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Public Sector Pay Freeze, Did It Include Increments?

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Just having a chat with a colleague and they are due an increment over the coming month which means they by default will now get a pay rise.

So the bill for the taxpayer if this is going to continue across the public sector means spending will continue to increase.

So for the public sector workers who automatically get an increment increase have these been stopped or for those that get them is this yearly wage increase going to continue?

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So for the public sector workers who automatically get an increment increase have these been stopped or for those that get them is this yearly wage increase going to continue?

I was thinking about this yesterday when one poster on here mentioned being given a grade increase to overcome the pay freeze. A lot of my customers are public sector (emergency services and police) and have increments so i will ask about today to find an answer.

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I was thinking about this yesterday when one poster on here mentioned being given a grade increase to overcome the pay freeze. A lot of my customers are public sector (emergency services and police) and have increments so i will ask about today to find an answer.

My take (non authoratative) is that staff entitled to increments (many are not especially if a few years in post) will receive them.

The freeze is to cost of living increases at all pay points.

I cannot see grade increases for any reason being widespread in the present climate

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My partner works in education, so I'll let you know what she was telling me last night.

Increments continue as normal, so most teachers will get a pay rise of sorts this year. My missus gets an extra 1500 quid a year starting September. Also, increments will actually increase slightly, as agreed by the previous government, as this has already been taken into account in the school's budget. The pay points probably won't increase next tax year, as per the Tories budget.

Other public sector staff - nurses, doctors, etc - who are on incremental pay scales will go up the scale as normal.

So, despite their moaning, most public sector staff will actually get a pay rise this year.

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Guest BetterOffOnBenefits

I would imagine that increments will happen as they're a part of the contract (ie you are still progressing in your job skills regardless of the economic situation). I don't really see a problem with them. Let's face it, if Fred Goodwins obscene pension is in place thanks to his contract terms, despite what he's done

The cost of living rise (which is usually negotiated by the Unions) will be 0%

Edited by BetterOffOnBenefits

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My partner works in education, so I'll let you know what she was telling me last night.

Increments continue as normal, so most teachers will get a pay rise of sorts this year. My missus gets an extra 1500 quid a year starting September. Also, increments will actually increase slightly, as agreed by the previous government, as this has already been taken into account in the school's budget. The pay points probably won't increase next tax year, as per the Tories budget.

Other public sector staff - nurses, doctors, etc - who are on incremental pay scales will go up the scale as normal.

So, despite their moaning, most public sector staff will actually get a pay rise this year.

Me thinks slightly disgeneous - the incremental pay scales refer to experience - would you suggest that all incremental scales are abolished and people are stuck on the lower end of the scale !? One of my team - an avid rabid hpc poster - earns at least 3 times the bottom end of the teacher's scale and he mostly certainly isn't worth that difference, makes me laugh at his own sense of worth when he posts on here.

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So, despite their moaning, most public sector staff will actually get a pay rise this year.

sh*t!

edit: according to this post from AZ:

Except for teachers.

From September teachers get a 2.3 percent inflationary rise as they are honouring the final year of a 3 year pay deal.

The two years (Sept 2011 and Sept 2012) after that will be 0 percent.

Edited by Si1

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great insight from an old Irish forum - in public sector, they say increments are zero sum:

The whole arguement is non-starter in the first place.

If there are 350,000 public sector workers on incremental pay scales, then all things being equal a small percentage of these will retire. These people will at least be on a incremental level higher than than the lowest point.

All things being equal, these people willl be replaced by new staff who all start their careers on the first point of a pay scale.

The problems arise when extra public sector workers are employed over and above those that leave - this is good in an expanding economy, but when the economy retracts as it is now, there will be a surplus of workers.

But continuing the incremental pay scale as per normal has zero cost effect.

for the moment, messing about with increments is probably irrelevant, for little gain it would really p*ss people off, money can be saved on salaries inother ways, with less overt emotion attached, increments seem so institutionalised in the public sector

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great insight from an old Irish forum - in public sector, they say increments are zero sum:

I will be getting my increment this year afaik, and before you start your tedious ranting I took a less well paid job in higher education for the greater job security and perks like these. Also higher education is not fully tax payer funded anymore by any means. With the cuts coming in, the amount saved through redundancies will dwarf increment spending. It should also be remembered that you need to have been in a job less than 3 or 4 years for it to have an effect, so only recent recruitments really apply. There aren't many jobs going, and what jobs there are are being offered at the bottom of the scale. Increments also have to be done within the budgets allocated so there might be a situation where institutions ask people to forego increments in order to save jobs. The feeling in my office is that there isn't much appetite for striking and no-one really likes the unions. Generally speaking people acknowledge that there are people who are surplus to requirements. Dunno about people outside of my department though.

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Me thinks slightly disgeneous - the incremental pay scales refer to experience - would you suggest that all incremental scales are abolished and people are stuck on the lower end of the scale !? One of my team - an avid rabid hpc poster - earns at least 3 times the bottom end of the teacher's scale and he mostly certainly isn't worth that difference, makes me laugh at his own sense of worth when he posts on here.

I don't have a problem with people moving up their increments - and didn't actually suggest this in my post.

I was merely stating the fact that many in the public sector will get rises this year, even if that rise means moving up their pay scale, in addition to rises already agreed by the previous Labour administration.

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I will be getting my increment this year afaik, and before you start your tedious ranting I took a less well paid job in higher education for the greater job security and perks like these. Also higher education is not fully tax payer funded anymore by any means. With the cuts coming in, the amount saved through redundancies will dwarf increment spending. It should also be remembered that you need to have been in a job less than 3 or 4 years for it to have an effect, so only recent recruitments really apply. There aren't many jobs going, and what jobs there are are being offered at the bottom of the scale. Increments also have to be done within the budgets allocated so there might be a situation where institutions ask people to forego increments in order to save jobs. The feeling in my office is that there isn't much appetite for striking and no-one really likes the unions. Generally speaking people acknowledge that there are people who are surplus to requirements. Dunno about people outside of my department though.

Fair enough

But by saying yes they are rises you are confirming the thread's point. Having said that, in my tedious rant above I pretty much accepted the case for increments.

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hmm some confusion here - i work in finance in the fe sector. i can tell you that increments have made up around 50% of the total 'payrise' cost for at least the last 5 years where i work.

the smallest scale is 4 points, so that is four years, i'd say the average is around 7 points but some roles have as many as 20 points therefore getting 14 years worth of rises regarldess of job progression.

a teachers range is from about 18k (low) all the way up to about 38k.

increments over the last 5 years that i know of means that we have been getting roughly 7% payrises with the cost of living award.

increments will still result in 3%ish payrises for most staff and come at a huge cost due to the point ranges of the jobs that attract them.

tbh, i would like to see them frozen, or better still scrapped.

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Just having a chat with a colleague and they are due an increment over the coming month which means they by default will now get a pay rise.

So the bill for the taxpayer if this is going to continue across the public sector means spending will continue to increase.

So for the public sector workers who automatically get an increment increase have these been stopped or for those that get them is this yearly wage increase going to continue?

Former Inland Revenue colleague has advised me that HMRC staff earning over £21,000 will not be automatically moved up the pay spine from 2011-2012 onwards

So for them at least service increments have stopped.

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Fair enough

But by saying yes they are rises you are confirming the thread's point. Having said that, in my tedious rant above I pretty much accepted the case for increments.

Sorry, I didn't mean you, I mean the usual rabid ranting you get from some on this site. I enjoy your posts, even when I disagree your points are well reasoned. My apologies.

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increments now, but I would not be surprised to see pay restructuring going on to move to performance related pay for any rises. I know the area I am in will head that way eventually (I should know, I work in compensations and benefits....)

i hate annual incremental rise as a service pay mechanism, even though I get them. Don't perform ? Who cares, heres another point on the scale anyway...

Most scales can't be that long nowadays anyway, due to age discrimination. 10 years in the job is not an excuse to pay a lot more.

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Sorry, I didn't mean you, I mean the usual rabid ranting you get from some on this site. I enjoy your posts, even when I disagree your points are well reasoned. My apologies.

cheers. no problemo.

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I wonder about the legality of increments?

In private sector we have been told that it is illegal to pay two people doing the same job different salaries and that a higher salary based on experience could be counted as age discrimination.

However, a relation who is a nurse tells me that they go up an increment within their band every year. There is a review before this happens but it is apparently unheard of in their trust for the review to be anything but a box ticking procedure and increments always happen. Hence nurses doing the same job are getting different salaries dependent on when they entered the NHS.

Also wonder about holiday entitlement in NHS, it increases after 5 years. Is this legal? Someone might come in with years of experience outside the NHS, especially in a non clinical role, and then have a lesser holiday entitlement for doing exactly the same job as someone who has come up within NHS ranks?

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Just having a chat with a colleague and they are due an increment over the coming month which means they by default will now get a pay rise.

So the bill for the taxpayer if this is going to continue across the public sector means spending will continue to increase.

So for the public sector workers who automatically get an increment increase have these been stopped or for those that get them is this yearly wage increase going to continue?

Being an ordinary private secotr worker I am afraid all this talk of incremental increases, in grade increases and cost of living increases has got me a little confused...you see in the private sector it's normally pretty straight forward.. you either get a pay rise or you don't... I wonder if someone could explain it to me, and I hope sincerely that a pay freze for the public sector will mean exactly that.. zilch... I can't see why any rise whatsoever is justified.

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Being an ordinary private secotr worker I am afraid all this talk of incremental increases, in grade increases and cost of living increases has got me a little confused...you see in the private sector it's normally pretty straight forward.. you either get a pay rise or you don't... I wonder if someone could explain it to me, and I hope sincerely that a pay freze for the public sector will mean exactly that.. zilch... I can't see why any rise whatsoever is justified.

I have worked for both the private and public sectors.

My experience is that in the private sector you get paid the same rate as the next chap

doing the same job irrespective of how long you have been there.

In the public sector they have pay scales, and your place on the scale depends on how long you have been there.

Your past experience in the private sector, generally had no bearing on your joining position on the pay scale.

All the pay scales do is save money. Instead of paying the full going rate for the job, you pay them less for a number

of years until they reach the top of the pay scale. Some grades used to have seven increments or more before

you got paid the full rate for the job.

HTH

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I wonder about the legality of increments?

In private sector we have been told that it is illegal to pay two people doing the same job different salaries and that a higher salary based on experience could be counted as age discrimination.

However, a relation who is a nurse tells me that they go up an increment within their band every year. There is a review before this happens but it is apparently unheard of in their trust for the review to be anything but a box ticking procedure and increments always happen. Hence nurses doing the same job are getting different salaries dependent on when they entered the NHS.

Also wonder about holiday entitlement in NHS, it increases after 5 years. Is this legal? Someone might come in with years of experience outside the NHS, especially in a non clinical role, and then have a lesser holiday entitlement for doing exactly the same job as someone who has come up within NHS ranks?

5 years is probably the maximum an employer could get away with in a claim, if they can justify why it is in place. Anymore may be found to be discriminatory.

The poster about market level pay is right, top of the scale should equate to full compentancy in the role. But it doens't really work like that in practice. External candidates (in this area to be honest usually from private sector) come in higher than the bottom point, whereas internal promotion start at the bottom. And both can be as compentent or incompetent as each other!

Another reasons for abolishing all time related service increments and deal in base salary plus non-consolidated performance element, with the base pay getting cost of living when appropriate.

you know, like the rest of the world :)

edit: employer not employee

Edited by digoutabook

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I wonder how general public / private sector employees will react when they read in the paper that a public sector pay freeze actually means pay rises all round.

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I wonder how general public / private sector employees will react when they read in the paper that a public sector pay freeze actually means pay rises all round.

to be fair, not everyone will get an increment. At my work around 30-40% of staff are at the top of their scale, so receive nothing if there is no cost of living.

However, guess which pay bands that is concentrated at, and which ones tend to have more room to continue to increment.......

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  • 149 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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