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Am I the only one who has noticed how the public sector is responding to the budget cuts?

Consider this. The cuts being talked about are reducing 'consultants', stopping big expensive 'IT' projects, and lowering spending. That will end up being a cut in private sector business, not the public sector tumor that has spread across Britain. What we are not hearing is acceptance that some 3-4million scroungers need to be taken off the public payroll and placed on the street where they can either get a job doing something, or producing something, that someone is willing to pay for, or they can sign up for new austerity level dole checks.

It looks like the spending cuts are going to hurt the private sector if this new government fails to ensure the cuts are focused on the right things. We also need to see huge downward adjustment in the pension payments being made to ALL public servants. That's not just future pensions, it's the ones that are already being paid. Only that way will there be fairness in the system.

Others here are correct to suggest that pensions should be capped at a salary level of around 55k, which is the wage of most professionals in the private sector. Frankly, when I hear of public servants being paid +150k it makes me sick and sad. Clearly, the UK has been taken over by PIGS. If you think that's unfair then consider how much a department manager with a billion dollar project under them is paid in an Oil and Gas company - I would guess the salary is around 85k if they work for a contractor. NO public servant should earn more than this - put simply we know they are worth less. It's time for austerity to bite, and, if it hurts, the Unions should be reminded of how corrupt Britain is today....... you have to hold hope for Britain's youth, but frankly I think the public sector and the 'greys' are hell bent on wrecking the country if it means they can retire early and leave their children to suffer.

Be warned - the UK is biggest PIG in the EU and its only a matter of time before the bond markets target the tumor that cant play football.

Edited by bpw

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Guest absolutezero

Am I the only one who has noticed how the public sector is responding to the budget cuts.

Consider this. The cuts being talked about are reducing 'consultants', stopping big expensive 'IT' projects, and lowering spending. That will end up being a cut in private sector business, not the public sector tumor that has spread across Britain. What we are not hearing is acceptance that some 3-4million scroungers need to be taken off the public payroll and placed on the street where they can either get a job doing something, or producing something, that someone is willing to pay for, or they can sign up for new austerity level dole checks.

It looks like the spending cuts are going to hurt the private sector if this new government fails to ensure the cuts are focused on the right things. We also need to see huge downward adjustment in the pension payments being made to ALL public servants. That's not just future pensions, it's the ones that are already being paid. Only that way will there be fairness in the system. Others here are correct to suggest that pensions should be capped at a salary level of around 55k which is the wage of most professionals in the private sector. Frankly, when I hear of public servants being paid +150k it makes me sick and sad. Clearly the UK has been taken over by PIGS. If you think that's unfair then consider how much a department manager with a bln dollar project under them is paid in an Oil and Gas company - I would guess the salary is around 85k if they work for a contractor. NO public servant should earn more than this - put simply we know they are worth less. Its time to auterity to bite and if it hurts then the Unions should be reminded how corrupted Britain is today....... you have to hold hope for Britains youth but frankly I think the public sector and the 'greys' are hell bent on wrecking the country if it means they can retire early and leave their children to suffer.

Be warned - the UK is biggest PIG in the EU and its only a matter of time before the bond markets target the tumor that cant play football.

I hear alcohol helps.

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Am I the only one who has noticed how the public sector is responding to the budget cuts.

Consider this. The cuts being talked about are reducing 'consultants', stopping big expensive 'IT' projects, and lowering spending. That will end up being a cut in private sector business, not the public sector tumor that has spread across Britain. What we are not hearing is acceptance that some 3-4million scroungers need to be taken off the public payroll and placed on the street where they can either get a job doing something, or producing something, that someone is willing to pay for, or they can sign up for new austerity level dole checks.

It looks like the spending cuts are going to hurt the private sector if this new government fails to ensure the cuts are focused on the right things. We also need to see huge downward adjustment in the pension payments being made to ALL public servants. That's not just future pensions, it's the ones that are already being paid. Only that way will there be fairness in the system. Others here are correct to suggest that pensions should be capped at a salary level of around 55k which is the wage of most professionals in the private sector. Frankly, when I hear of public servants being paid +150k it makes me sick and sad. Clearly the UK has been taken over by PIGS. If you think that's unfair then consider how much a department manager with a bln dollar project under them is paid in an Oil and Gas company - I would guess the salary is around 85k if they work for a contractor. NO public servant should earn more than this - put simply we know they are worth less. Its time to auterity to bite and if it hurts then the Unions should be reminded how corrupted Britain is today....... you have to hold hope for Britains youth but frankly I think the public sector and the 'greys' are hell bent on wrecking the country if it means they can retire early and leave their children to suffer.

Be warned - the UK is biggest PIG in the EU and its only a matter of time before the bond markets target the tumor that cant play football.

PIGS == Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain..... do you mean UPIGS or ePIGS ;p ?

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Well cutting contractors will pay back immediately, but my understanding is the problem is the permanent employees and in particular increasing payroll, benefits and pensions for them. Pensions is the real killer and you don't reduce that by getting rid of contractors. And the other interesting thing is why do you need so many contractors in the first place? Regular employees not up to the job in some way or other? So cull the contractors and what will be the fallout. Something isn't going to work right.

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Am I the only one who has noticed how the public sector is responding to the budget cuts.

It looks like the spending cuts are going to hurt the private sector if this new government fails to ensure the cuts are focused on the right things. We also need to see huge downward adjustment in the pension payments being made to ALL public servants. That's not just future pensions, it's the ones that are already being paid. Only that way will there be fairness in the system. Others here are correct to suggest that pensions should be capped at a salary level of around 55k which is the wage of most professionals in the private sector. Frankly, when I hear of public servants being paid +150k it makes me sick and sad. Clearly the UK has been taken over by PIGS. If you think that's unfair then consider how much a department manager with a bln dollar project under them is paid in an Oil and Gas company - I would guess the salary is around 85k if they work for a contractor. NO public servant should earn more than this - put simply we know they are worth less. It's time to austerity to bite, and if it hurts then the Unions should be reminded of how corrupt Britain is today....... you have to hold hope for Britain's youth, but frankly I think the public sector and the 'greys' are hell bent on wrecking the country if it means they can retire early and leave their children to suffer.

Be warned - the UK is biggest PIG in the EU and its only a matter of time before the bond markets target the tumor that cant play football.

We all hope that cuts will happen where they should and not so as to damage what they should not. But Govt are very blunt intsruments and usually ask the wrong people - uhmm, civil servants. This govt has at least asked for opinions on where or how cuts should fall. The salaries you refer to make feel quite ill. They did not exist 20 years ago in the public sector. You would have been working hard in the private sector and taking on the risks associated with it, to get those salaries even at the top end (in real terms) .

The public sector has moved from being 37% of the economy to 52% in just 13 years. 600,000 more people work in it since 1997!!!!!!! We had hospitals and teachers and police then. It beggars belief. Not only that, our manufacturing base has fallen to just 17% of the economy, whilst the city became 38% of it!!! That is why we must rebalance the economy. Even Thatcher did not reduce our manufacturing so much by her policies.

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How does it pay back? You think sacking the people who actually do the work - i.e. produce something - will pay back? I don't. Let's stop the 'staff' vs. contractor fantasy right here. The reason most companies contract out work is it generally results in better competition, and better quality work, which reduces costs. The reason contractors are hired by public servants is they are either unable to, or not willing to do the work. Putting whole swathes of activity under public servants is the road to communism. Britain has come dangerously close to being a socialist state run by PIGs.

I've worked contract for the past 20 yrs and can tell you for sure that most of the good performers are contract and most of the poor performers are staff. Think of it - if you have the choice of going contract to earn a better living, but you're an underperformer, would you take the higher risk route? NO. I've observed some totally appalling behaviors in the past 20 years with staff getting grander ideas about their station as time goes by despite the fact that half of them are lazy or mediocre. It then spreads to their wives, which in some cases making it difficult or impossible to socialize with them. It really is a strange culture we have bread - the hard working, and intelligent, are treated as an underclass - I can tell you as someone who's worked for BP for 20 years it's awful on occasions, and even America's culture of free enterprise and equal opportunity is not enough to overcome the fugly side of human nature. What Britain AND America needs is shock therapy - starting with a massive downsizing of the State. Thats not to say we hobble the NHS, or Medicaid, the police, our armed forces, or our teachers, these are best served by Public Servants. It's the planning departments, diversity advisors, culture vultures, and council no-nothings that should be expunged with no claim against pension rights that put simply they have not earned.

The next step should be a radical change in employment law so that the concept of staff and contractors disappears. All workers should be contractors - one irony is that most CEOs, and corporate Executives are in fact under contract and therefore technically contractors.

The final step will be to break up the 'too big to fail' banks which are run for the benefit of bonus payments, not depositors peace of mind. Banking was a simple business which, under the guise of securitization and derivatives, has been turned into moral poison. These institutions are run by socio-psychopaths without morals or loyalty, just listen to them bleat about leaving the country if they don't get their immoral wages. I also worry at the number of jews that run the largest banks - no I am not an anti-semite, I just want to know where the losses are channeled, and to whom the redistribution of wealth is allocated. Based on what I see in the WSJ there is a clear trend towards cronyism and distortion of public policy towards the middle east - if there is to be peace in our childrens lifetime, then Jews and Arabs need to stop war mongering and get on with living a better life. That means Islamic fundamentalism and Zionism should be replaced by democracy.

Well cutting contractors will pay back immediately, but my understanding is the problem is the permanent employees and in particular increasing payroll, benefits and pensions for them. Pensions is the real killer and you don't reduce that by getting rid of contractors. And the other interesting thing is why do you need so many contractors in the first place? Regular employees not up to the job in some way or other? So cull the contractors and what will be the fallout. Something isn't going to work right.

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How does it pay back? You think sacking the people who actually do the work - i.e. produce something - will pay back?

I think you may be missing the point a bit here- if the contractors are the ones being paid to do things, and you want to stop doing those things to save money, then the contractors are the ones to cut surely?

I'm sure you are right that the people doing the cutting will preserve themselves of course- maybe the govt. should outsource outsourcing? Hire private companies to decide who gets the chop?

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To the OP. I made the same comment the other day in "is the public sector making the wrong sort of cuts"

As far as I can tell, they'll stop all projects and work before they cut staff, the result being a lot of people doing sweet FA, but still on the payroll.

Edited by Mikhail Liebenstein

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We all hope that cuts will happen where they should and not so as to damage what they should not. But Govt are very blunt intsruments and usually ask the wrong people - uhmm, civil servants. This govt has at least asked for opinions on where or how cuts should fall. The salaries you refer to make feel quite ill. They did not exist 20 years ago in the public sector. You would have been working hard in the private sector and taking on the risks associated with it, to get those salaries even at the top end (in real terms) .

The public sector has moved from being 37% of the economy to 52% in just 13 years. 600,000 more people work in it since 1997!!!!!!! We had hospitals and teachers and police then. It beggars belief. Not only that, our manufacturing base has fallen to just 17% of the economy, whilst the city became 38% of it!!! That is why we must rebalance the economy. Even Thatcher did not reduce our manufacturing so much by her policies.

Maths confusing me here . 52% + 38% + 17 % = 108 %

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Maths confusing me here . 52% + 38% + 17 % = 108 %

I think he means finance became 38% of (the 17%) manufacturing.

Stand to be corrected though.

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They'll never get cuts in the public sector while they allow public sector managers to make the decisions.

You need to appoint experienced, independent people who either run, or have run, their own businesses - and let them review sectors of the public sector and let them make the decisions.

No public sector manager is going to put his hands up and say 'Tell you what, we don't need 20 people here, we could make do with 16 and still deliver the essential bits of our service.' The whole way our public sector is funded and managed makes it inevitable that it will never shrink and will always grow.

If you let me loose in my local council - with a mandate to call anyone and everyone to account - 'what do you do, how many times do you do it, how do you drive down costs, give me a list of what you do and tick the ones that are, in your opinion, essential, who could this organisation do without ...' within 3 months I would present a plan to drop head count by 25% without any noticeable affect on services.

The first thing I would do is disband the ludicrous system of Town Councils. We have a Unitary Authority and a Town Council with staff sitting in separate buildings a few hundred yards apart - with separate, highly paid, chief executives. Everything the Town Council does is duplicated on a larger scale at the (much larger) unitary authority just down the road. It would take a week to organise the transfer of services from the Town Council to the unitary authority - that would save a million a year for a kick off.

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They'll never get cuts in the public sector while they allow public sector managers to make the decisions.

The govt. need to hire maybe 20-30 red in tooth and claw hatchet men from the private sector and just set them loose on the public sector.

Cutting contractors while leaving the inefficiencies they were brought in to address in place is just stupid.

Contractors are (usually) hired where the investment in their time results in savings in the long term.

If it was your own business would you cut projects that drive down costs? Or strive to keep the people the projects were going to eliminate on the payroll?

I think not.

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Frankly, when I hear of public servants being paid +150k it makes me sick and sad. Clearly the UK has been taken over by PIGS. If you think that's unfair then consider how much a department manager with a bln dollar project under them is paid in an Oil and Gas company - I would guess the salary is around 85k if they work for a contractor. NO public servant should earn more than this - put simply we know they are worth less.

I think it depends - I would have thought that a top surgeon saving hundreds of lives a year, or someone at the very top of a public sector organisation probably deserves 150k.

However, i'm quite sure you're right that not every 150k earner in the public sector needs to be paid that much.

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Well cutting contractors will pay back immediately, but my understanding is the problem is the permanent employees and in particular increasing payroll, benefits and pensions for them. Pensions is the real killer and you don't reduce that by getting rid of contractors. And the other interesting thing is why do you need so many contractors in the first place? Regular employees not up to the job in some way or other? So cull the contractors and what will be the fallout. Something isn't going to work right.

You need all the consultants because the big consultancy firms do top-notch dinners for MPs. And, of course, outside consultants are always full of bulls**t reasons to employ more consultants excellent ideas to save money and improve service, compared to the people who actually do the job and have relevant professional training.

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The cuts being talked about are reducing 'consultants', stopping big expensive 'IT' projects, and lowering spending. That will end up being a cut in private sector business

well, boo-hoo, the same private sector that has woefully mismanaged or taken the piss out of any public sector IT contract that has passed it's way such as the NHS system.

reading between the lines, this is just a rant from an IT contractor sh*tting themselves the gravy train has hit the red light

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The govt. need to hire maybe 20-30 red in tooth and claw hatchet men from the private sector and just set them loose on the public sector.

Cutting contractors while leaving the inefficiencies they were brought in to address in place is just stupid.

Contractors are (usually) hired where the investment in their time results in savings in the long term.

If it was your own business would you cut projects that drive down costs? Or strive to keep the people the projects were going to eliminate on the payroll?

I think not.

The problem is that every government wants to increase efficiency and bring in private sector working methods etc etc

When I go into a private sector company I always find out what they do, why the do it and how can we improve it through IT. It is very easy to measure cashable savings.

When I go to a local authority I find out what they HAVE to do (e.g. things they are inspected on by central gov), what they'd like to do and how we can improve it. The problem is very rarely with the council itself but rather with central government meddling - for instance 2 of my major recent bugbears:

A lot of councils have invested heavily in Citrix systems whereby staff can dial in from on the road or home, pick up their job sheets and any files they need and go off into the district. Saving trips to and from the office meant 20% more inspections were being done.

However suddenly central government put massive restrictions on what types of data can be accessed via Citrix, bascially nothing that could identify an individual, or in other words pretty much all the data that is useful to councils. There are now lots of councils shutting down systems that worked perfectly well, with tens of thousands of investment in them because someone in whitehall has decided they need super security to satisfy data protection rules.

The new "small government" coaltition has already started to meddle. Every council now has to publish every piece of expenditure over £500 - I don't disagree with the idea - however they haven't anticipated the associated costs. A council spends many millions each year, producing a meaningful line by line breakdown of every item will take a long time, they need to publish this on the web and deal with the many, many FOI requests and supplier contacts that will result from this.

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I think it depends - I would have thought that a top surgeon saving hundreds of lives a year, or someone at the very top of a public sector organisation probably deserves 150k.

However, i'm quite sure you're right that not every 150k earner in the public sector needs to be paid that much.

oh my god I love these threads!

There are one hell of a lot of private sector employs not worth 150k + either. Calling public sector workers parasites (not yourself), scum, etc, is so laughable!

Sell McDonalds to fat kids on low income wages paid by factory owners that want to pay as humanly little as possible to produce crap pieces of plastic that fall apart and no one needs is OF COURSE truly better than parasite public sector employs establishing art and cultural centres in inner city areas trying to bring some kind of recognition that life is not an unending shit stream of corporate marketing and mindless obedience to puerile Disney churned out pop pollution.

Of course public sector workers sometimes are not needed and should be cut. But my god your private sector is wonderful mindset is truly creepy.

Rationalise and streamline ALL of society. Get out of your ghettoes.

Rant over. Love to all.

:)

Edited by digoutabook

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The problem is that every government wants to increase efficiency and bring in private sector working methods etc etc

When I go into a private sector company I always find out what they do, why the do it and how can we improve it through IT. It is very easy to measure cashable savings.

When I go to a local authority I find out what they HAVE to do (e.g. things they are inspected on by central gov), what they'd like to do and how we can improve it. The problem is very rarely with the council itself but rather with central government meddling - for instance 2 of my major recent bugbears:

A lot of councils have invested heavily in Citrix systems whereby staff can dial in from on the road or home, pick up their job sheets and any files they need and go off into the district. Saving trips to and from the office meant 20% more inspections were being done.

However suddenly central government put massive restrictions on what types of data can be accessed via Citrix, bascially nothing that could identify an individual, or in other words pretty much all the data that is useful to councils. There are now lots of councils shutting down systems that worked perfectly well, with tens of thousands of investment in them because someone in whitehall has decided they need super security to satisfy data protection rules.

The new "small government" coaltition has already started to meddle. Every council now has to publish every piece of expenditure over £500 - I don't disagree with the idea - however they haven't anticipated the associated costs. A council spends many millions each year, producing a meaningful line by line breakdown of every item will take a long time, they need to publish this on the web and deal with the many, many FOI requests and supplier contacts that will result from this.

Despite the bile and hatred towards public sector employees shown by the OP, the fact is that every politician has some wheeze in his back pocket and wants to push this through regardless of costs.

The Labour party are famous for their politicians having no idea whatsoever about economics.

This is why we have had an ever growing public sector.

To describe the public sector as parasites ect. is absolute nonsense and seems born out of jealousy, not an understanding of why they are there.

Take the 'Gipsy liaison officers', the 'Ethnic outreach officers', the 'Smoking cessation officers' etc. All came about because a politician thought that they would be a good idea.

Its OK to have huge public protests etc., but does anyone give a thought to how its to be paid for?

Hunting has been banned after much arguement. Now, the ban has to be paid for.

Of course you could abanon these ideals.

Lift the smoking ban.

Legalise hunting,

Ignore ethnic problems

etc,

etc.

etc.

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Poor private sector companies eventually go out of business, breading efficiency through natural selection.

Poor public sector departments just get changed taking must of the non productive people, culture and managment with them.

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  • 140 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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