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Why Are Today's Young So Passive?

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Even though we beat down on 'boomers' and the older generation for greed.. you have to give them credit for standing up and fighting for their rights.

Like of the young adults 20-40 in age lucky enough to have a job a huge number work in jobs that pay well below a living wage. It is shameful in a first world nation that someone who works a full time job still needs all sorts of state assistance just to live a subsistence life. I'm talking here the millions of jobs in retailers, call centers, grocers, pharmacies and so on.

Sorry £5.50 an hour part time with no benefits is not acceptable in a first world nation. Yet young adults seem to be happy to work for that without complaint. Not even trying to organize. Or if organized perfectly happy with the fat cat union bosses who do nothing for them.

And for the masses of unemployed young adults, reaching astounding numbers in areas. It is said 40% of 18-24 year old people in Spain not in college are unemployed. 52% in New York city, which is one of the most prosperous areas. And this is the official statistics where it is hard to get on them. Like if you sort of take half a college course you are a 'student'. These young with all the time in the world, where is the organization, where is the demands that a good job be made available?

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And for the masses of unemployed young adults, reaching astounding numbers in areas. It is said 40% of 18-24 year old people in Spain not in college are unemployed. 52% in New York city, which is one of the most prosperous areas. And this is the official statistics where it is hard to get on them. Like if you sort of take half a college course you are a 'student'. These young with all the time in the world, where is the organization, where is the demands that a good job be made available?

Who cares? I got my PS3, money for beer and the World Cup is on. I can live with Mum and Dad forever.

p.s. you ain't gonna get many young people to reply to this thread at this time in the morning!

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Guest Noodle

Even though we beat down on 'boomers' and the older generation for greed.. you have to give them credit for standing up and fighting for their rights.

Like of the young adults 20-40 in age lucky enough to have a job a huge number work in jobs that pay well below a living wage. It is shameful in a first world nation that someone who works a full time job still needs all sorts of state assistance just to live a subsistence life. I'm talking here the millions of jobs in retailers, call centers, grocers, pharmacies and so on.

Sorry £5.50 an hour part time with no benefits is not acceptable in a first world nation. Yet young adults seem to be happy to work for that without complaint. Not even trying to organize. Or if organized perfectly happy with the fat cat union bosses who do nothing for them.

And for the masses of unemployed young adults, reaching astounding numbers in areas. It is said 40% of 18-24 year old people in Spain not in college are unemployed. 52% in New York city, which is one of the most prosperous areas. And this is the official statistics where it is hard to get on them. Like if you sort of take half a college course you are a 'student'. These young with all the time in the world, where is the organization, where is the demands that a good job be made available?

Do what?

Okay you say 1st World nation (whatever that is now) but that's more than most get in a day here. Then you say no benefits. Think about that. They pay how much a year in tax (?) and get the same access to the NHS and everything else.

What would be acceptable?

When I started out, this was in a tough site job too, I was on about £2.77 an hour (this was 14 years ago) post-graduate. This rose to the heady heights of £13,000 a year with the next job (building landfills) most of which got eaten by expenses because the company was a pile of shit.

Admittedly, the rates of unemployment amongst the young are dreadful, but this is a recession (and then a bit) which do happen regularly.

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I can live with Mum and Dad forever.

Really not such a bad idea. Great way to save on costs and the hassle of paying bills/buying property and furniture etc.

Edited by Errol

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Do what?

Okay you say 1st World nation (whatever that is now) but that's more than most get in a day here. Then you say no benefits. Think about that. They pay how much a year in tax (?) and get the same access to the NHS and everything else.

What would be acceptable?

When I started out, this was in a tough site job too, I was on about £2.77 an hour (this was 14 years ago) post-graduate. This rose to the heady heights of £13,000 a year with the next job (building landfills) most of which got eaten by expenses because the company was a pile of shit.

Admittedly, the rates of unemployment amongst the young are dreadful, but this is a recession (and then a bit) which do happen regularly.

I don't mind low pay if its just starting out. Like starting in construction getting apprenticeship.. they are giving you a foot in the door, chance to learn while making a bit of money. But these retail jobs, grocers, small business etc.. are going beyond that and having as the maximum wage a wage that is far below a living wage.

I guess I think even a person of low-average IQ, not great personal skills, not any special valuable gifts, - who is willing to work full time, should do better than subsistence in a first world nation.

I also admit there is other ways to help out on a societal level besides higher wages, like you mentioned free health care which is a good point. There is also subsidised housing which a large and rapidly growing number of young adults are on.

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Guest Noodle

I don't mind low pay if its just starting out. Like starting in construction getting apprenticeship.. they are giving you a foot in the door, chance to learn while making a bit of money. But these retail jobs, grocers, small business etc.. are going beyond that and having as the maximum wage a wage that is far below a living wage.

I guess I think even a person of low-average IQ, not great personal skills, not any special valuable gifts, - who is willing to work full time, should do better than subsistence in a first world nation.

I also admit there is other ways to help out on a societal level besides higher wages, like you mentioned free health care which is a good point. There is also subsidised housing which a large and rapidly growing number of young adults are on.

See where you're coming from.

Best way to deal with this is income tax threshold. Libdems want it to £10k. Make 'em right.

Minimum wage is a double edge sword, but what would the wages be without it? £2.00/hr, £2.85/hr?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Watson

"Give me a dozen healthy infants, well-formed, and my own specified world to bring them up in and I'll guarantee to take any one at random and train him to become any type of specialist I might select – doctor, lawyer, artist, merchant-chief and, yes, even beggar-man and thief, regardless of his talents, penchants, tendencies, abilities, vocations, and race of his ancestors."

http://psychology.about.com/od/classicpsychologystudies/a/little-albert-experiment.htm

http://www.null-hypothesis.co.uk/science//item/little_albert_john_watson_unethical

Little Albert

"We've finally made it to the least ethical experiment of all time. The one where you take an orphaned baby, teach him to be terrified of anything white and furry and then kick him out on the streets. Congratulations John Watson!"

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/

annnd finally -

Their parents protested, formed unions. lobbied the state, voted, marched, chucked bricks and we are where we are. In other words, protesting etc didn't work.

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The work ethic has been replaced by the leisure ethic. I'm in my 50's and this applies to me too.

Another thing that's changed is the general attitude to alcohol. When I was a teenager in the 1970's we did get drunk sometimes, but the idea in those days was that a man or woman could 'take their drink', i.e drink more than their friends without becoming noticeably drunk. Nowadays a lot of young people go binge drinking, where the aim is to get very drunk very rapidly. I don't remember anyone doing that intentionally when I was young. The 24/7 culture didn't really exist when I was young either. Where I lived the pubs shut at 10.30, there were no nightclubs, TV finished before midnight, there was no internet. Many young people worked in physically demanding jobs so they needed to go to bed at a reasonable hour. If we stayed up late all we had to do was sit around chatting or listening to records - which we did sometimes. Parties on New Year's Eve were the only social event where I remember we stayed up into the early hours.

Another thing is that although I officially became an adult when I was 18, the age of majority had been 21 until a year or two previously.

Also, while we've tended to protect children more and more in cotton wool, we've done the opposite with teenagers and young adults.

Edited by blankster

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The work ethic has been replaced by the leisure ethic. I'm in my 50's and this applies to me too.

Another thing that's changed is the general attitude to alcohol. When I was a teenager in the 1970's we did get drunk sometimes, but the idea in those days was that a man or woman could 'take their drink', i.e drink more than their friends without becoming noticeably drunk. Nowadays a lot of young people go binge drinking, where the aim is to get very drunk very rapidly. I don't remember anyone doing that intentionally when I was young.

Aye, back in them days you'd go boozing all night then hop in the sopwith, shoot up a couple of german fockers and get back in time for brandy at elevensies.

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Aye, back in them days you'd go boozing all night then hop in the sopwith, shoot up a couple of german fockers and get back in time for brandy at elevensies.

I'm talking about 1971, not 1917!!! :lol:

I'm sure that it was much less common for people to drink with the intention of getting smashed in the way that goes on now. You didn't see groups of drunks roaming the streets on Saturday nights like you do now. You were more likely to see one drunk being helped home by a group of relatively sober friends.

That reminds me - we all used to go to pubs under-age and drink. not just when we were 17 but 16 too. Nobody ever questioned us or stopped us. Girls even younger - 14 or 15. Maybe being under-age made us drink responsibly to avoid problems with the police. Under-age drinking was tolerated in those days. I'm sure that the bar staff knew but nobody was bothered. I could walk into any pub in the town where Iived and be served when I was 16. The only time I remember being challenged was when a group of us visited a pub in another town. One of the lads looked very young for his age and we were all refused - the irony is that this lad was the only one of us that was over 18, but he couldn't prove it!

Edited by blankster

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The work ethic has been replaced by the leisure ethic. I'm in my 50's and this applies to me too.

Another thing that's changed is the general attitude to alcohol. When I was a teenager in the 1970's we did get drunk sometimes, but the idea in those days was that a man or woman could 'take their drink', i.e drink more than their friends without becoming noticeably drunk. Nowadays a lot of young people go binge drinking, where the aim is to get very drunk very rapidly. I don't remember anyone doing that intentionally when I was young. The 24/7 culture didn't really exist when I was young either. Where I lived the pubs shut at 10.30, there were no nightclubs, TV finished before midnight, there was no internet. Many young people worked in physically demanding jobs so they needed to go to bed at a reasonable hour. If we stayed up late all we had to do was sit around chatting or listening to records - which we did sometimes. Parties on New Year's Eve were the only social event where I remember we stayed up into the early hours.

Another thing is that although I officially became an adult when I was 18, the age of majority had been 21 until a year or two previously.

Also, while we've tended to protect children more and more in cotton wool, we've done the opposite with teenagers and young adults.

The trend to constant heavy drinking among the young adults is an interesting one. It reminds me of the alcohol problems in communist countries.

I can see going drinking once a week.. but many young adults get hammered drunk 3 or more times a week. And like you said there is also a difference between having a few drinks while out for a special event or with friends.. and binge drinking. It is basically becoming a drug addict which has to have physical and mental repurcussions like lack of drive, among others.

The heavy physical work in the past is a good one. Now machinery does most of it.

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The heavy physical work in the past is a good one. Now machinery does most of it.
The rot set in when they started fitting power steering to lorries!

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The trend to constant heavy drinking among the young adults is an interesting one. It reminds me of the alcohol problems in communist countries.

I can see going drinking once a week.. but many young adults get hammered drunk 3 or more times a week. And like you said there is also a difference between having a few drinks while out for a special event or with friends.. and binge drinking. It is basically becoming a drug addict which has to have physical and mental repurcussions like lack of drive, among others.

The heavy physical work in the past is a good one. Now machinery does most of it.

The drink is self medication due to immense psychological stress.

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The trend to constant heavy drinking among the young adults is an interesting one. It reminds me of the alcohol problems in communist countries.

Perhaps it's because the young feel there is no future, hence might as well spend it all on drugs and sex. I fully recognise that this is not a new phenomenon, but it may be more acute this century compared to the last.

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The drink is self medication due to immense psychological stress.

One thing I agree with you on. Apart from the effects of their drunken behaviour you have to feel some pity for them.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Watson

"Give me a dozen healthy infants, well-formed, and my own specified world to bring them up in and I'll guarantee to take any one at random and train him to become any type of specialist I might select – doctor, lawyer, artist, merchant-chief and, yes, even beggar-man and thief, regardless of his talents, penchants, tendencies, abilities, vocations, and race of his ancestors."

http://psychology.about.com/od/classicpsychologystudies/a/little-albert-experiment.htm

I've noticed the corporate-government machine like the school system teaches in a way to stop organized resistance. One is teaching everyone to follow their own path, not to organize together.

They also redirect revolutionary spirit. Like towards things like anti-racism in some foreign land or global warming. And away from more relavent things to the person, like demanding a decent job with decent pay. British youth seem more concerned with Asian carbon emissions - something they have zero control over and never will.. than their own economic prospects.

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Guest Noodle

Perhaps it's because the young feel there is no future, hence might as well spend it all on drugs and sex. I fully recognise that this is not a new phenomenon, but it may be more acute this century compared to the last.

Say you were a boy born in the 1890's in the UK. Was your future bright and happy?

Or if you were born in say 1918. Happy?

Here's some hints.

WWI, GD1, WWII.

So. Are tha yoof off today predicting, in their great wisdom . . . WWIII?

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Guest Noodle

One thing I agree with you on. Apart from the effects of their drunken behaviour you have to feel some pity for them.

Hey. I like many, many others (yourself included) have endured great psychological stress throughout ours lives. Did we become juicers?

Kids have been on the lash since God was a lad. Booze is cheap.

Come on, you remember. Down the park, Betty Sue and a bottle of Scrumpy Jack! :D

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Good posts blankster.

I'm 43. We were the same in the 1980s - I grew up near Torquay - nightclubs everywhere, but drinks were expensive. And you are right - to lose control when out drinking was never cool. Our sole purpose was to chat up girls!

I think the 14-24 age group get tanked up on vodka at home before hitting the town. Bad behaviour is cool - perhaps because they have no job to go to in the morning, perhaps they are very frustrated and resort to exhibitionist behaviour - mooning, flashing, shouting. It's the Big Brother/Facebook generation - we're all celebrities now!

All very sad.

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Say you were a boy born in the 1890's in the UK. Was your future bright and happy?

Or if you were born in say 1918. Happy?

Here's some hints.

WWI, GD1, WWII.

So. Are tha yoof off today predicting, in their great wisdom . . . WWIII?

Who cares what the reality is? It is the perception that matters. Quality of life this century has never been higher on an overall basis in this country. That doesn't matter, it is the perception.

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That reminds me - we all used to go to pubs under-age and drink. not just when we were 17 but 16 too. Nobody ever questioned us or stopped us.

Good point, i started going to pubs at 14, i was tall but clearly underage. 3 pints and i was well away, but i kept my head down and tried to behave like an adult as i wanted to stay in the pub.

Now they are so strict there is litte chance for most young uns to do this, so they just drink in the streets.Plus drugs are so cheap now and freely available.Cheap than a night in the pub.

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Hey. I like many, many others (yourself included) have endured great psychological stress throughout ours lives. Did we become juicers?

Kids have been on the lash since God was a lad. Booze is cheap.

Come on, you remember. Down the park, Betty Sue and a bottle of Scrumpy Jack! :D

Today's young know instinctively that most of them are going nowhere. They have been brainwashed since birth to accept this as their lot. The drinking is what what stops them from doing what they ought to do but can't as it goes against their programming.

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Guest Noodle

Today's young know instinctively that most of them are going nowhere. They have been brainwashed since birth to accept this as their lot. The drinking is what what stops them from doing what they ought to do but can't as it goes against their programming.

OOOOHHHHH! Minos!

I can't believe you're buying into this tripe.

Now. As I have advised the young men frequenting this forum . . . life planning is crucial to future happiness.

The traditional model of flogging oneself to death to buy a house and buy marry a wife and have kids and a dog and a Ford Mondeo has been disproven as a viable strategy by most of those who have gone before.

So. Plan. In pictures.

You don't need so much of this . . .

bigstockphoto_stack_of_cash_4386771.jpg

to live in this . . .

Caravan_tcm4-759.jpg

. . . and ride one of these.

xr650_angle.jpg

No need to be disheartened youngun's. You're only going to end up like this in the end anyway after 'her'/kids/dog/Mondeo/mortgage have had the lot off you. So skip all that and save yourself the bother.

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Even though we beat down on 'boomers' and the older generation for greed.. you have to give them credit for standing up and fighting for their rights.

Like of the young adults 20-40 in age lucky enough to have a job a huge number work in jobs that pay well below a living wage. It is shameful in a first world nation that someone who works a full time job still needs all sorts of state assistance just to live a subsistence life. I'm talking here the millions of jobs in retailers, call centers, grocers, pharmacies and so on.

Sorry £5.50 an hour part time with no benefits is not acceptable in a first world nation. Yet young adults seem to be happy to work for that without complaint. Not even trying to organize. Or if organized perfectly happy with the fat cat union bosses who do nothing for them.

And for the masses of unemployed young adults, reaching astounding numbers in areas. It is said 40% of 18-24 year old people in Spain not in college are unemployed. 52% in New York city, which is one of the most prosperous areas. And this is the official statistics where it is hard to get on them. Like if you sort of take half a college course you are a 'student'. These young with all the time in the world, where is the organization, where is the demands that a good job be made available?

I was reading this with interest until I read this at the end ... "where is the demands that a good job be made available?"

Why do people think it is someone else's 'job' to provide them with a good, well paid job?

I've run businesses in the past that have provided employment for people. They breeze in at 9.00, expect to work in a pleasant environment, expect a rest area and a little kitchen - oh and a water cooler - expect a full hour for lunch, knock off on the dot at 5.30, expect me to pay them a good salary (having worked at the weekend doing the PAYE) and walk out the door and instantly forget about work.

Whereas I had spent thousands of hours starting and building the business and, even when it was established, still worked around the clock running it.

When I had to deal with Statutory Maternity Pay for part-timers I gave up. Closed the business and just work as a partnership with my wife now.

I will never employ anyone again. Too much work for me. Too much bureaucracy. Too much employer's NI. And, worst of all, too much responsibility. Constantly searching for profitable work so you can pay your employees' wages is not something I'm ever going to do again.

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