Lha Capped

[DTMark]

"We are calling on the council to make urgent representations to their friends in the government to think again on this housing benefit cut which could lead to huge social damage to long-standing Westminster families living on low incomes."

LOL - the Council has already publicly stated what a good idea they think this is.

[eco-house-desire]

You could build a house with a couple of years of that sort of money.

Assuming said 5,439 road warriors are living in 4 bedroom houses , the HB bill for 2011-12 will drop from £240 million ..... down to £113 millions.

I think the governments figure of £1.8 billion savings in the life of this parliament is poppy **** - £6 billions a year is more likely going to be the true figure saved from HB.

Jobseeker's Allowance Caseload (Thousands) : Government Office region by Parliamentary Constituency of claimant (Westminster) by Ethnicity of claimant

http://83.244.183.180/100pc/jsa/ccparlc/ethnic/ccgor/a_carate_r_ccparlc_c_ethnic_p_ccgor_london_nov09.html

[kilroy]

Assuming said 5,439 road warriors are living in 4 bedroom houses , the HB bill for 2011-12 will drop from £240 million ..... down to £113 millions.

I think the governments figure of £1.8 billion savings in the life of this parliament is poppy **** - £6 billions a year is more likely going to be the true figure saved from HB.

Jobseeker's Allowance Caseload (Thousands) : Government Office region by Parliamentary Constituency of claimant (Westminster) by Ethnicity of claimant

http://83.244.183.180/100pc/jsa/ccparlc/ethnic/ccgor/a_carate_r_ccparlc_c_ethnic_p_ccgor_london_nov09.html

They need to understate it so they can use the revenue to cushion the blow to the optimistic stamp duty receipts when HPI does not materialise in the way the the OBR think.....

[Sourman]

I know you all just see what you want to see, but as has been mentioned many times it is the high rents demanded by private landlords renting out "investment" properties, that is the real problem. HB will only be paid to landlords who agree to HB tenants moving in, so no you can't just find a property in westminster and move in claiming HB. Rents in London are astronomical, increased over 100% in the past 10 years.

[eco-house-desire]

They need to understate it so they can use the revenue to cushion the blow to the optimistic stamp duty receipts when HPI does not materialise in the way the the OBR think.....

Your theory seems valid:

£399 millions Stamp Duty City of Westminster - £240 millions HB expenditure

untill Scotland is put into the equation

£320 millions Stamp Duty The whole of Scotland - £1.6 billions HB expenditure

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/stamp_duty/table15-5-0809.pdf

[adiep]

For those still interested in this cap, there's an "explanatory memorandum" from the dep of work and pensions available here

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=145609&st=255

Looks like there is some £15 excess that has been paid in the past and will now be removed, this alone is expected to save around £500m a year in 2013.

What a disgraceful waste of taxpayers money...

[kilroy]

For those still interested in this cap, there's an "explanatory memorandum" from the dep of work and pensions available here

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=145609&st=255

Looks like there is some £15 excess that has been paid in the past and will now be removed, this alone is expected to save around £500m a year in 2013.

What a disgraceful waste of taxpayers money...

If I recall, the excess was what the tenant could pocket if they lived in a property cheaper than the lha rate; keeps them I'm lambert and butlers for a short while

[MongerOfDoom]

Looks like there is some £15 excess that has been paid in the past and will now be removed, this alone is expected to save around £500m a year in 2013.

What a disgraceful waste of taxpayers money...

I am not sure it is so bad in comparison to the rest of it. For £15 we get to find out if it's possible to cut LHA by £15.

In the end, there is nothing wrong with giving the lazy scum some incentive to look for cheaper accommodation, if only because then i) I get to save a bit on my rent, and ii) they will probably spend it on something that is highly taxed. I would be in favor of retaining the concession, and repeatedly cutting LHA while at least 25% of claimants willingly choose to live somewhere priced below the limit.

[crash2006]

Because that's the cost in even the cheapest parts of London.

I think it's fair to say to an HB claimant based in London, that they (metaphorically) have to move to end of the tube line. I don't think it's fair to say that they have to move to a dormitory town 30 miles out.

I know that some people don't agree with this view of fairness, but please don't argue this point for the sake of it. ISTM that this change is a great move.

tim

if you move them out and put them together you'll have one hell of a crime rate, difusing them reduces crime., look at the US or any other country that put low class together./

[Si1]

if you move them out and put them together you'll have one hell of a crime rate, difusing them reduces crime., look at the US or any other country that put low class together./

they're already altogether

[Number79]

if you move them out and put them together you'll have one hell of a crime rate, difusing them reduces crime., look at the US or any other country that put low class together./

Move them out? The rest of us living within driving distance of London are happy that their slums keep so many in.

[ingermany]

Move them out? The rest of us living within driving distance of London are happy that their slums keep so many in.

slums in development

No, we have a plan. By my calculation, this should generate around 3 billion a year in housing benefit for an outlay of 500 million. What I don't understand is, if we (the taxpayer) paid to build it, and we will pay people to live in it after the Olympics, why don't we just keep it? Somebody is going to make enormous profits at our expense.

Edited October 3, 2010 by ingermany

[erranta]

Many people commute to central London from Reading etc because they can't afford to buy in London so as working taxpayers they have to move to a dormitory town 30 miles out, why not the HB claimants?

This'll screw up your(& others) 'insular' prejudices then!

The cross-party X organisation, which represents the capital's 32 boroughs and the City of London authority, has calculated that a total of 18,645 households of all kinds would be hit by the cap and that 14,661 of these contain children.

London Councils' chair Jules Pipe, while stressing that "everyone recognises the need to reform the housing benefit system," has asked the government to revise the cap for Inner London or make other arrangements to soften the blow. Challenging the widespread prejudice that housing benefit claimants are mostly unemployed "spongers" Pipe says:

"

Many of the people who will be affected

are in work but on low incomes

and play an important role in keeping London's economy and public services going.

In some Inner London boroughs

as many as

half the families in receipt of this benefit work for a living

, but if they are forced away they may have to give up their jobs."

Are all the spivs in London town going to treble the wages of office/house cleaners - so they can afford to commute in? If they did the workers benefits would be taken away - still non viable.

The only way I see is housing and rents fall to an acceptable level the 'working classes can afford again.

Edited October 3, 2010 by erranta

[erranta]

If I recall, the excess was what the tenant could pocket if they lived in a property cheaper than the lha rate; keeps them I'm lambert and butlers for a short while

I thought they got the Xtra to cover the House rental contract renewal payment every 6 months - which they have to pay to keep the roof over their heads!

It's a part of 'renting' a place - don't cha know?

Edited October 3, 2010 by erranta

[ingermany]

People employed in the public sectior are just the tip of a very big iceberg then? Millions more have their wages subsidized by government. Business can only exist in the southest if its employees are paid largely by government. I wonder how much a retail worker earns from their employer in relation to what they get in benefits? This thread implies that the capital and therefore most of southern UK is reliant on government borrowing to give its workers enough handouts to retain their services. The expectation based on experience is that the subsidy will escalate until it bankrupts the nation. There are just no brakes on the system. The only solution is a year zero type scenario where people are forced out of the capital and made to earn a living.

[jammo]

Is central London now going to see a spate of beautiful old Georgian houses cut up into umpteen bedsits?

"My 4 bed will only net £400 pw in LHA rent.

If I cut it up into 4 bedsits (more likely 5 or 6) then I can make £1,000 / £1,500 pw in LHA rent."

And the house will depreciate in value loads quicker, and you'll have 4 to 6 times the headache, but each to his own

[ingermany]

mod edit quote removed

Problem is, as already posted, a lot of HB recipients aren't deadbeats at all. They do vitally important jobs, and get reasonable wages. It's just that housing costs are totally unaffordable. What government and presure groups ignore is the REASON they are unaffordable. The real reason is that government pays massive amounts of HB, that pushes up rent costs, creating a government funded escalation. The government is the rich bidder in the auction who drives up the prices. They are rich because there is no limit on the amount they can borrow and print.

Solution: cut housing benefit in a totally arbitrary way (reduce it by 50%). Rents will fall. Workers will be able to afford housing without massive benefits. It will not increase homelessness because the total supply of housing will be unchanged (I am not suggesting demolition here). If rents don't cover landlords mortgages they will have to sell, maybe at a loss........that's a free market for you.

[daddybear]

Quite simple, do not grant any immigrant indefinite leave to remain. If they have been unemployed for over a year free repatriation to their country of origin should be provided.