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A Perfectly Legitimate Question?

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OK,

The CB's, the rich, the elite, the powers that be have all gotten together and created all this debt, and we the poor, the takers, the debtors have taken it hook line and sinker?

We now work for peanuts, they have/are achieving wage deflation................we are up to out eyeballs in personal and sovereign debt!

So next step, can wages fall any lower, can the cost of servicing debt fall any lower, can taxes fall any lower?

So, anyone for wage rises? Nahhhhhhhh?

Why go to the trouble of creating all this debt if you are going to allow it just to be inflated away, by allowing high wage inflation, after trying so hard for so long to hold wages down, even drop wages.

Taxes will rise to pay for the sovereign debt!

Interest rates will rise to create even more wealth for the issuers of the debt!

Wages will rise at a slower rate making sure we get poorer while servicing the debt, paying more in tax, and paying more for essentials.

Just cannot see the point of this whole exercise for any other outcome?

P.

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panda, the plan is to push wages below the rate of economic contraction, this is how they will continue to extract yield from you and yours.

This will inevitably push many households reckless and prudent alike into bankruptcy and then out of the monetary economy entirely.

Then these people, modern day slaves/serfs, will be re-hired for nothing but food and water.

Cut off benefits, raise taxes (except ton big corps), pull up the drawbridge, recall the lifeboats. Heck, burn the lifeboats.

Thats how you extract yield, take more than you give, when in theory there should be nothing left to give. This will be (is) presented as austerity and prudence, tapping into the populations psyche to embed a healthy does of guilt and sense of obligation to those very same people who created the mess in the first place.

Back to feudalism.

Do you recall calls for austerity before these people were bailed out? Nope, of course - they waited until the crap had been transferred to weak hands. Then - oh look at all that crap you're holding. haven't you been naughty?

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panda, the plan is to push wages below the rate of economic contraction, this is how they will continue to extract yield from you and yours.

This will inevitably push many households reckless and prudent alike into bankruptcy and then out of the monetary economy entirely.

Then these people, modern day slaves/serfs, will be re-hired for nothing but food and water.

Cut off benefits, raise taxes (except ton big corps), pull up the drawbridge, recall the lifeboats. Heck, burn the lifeboats.

Thats how you extract yield, take more than you give, when in theory there should be nothing left to give. This will be (is) presented as austerity and prudence, tapping into the populations psyche to embed a healthy does of guilt and sense of obligation to those very same people who created the mess in the first place.

Back to feudalism.

Do you recall calls for austerity before these people were bailed out? Nope, of course - they waited until the crap had been transferred to weak hands. Then - oh look at all that crap you're holding. haven't you been naughty?

Scepticus,

Yep, i kind of agree with you.

Socialize debt/crap/losses, whack up taxes, gently increase interest rates over a long period of time, but this will be faster than any wage rises, so wage rises will be negative due to the increase in essentials, increase in servicing debt on a asset that is falling in value, but the lent money, the cash borrowed is increasing in value as the money is slowly returning a higher yield due to the cost of cash increasing slowly but at a more rapid pace than the pace of wage increases?

The poor get poorer having been duped into purchasing as overpriced asset at an ultra low rate of interest only to spend a lifetime paying for the debt of the asset falling in value, while wages just do not keep up with the cost of LIFE, so living standards drop!

p

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OK,

Well, you obviously have been on HPC for a lot longer than me, so I assume that you have looked into this in some detail over the years, its all about the Money Changers, Rothshields etc etc

I didnt really believe most of the threads I read about the secret families controlling everything form behind the scenes, it really does seem too far fetched, Until I was having Dinner out in Latvia one night with one of my girlfriends old school friends, who as it happens is high up in Latvia banking system (Originally I had put his post but the internet is a strange place and thought it best not to!! )

Over the course of the night we talked about this, and he gave me some great links with all this information, but the strangest thing was that he was completely convinced about the ruling elite....

Ill try to include a link but if it doesnt work

http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/The.History.of.the.Money.Changers.htm

Sorry if this link has already been discussed, but I havent seen it here....

hopefully it will work, its a 68 page document which briefly outlines how the money changers came into power, I certanly found it very interesting

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The poor get poorer having been duped into purchasing as overpriced asset at an ultra low rate of interest only to spend a lifetime paying for the debt of the asset falling in value, while wages just do not keep up with the cost of LIFE, so living standards drop!

It's a lot wider than just UK housing though. Living standards in the West have to drop - the Chinese will not keep working 24/7 for our benefit forever.

At the moment we get living standards far in excess of theirs. It's not fair, and it won't continue forever. UK house prices are a sideshow on the global stage, whilst the wages vs living standards point is key.

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It's a lot wider than just UK housing though. Living standards in the West have to drop - the Chinese will not keep working 24/7 for our benefit forever.

At the moment we get living standards far in excess of theirs. It's not fair, and it won't continue forever. UK house prices are a sideshow on the global stage, whilst the wages vs living standards point is key.

I kinda agree, but this has all been planned out long before, do you really believe that world goverments havent forecast this already..

before China dont you remember everything was "made in pakistan"

So when China develops its own internal demand we swop to africa or somewhere...

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panda, the plan is to push wages below the rate of economic contraction, this is how they will continue to extract yield from you and yours.

This will inevitably push many households reckless and prudent alike into bankruptcy and then out of the monetary economy entirely.

Then these people, modern day slaves/serfs, will be re-hired for nothing but food and water.

Cut off benefits, raise taxes (except ton big corps), pull up the drawbridge, recall the lifeboats. Heck, burn the lifeboats.

Thats how you extract yield, take more than you give, when in theory there should be nothing left to give. This will be (is) presented as austerity and prudence, tapping into the populations psyche to embed a healthy does of guilt and sense of obligation to those very same people who created the mess in the first place.

Back to feudalism.

Do you recall calls for austerity before these people were bailed out? Nope, of course - they waited until the crap had been transferred to weak hands. Then - oh look at all that crap you're holding. haven't you been naughty?

The problem they will have is that this will destroy the economy, it's a chain without end.

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The problem they will have is that this will destroy the economy, it's a chain without end.

The whole purpose of this 30 odd year exercise was to and has driven down wages, but allowed us all to top up our earning power with borrowings from our asset which inflates in value due to ponzi type growth. This has became viable due to an ever lowering of interest rates.

Now, negative interest rates, falling or stagnating wages, rising taxes, its the drop in living standards Merv was on about. You work your tits off, long hours for low pay, you pay a large amount of these earnings in tax. The rest what is left over you use to service your debt, stay warm and eat. Lovely big ticket items, well they were paid for before by your ever increasing asset, leverage, this has been exceeded. Now they will fall in value, but your debt will not, your debt will rise in cost; both the big ticket items will fall in value, the house, the car, the food blender. But your wages will grow at a slower rate that the rate of interest you pay on servicing your debt. Your wages will also grow at a slower rate than the the rate at which your essentials rise in cost. So you get poorer, feel poorer, but have been duped. Well not all, but many?

Hyperinflation, nope, why; why will they allow us all to get a massive pay rise, up and above. You are now supposed to work two jobs, longer hours, work till you drop, its a drop in living standards now, thats what its all about.

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Hyperinflation, nope, why; why will they allow us all to get a massive pay rise, up and above. You are now supposed to work two jobs, longer hours, work till you drop, its a drop in living standards now, thats what its all about.

the sad fact is that if we all attained maximum purchasing power, equality so to speak, the system would instatly hyperinflate.

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the sad fact is that if we all attained maximum purchasing power, equality so to speak, the system would instatly hyperinflate.

I agree entirely,

Which is why we will not see hyperinflation............................. just maybe modest inflation gently and slowly keeping us all poor.

Food stuffs and essentials on top of the pile increasing above what we call our personal inflation rate.

Wage increments always below the cost of servicing debt, so with a wage increment of say 4%, a base rate of 5.5%, a servicing debt cost of 7%, just look back at 2008 when you could get A FIXED RATE BOND PAYING 7%. Now wages falling, rates for contractors through the floor, still you can get 3% for cash on deposit.

HPC will happen, is happening, but it will be a long drawn out process over many years, while the debt issuers grab as much of your money as possible while you work harder and longer.

Otherwise............................just why create the massive pozi pile of debt, without the elite making the most out of it all?

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Guest UK Debt Slave

OK,

The CB's, the rich, the elite, the powers that be have all gotten together and created all this debt, and we the poor, the takers, the debtors have taken it hook line and sinker?

We now work for peanuts, they have/are achieving wage deflation................we are up to out eyeballs in personal and sovereign debt!

So next step, can wages fall any lower, can the cost of servicing debt fall any lower, can taxes fall any lower?

So, anyone for wage rises? Nahhhhhhhh?

Why go to the trouble of creating all this debt if you are going to allow it just to be inflated away, by allowing high wage inflation, after trying so hard for so long to hold wages down, even drop wages.

Taxes will rise to pay for the sovereign debt!

Interest rates will rise to create even more wealth for the issuers of the debt!

Wages will rise at a slower rate making sure we get poorer while servicing the debt, paying more in tax, and paying more for essentials.

Just cannot see the point of this whole exercise for any other outcome?

P.

The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.

John Maynard Keynes

Our economic system is founded on the principle of stealing the wealth of the people unobserved and transferring that wealth to the rich.

Saddling the people with huge public and private debts just accelerates the process

We have been utterly shafted by the British ruling class and their political stooges basically.

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Why go to the trouble of creating all this debt if you are going to allow it just to be inflated away, by allowing high wage inflation, after trying so hard for so long to hold wages down, even drop wages.

They book the profits long before the actual cash turns up.

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panda, the plan is to push wages below the rate of economic contraction, this is how they will continue to extract yield from you and yours.

This will inevitably push many households reckless and prudent alike into bankruptcy and then out of the monetary economy entirely.

Then these people, modern day slaves/serfs, will be re-hired for nothing but food and water.

Cut off benefits, raise taxes (except ton big corps), pull up the drawbridge, recall the lifeboats. Heck, burn the lifeboats.

Thats how you extract yield, take more than you give, when in theory there should be nothing left to give. This will be (is) presented as austerity and prudence, tapping into the populations psyche to embed a healthy does of guilt and sense of obligation to those very same people who created the mess in the first place.

Back to feudalism.

Do you recall calls for austerity before these people were bailed out? Nope, of course - they waited until the crap had been transferred to weak hands. Then - oh look at all that crap you're holding. haven't you been naughty?

Is it an actual plan - formulated and executed by planning minds - though? Or just the sands of time and happenstance falling where they invariably do because no single central planner can construct and hold together with force of pure will and psychokinesis - an anarchist nirvana to counteract such randomness ;)

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I thought that was illegal now

I'm not up on current affairs - but if you can book earned revenue - I am assuming you can derive profit from this revenue.

Earned revenue being something for which you have provided the service. The actual payment is incidental.

http://www.revenuerecognition.com/industry/banking/

Phantom Revenues

Some commercial banks have created a mortgage for homeowners and investors that has raised concerns in the banking industry and the investment community. It is the option adjustable rate mortgage or “ARM.” In an option ARM, the mortgagor has four monthly payment options; for example:

minimum payment, which doesn’t cover interest changes (resulting in the principal growing each period and creating negative amortization);

interest only, with no interest added to the principal balance;

regular (interest plus principal) payments on a fully amortizable 30-year loan; and

regular (interest plus principal) payments on a fully amortizable 15-year loan.

Because the option ARM is attractive to cash-strapped home buyers and investment-return buyers, most mortgagors chose the minimum payment option. Under that option, the interest rate (which is growing each month) adjusts the loan balance. At some point, the loan principal is reset and a new amortizable balance is set over the 30-year term, resulting in a revised mandatory repayment amount that can readily be three or four times the original monthly payment.

Of concern to bank regulators and those investing in commercial bank stocks is the treatment of such loans by the mortgagees. Under existing GAAP, the mortgagee may book revenue on the option ARM at the fully amortized amount, despite the fact that the mortgagor is only paying the minimum amount (the negative amortization case). This booking of “phantom” future revenues is the disturbing result of option ARMs.

Certainly it has been the case in banking - which you would expect as it is standard accounting practice.

Edited by Alan B'Stard MP

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Is it an actual plan - formulated and executed by planning minds - though? Or just the sands of time and happenstance falling where they invariably do because no single central planner can construct and hold together with force of pure will and psychokinesis - an anarchist nirvana to counteract such randomness ;)

It's an instinct for power aided by blindness of the population due to their upbringings.

Predators and parasites don't need a plan, they just do it. If their victims don't evolve a defence mechanism, they will go right on doing it.

Hell, the wacky anarchists you are on about are probably formations of some sort of said defence mechanism. Spikes for the paw and all that.

And as for the OP - there isn't a plan as such, there are just some behaviours that have worked for decades. Guilt, reciprocity and obligation are ncredibly prevalent in the minds of people in the west, as is a sense of communal obligation, so what you see are people who don't have those things completely taking the piss out of those who do by invoking them and using the invocation to get their own bills paid, while not reciprocating.

Edit - Furthermore those people won't see their communal obligation as the problem, they will see the lack of communal obligation in those who don't have it as the problem. So they will carry right on performing acts of financial and political self immolation until the pain is so bad the truth muct be faced. People who don't feel they owe you because of some madcap false collective will never feel they owe you. There will be no reciprocity from the elite class, that's how they became elite in the first place. End of story.

Edited by Injin

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OK,

Well, you obviously have been on HPC for a lot longer than me, so I assume that you have looked into this in some detail over the years, its all about the Money Changers, Rothshields etc etc

I didnt really believe most of the threads I read about the secret families controlling everything form behind the scenes, it really does seem too far fetched, Until I was having Dinner out in Latvia one night with one of my girlfriends old school friends, who as it happens is high up in Latvia banking system (Originally I had put his post but the internet is a strange place and thought it best not to!! )

Over the course of the night we talked about this, and he gave me some great links with all this information, but the strangest thing was that he was completely convinced about the ruling elite....

Ill try to include a link but if it doesnt work

http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/The.History.of.the.Money.Changers.htm

Sorry if this link has already been discussed, but I havent seen it here....

hopefully it will work, its a 68 page document which briefly outlines how the money changers came into power, I certanly found it very interesting

hmm

wake up

in order to illustrate that the great majority of money is not even printed these days, please see the following speech by the late Lord Beswick which appeared in HANSARD, 27th November 1985, vol. 468, columns 935-939, under the title, "Money Supply and the Private Banking System," which states,

"Lord Beswick rose to call attention to the statement made by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster on 23rd July 1985 that the 96.9 per cent increase in money supply over a five-year period has been created by the private banking system and without Government authority.

The noble Lord said, 'My Lords, on 10th June this year I asked Her Majesty's Government by what amount the money supply had increased in the five-year period to mid-April 1985. Interestingly, they gave me the answer in percentages and not in pounds. Having given him prior notice, perhaps the Minister would be good enough later to give me the answer in money terms.

The Government reply on 10th June was that the increase had been by 101.9 per cent, and that of that very large amount only 5 per cent was accounted for by the state minting of more coins and the printing of more notes. That 96.9 per cent increase represented not only an enormous sum of money but also a crucially important factor in our economy.

I wanted to know by whom it had been created, and on 23rd July I again asked Her Majesty's Government to what extent this increase had Government approval. I was told by the Chancellor of the Duchy, speaking for the Government, 'The 96.9 per cent represented new bank deposits created in the normal course of banking business and no Government authority is necessary for this.'

Had he said that some counterfeiter of coins or forger of notes had been at work there would of course have been an immediate and indignant outcry, yet here we have a government statement that private institutions have created this enormous amount of extra purchasing power and we are expected to accept that it is normal practice and that the government authority does not come into it.

When I asked whether we ought not to consider more deeply who was benefiting from this money-creating power, the Minister said that the implications, though interesting, were maybe too far reaching for Question Time, and so I raise the matter again in debate and hope to get more enlightenment.

The issues are important, they are certainly under-discussed, perhaps not adequately understood, and I hope that I am not being unduly unfair if I say that those who understand the mechanisms often do very well out of them. I make no party point; it is all much bigger and wider than that."

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the sad fact is that if we all attained maximum purchasing power, equality so to speak, the system would instatly hyperinflate.

What is this maximum purchasing power you speak of?

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It's an instinct for power aided by blindness of the population due to their upbringings.

Predators and parasites don't need a plan, they just do it. If their victims don't evolve a defence mechanism, they will go right on doing it.

Hell, the wacky anarchists you are on about are probably formations of some sort of said defence mechanism. Spikes for the paw and all that.

And as for the OP - there isn't a plan as such, there are just some behaviours that have worked for decades. Guilt, reciprocity and obligation are ncredibly prevalent in the minds of people in the west, as is a sense of communal obligation, so what you see are people who don't have those things completely taking the piss out of those who do by invoking them and using the invocation to get their own bills paid, while not reciprocating.

Edit - Furthermore those people won't see their communal obligation as the problem, they will see the lack of communal obligation in those who don't have it as the problem. So they will carry right on performing acts of financial and political self immolation until the pain is so bad the truth muct be faced. People who don't feel they owe you because of some madcap false collective will never feel they owe you. There will be no reciprocity from the elite class, that's how they became elite in the first place. End of story.

Sounds completely reasonable to me.

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This is a question I've been asking myself for a while now.I suspect that the bubble was blown to temporarily hide the negative effects of globalization.If people had felt those effects without the cushion of debt they may have wised up and voted for nationalist parties.

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<br />It's a lot wider than just UK housing though. Living standards in the West have to drop - the Chinese will not keep working 24/7 for our benefit forever.<br /><br />At the moment we get living standards far in excess of theirs. It's not fair, and it won't continue forever. UK house prices are a sideshow on the global stage, whilst the wages vs living standards point is key.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

It's the shadowy 'miDDle-men' who create the disparity betwEEn rich and pOOr countries!

That's where the biGGest profits are silently siphoned oFF!

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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