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bendy

Pensions

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okay, so most on here probably do/did pay into a pension. why?

we pretty much know that even our pensions are unaffordable (no matter if private or public) and are unsustainable. you put away x in the hope that x will be x+ by the time you reach a certain age. fine with a growing global population of maybe 80:20 (being kind) first:3rd world but that won't last forever.

so, the alternative, work until you drop, does that appeal to anyone? will anyone be proud to tell their grandkids that they lived in a day of sin after being 65 (45 for the 'upper' PS) but you'll have to work it until your gone johnny? no, probably not.

as usual, i don't know where the answer to all this is, but i'm thinking it's in the entitlement thoughts of eduaction, if the monetary system survives. i cannot see why a shelf stacker (very very important job) is worth only a tenth per hour of say, a marketing manager (ignoring complete non jobs here).

does anyone else see pensiona exisiting after 2050, at a push 2020?

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okay, so most on here probably do/did pay into a pension. why?

we pretty much know that even our pensions are unaffordable (no matter if private or public) and are unsustainable. you put away x in the hope that x will be x+ by the time you reach a certain age. fine with a growing global population of maybe 80:20 (being kind) first:3rd world but that won't last forever.

so, the alternative, work until you drop, does that appeal to anyone? will anyone be proud to tell their grandkids that they lived in a day of sin after being 65 (45 for the 'upper' PS) but you'll have to work it until your gone johnny? no, probably not.

as usual, i don't know where the answer to all this is, but i'm thinking it's in the entitlement thoughts of eduaction, if the monetary system survives. i cannot see why a shelf stacker (very very important job) is worth only a tenth per hour of say, a marketing manager (ignoring complete non jobs here).

does anyone else see pensiona exisiting after 2050, at a push 2020?

The problem is that annuities now pay virtually nothing compared to those who retired from 1970-2006. Over a very long view of returns, those persons have gotten more than is actually affordable. Sound familiar. I am ok about working to 70 if it can be 4 of 7.5 hr days a week after 66.

Something draconian needs to happen with state funded employee pensions, existing and future - pass a law toalter it all retrospectively. They should have to contribute much more for them and they should really get one third, not half pay pensions. You would not be able to afford the entitlement to one third easily in the private sector. Try paying amounts like £600 a month for not that much?! Then we could increase the basic state pension slightly too which would make matters fairer.

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okay, so most on here probably do/did pay into a pension. why?

we pretty much know that even our pensions are unaffordable (no matter if private or public) and are unsustainable. you put away x in the hope that x will be x+ by the time you reach a certain age. fine with a growing global population of maybe 80:20 (being kind) first:3rd world but that won't last forever.

so, the alternative, work until you drop, does that appeal to anyone? will anyone be proud to tell their grandkids that they lived in a day of sin after being 65 (45 for the 'upper' PS) but you'll have to work it until your gone johnny? no, probably not.

as usual, i don't know where the answer to all this is, but i'm thinking it's in the entitlement thoughts of eduaction, if the monetary system survives. i cannot see why a shelf stacker (very very important job) is worth only a tenth per hour of say, a marketing manager (ignoring complete non jobs here).

does anyone else see pensiona exisiting after 2050, at a push 2020?

Pensions will soon be a thing of the past. As it is now, a private pension will be unlikely to even return the money you paid in - despite all the promises made on the annual statements. As for the state, it cannot for ever afford to pay pensioners with a dwindling tax base.

The whole thing is tied to the decline of cheap energy, discussed elsewhere in this forum.

It will be increasingly difficult to find safe ways to put away current wealth for future consumption (otherwise known as "savings").

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Pensions have a history of at leart 200 years. The Royal Navy was quite innovative.

Right now, the Tories are mounting a concerted effort to remove pensions from employment packages. As ever, they want a subservient, powerless and poorly rewarded workforce. Pensions, especially in the public sector, set a comparison which is unpalatable to the ' flexible workforce' model.

Will we accept this? Possibly. Post boomers seem prepared to accept any amount of shafting by the managerial class.

I have to say that it was probably Brown's reduction of Pension Fund priviledges which has shown that pensions are no longer a reasonable right of employment. He should have raised income tax instead.

We can have pensions again, they will be different. I do not see them being deferred income anymore. But we can have them if we insist on a more equitble reward for working.

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agree on all them points so far... unless we explore space then anns will never pay out a decent return. their is always the possibility of a declining cost of living to keep the rich poor divide (i know this sounds weird but it would keep the rich, rich), which may still allow for pensions.

most people hate work and i can't see how being 14-24 with a future after education of work until you drop appealing. revolution has to be avoided at all costs, so how? the rich give more, but still keep the same? that'd be my bet.

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The idea of retiring full time on a decent percentage of your salary for 20+ years is looking increasingly unlikely for most of us. There was probably only one generation who could have got away with that.

But for us? Well a flexible semi-retirement approach might work. If when I retired I had a pension fund that paid enough to be able to work flexibly part time for 10 years, and then not work at all once I was really incapable, I'd be happy with that. Of course for that to happen you would have to address ageism in the workplace and increase the number of available jobs so there was enough for the semi-retired and everyone else.

As with much else that is wrong with our economy, high housing costs are part of the problem. If housing costs were lower compared to average income, then when you retire either having bought outright or still renting, a smaller pension would go much further.

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I don't see the problem.

You save money now, and spend it when you get too old to work. Seems simple enough.

If you are worried about the value dropping significantly in real terms in the long run, you could always stick your money into NS&I inflation linked bonds.

That way you get back pretty much exactly what you put in in real terms.. non?

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I don't see the problem.

You save money now, and spend it when you get too old to work. Seems simple enough.

If you are worried about the value dropping significantly in real terms in the long run, you could always stick your money into NS&I inflation linked bonds.

That way you get back pretty much exactly what you put in in real terms.. non?

Yes, until the government decides to lower the returns to practically nothing, locking your money up for longer periods for lower returns, until actually, you'd have been better off keeping it under your mattress. The same as much has happened in Japan.

If your employer doesn't contribute into the pension, there's little point in tying it up with a private company that can go bankrupt ("It's an Equitable Life, Henry!") so it would make sense to put it in NS&I. However if your employer contributes, you lose that possibility with NS&I making it pointless as a pension option.

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Can anyone explain the legality of government (public sector) final value pensions?

If you joined, accepted one and pay in; is it protected?

Yes, I'm paying into one and have been for 20 years. I'd apologise, but not sorry for paying into it for years and staying loyal/being tied to my job for a long time.

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The idea of retiring full time on a decent percentage of your salary for 20+ years is looking increasingly unlikely for most of us. There was probably only one generation who could have got away with that.

But for us? Well a flexible semi-retirement approach might work. If when I retired I had a pension fund that paid enough to be able to work flexibly part time for 10 years, and then not work at all once I was really incapable, I'd be happy with that. Of course for that to happen you would have to address ageism in the workplace and increase the number of available jobs so there was enough for the semi-retired and everyone else.

As with much else that is wrong with our economy, high housing costs are part of the problem. If housing costs were lower compared to average income, then when you retire either having bought outright or still renting, a smaller pension would go much further.

There was a time (not long ago) when your Gran and Grandad lived with you. Mine did and it was brilliant. Really makes your money go far (even the small amount that they had) when you live with somebody. Happy days believe it or not.

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okay, so most on here probably do/did pay into a pension. why?

we pretty much know that even our pensions are unaffordable (no matter if private or public) and are unsustainable. you put away x in the hope that x will be x+ by the time you reach a certain age. fine with a growing global population of maybe 80:20 (being kind) first:3rd world but that won't last forever.

so, the alternative, work until you drop, does that appeal to anyone? will anyone be proud to tell their grandkids that they lived in a day of sin after being 65 (45 for the 'upper' PS) but you'll have to work it until your gone johnny? no, probably not.

as usual, i don't know where the answer to all this is, but i'm thinking it's in the entitlement thoughts of eduaction, if the monetary system survives. i cannot see why a shelf stacker (very very important job) is worth only a tenth per hour of say, a marketing manager (ignoring complete non jobs here).

does anyone else see pensiona exisiting after 2050, at a push 2020?

I don't really see why you're concerned about private pensions. Public unfunded pay-as-you-go pensions are potentially on very shaky ground and if I were a public servant I wouldn't be relying 100% on that pension to see me through. But there are very good reasons for the gov't to continue providing incentives for individuals to save for a pension privately (these have been debated ad nauseum on this site) and good reasons for individuals to do so. Barring outright fraud, with a private pension the money is (and will be) there, the only risk is that investment returns are poor. If returns are low or non-existent for decades to come then that suggests a deflationary environment in which case the non-growth of your pension pot is less of a concern. I can't see any scenario playing out in the future where saving money (which is all pensions are really) becomes futile or unwise or unsustainable. How much you save, under which tax regime, and where you put it will be things to think about, but not the actual act of saving.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10353246.stm

We have no staff pension scheme for our employees as we can't afford it. There are thousands of small to medium firms like ours in the same situation.

Pensions in my opinion are one of the defining examples of unfairness in Labours 'fair society'. In the above link we have private sector workers with no pension who are taxed heavily in order to pay for generous pensions for workers in the public sector.

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The main reason for us caving in and buying a house at stupid high prices was because each year that goes by now is one fewer we can pay back a mortgage before we retire.

My OH and I were happy enough living in our own rented places, me getting acres of child tax credit in return for denying my children a stepmother, until we realised that we would have to pay back a mortgage in 19 years. And that the child tax credit is going to disappear anyway.

Buying a house now means not spending £800 a month on rent when we retire.

My generation was encouraged to travel, live where the work is. This means my grandmother lives in suffolk, my parents in Essex, me in Yorkshire, my brother in Somerset, likely to move to Vermont. My OH's parents live in Surrey and her sister in California.

My 3 children are much more likely to stay close to home and are more likely to look after me when I'm old. That is my pension.

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Pensions have a history of at leart 200 years. The Royal Navy was quite innovative.

Right now, the Tories are mounting a concerted effort to remove pensions from employment packages.

And where is your proof of this outrageous claim?

ISTM that with 75% of companies removing final salary pensions from their workers during the Labour era, there is little left for the Tories to take away.

tim

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I don't pay into a pension, the most generous pension scheme I was asked to join said they would pay in 20p for every £1 I put in.

I looked around saw zero job security and forgot about it.

My dad was also mugged as he gets £100 or so a month a fortune when he started paying into it.

So really I think why bother. Come 2035 Ken will vanish off to a Tokyo black clinic and have most of the worn out body parts replaced with cybernetic parts

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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