Silver etc..). It prices in a return for the debt (interest) which can NEVER EVER be repayed because the system creates money at of thin air. There is NEVER enough money in the system to cover the total debt + interest. The system is ALWAYS INSOLVENT!

Subsequently, the owners of the system (the rich 1% with goverment backed powers to create money out of nothing) get to take ALL THE ASSETS as repayment for money they loned which they never had. Therefore capitalism using the fractional reserve system will ALWAYS produce a mass transfer of wealth from poor to rich. It's like a perfect mathmatical equation that always produces that result no matter how you spin it. It's what Castro fought against (whether you agree with his methods or not), it's the great scam of the last 200yrs.

The system works until all the assets are dried up and no one trusts that the majority of debt out there can be repayed. Then the system shuts down (like a car overheating) and it needs to cool down and start again. Thats what happened in 1930, and this was what was happening now.. until the governments in all the countries decided to make one last heist and rob whatever was left in the poors coffers with the bailout. Rather than have a cool down recession period they would rather make sure all your children/granchildrens money goes to proping up their assets!

Make no mistake. The bailout wasn't about the banks. It was about the newly rich property flipping politicians realising that their assets were going to half in value and deciding to rob the poor further, rather than lose money. Disgusting! The whole process is so "see-through" it would be hilarious if it wasnt so cruel.

"My people perish through lack of knowledge" - never a truer word said!

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The labour market and the natural evolution of rational bargaining between labour and capital seems to be thriving in China.
Foxconn Moving Everyone Except For iPhone Workers To Low-Wage Factories In The Hinterland

Foxconn Technology Group is moving hundreds of thousands of workers away from the Shenzhen factory where it doubled wages after a rash of suicides, according to China Daily.

iPhone workers, who were the center of Western media attention, will get to stay in Shenzhen and enjoy higher wages.

Most other workers will be relocated to the Chinese hinterlands where they will work for unspecified wages.

http://www.businessinsider.com/after-wage-hike-foxconn-moves-majority-of-workers-to-a-different-factory-2010-6

There is no reason to believe that Chinese labour will be immune from the wage arbitrage that other people are subject to. As their wage demands rise, their jobs will be moved to cheaper places.

Until we run out of warm bodies to abuse this process will not stop.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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