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izzy

Time To Claw It Back

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This post comes with a warning: if you are shocked by right-wing sentiments please stop reading here.

Young, educated and hardworking? May as well not bother.

The real problem is the current futility of working for many people in this country. Paying back the student loan, paying rent to BTL landlords, paying exorbitant taxes (income tax, NI, council tax, road tax, VAT, tax on fuel). Paying into a pension fund that might vanish into dust long before you reach retirement (at 70? 75?). House prices out of your reach? Living frugally? Can't rent/buy a house big enough to have children?

Look over your shoulder and see the big, fat benefit culture on your back. Why work? Free housing, no alarm clock (free new car if you can get into the disability racket). Have as many kids as you like - and get paid for it.

Unnatural selection: breed the weak, the lazy, the sick and the feckless.

There's no respect for honest labour anymore. Can't blame them. If my choices were wiping old peoples' butts for £5 an hour or sitting a home in front on Sky TV and getting paid to keep my hands nice and clean, I know which I'd choose.

But…

As the educated worker struggles to produce any offspring at all, the benefit culture breeds a contempt for work and workers.

And..

Who will look after us when we're old?

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something has to be done, we cannot continue not getting benifit for working, we cant all be millionaires most have a basic work till you drop life.Thus its not an excuse for not working hard enough or earning enough, most people will never have that oportunity to become rich enough to lift above the tax and cost of living burden.You are becoming a slave

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I agree with you there and I am left wing. The welfare state was created as a safety net for those in need. And a damn fine idea it was too. It was not created as a viable "career choice" for those who are patently unqualified to do anything other than pro create. When did this happen? My old dear (ma, not wife!) brought up 2 kids with just 15 quid child benefit on top of her low wages.

I think a major benefits shake up is necessary!!

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Izzy

I work for myself - work my **** off - and what makes me puke when I'm coughing up my taxes - at 30 and 41% (NIC class 4s are a pure tax - there isn't even a promise of future benefit from them) - is that the rich don't pay tax. And not just the super-rich - I've seen people boasting on this site about getting out of paying taxes. These for me are the scroungers and the parasites - people who want to live in a functioning society (and, before you scoff, believe me, it's all relative!) but don't want to pay a red cent towards it. They are the ones ripping us off.

You think benefits claimants have a great life - go and be one then and stop whinging! Their lives suck - imagine that, living in a state of dependency, no sense of contol over one's life, nothing exciting to look forward to, no aspiration.

It's always easier to kick down, though, isn't it? I bet you're all simpering and 'how can I be more like you' when you meet some rich **** who keeps all his cash offshore. Very noble. <_<

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Some profound truth here.

AND although it is off topic, it can best be corrected by bringing down the cost of housing, thus borrowing, thus money to the govt, thus ability to pay those who have not earned it.

I think that only the first two children should receive any benefits. Parents who want more should work for it.

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It's a sad enditement of our society that there are so many on benefits, but as far as I'm concerned you can keep your 'kin benefits.

From what I've seen a life on benefits is a complete waste.

I know two people my age who have been on long term benefits.

They don't experience anything, they do nothing and they are going nowhere.

Sad!

Apologies to anyone who genuinely requires a handout from the state.

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The unfortunate truth is where I rejoice in my ability to pay taxes to enable those who sincerely are unable to work to enjoy life, there is a problem.

The problem is that (very unfortunately) if the standard handed out is too high then there are many others who will take advantage and expect me to look after them also. Ultimately there are only a few or us with high taxes working and we no longer have a decent life ourselves.

Hence, unfortunately, the benefits from the state, which has a very poor record of being able to evaluate who does of does not require benefits, must be limited to providing only an aqequate lifestyle. That is one where the beneficieries cannot afford luxuries like smoking or drinking, as I cannot.

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Down here at the bottom of the skills heap, I regularly (ok, daily) get frustrated by working with some really lazy, unmotivated b*st*rds. But I do try to comfort myself with the thought that at least they aren't getting paid to be sat at home with their feet up... well, except when they fancy a convenient Bank Holiday "sicky".

Does that sound bitter & twisted? If not I wasn't trying hard enough. It's a side effect of working every day till next Sunday to help paper over the holiday cracks. :-)

Where were we? Benefits. Any system can and will be abused... that's people for you. I also wonder what jobs there are currently for the proportion of unemployed scroungers (not all unemployed/sick people are scroungers, obviously). Not many judging by current economic contractions.

Maybe we could make some, but that'll involve tax anyway, so it's not ideal... though at least we'd have something to show for the money. Having said that, money put into benefits is spent in our communities just like wages, and does its bit to keep the economy ticking over. It's not as if this money if simply poured down the drain.

There's also an argument for paying assorted lowlife... I mean, under-achieving citizens failed by the education system (obviously) to sit around at the edges of society ready for the next war (coming to a Middle East near you any year now) when we'll need some cannon fodder. The trick is to pay them enough to deter them from a life of crime without paying so much it annoys the folk paying the taxes.

Or something like that. I ought to review and edit this, but it's past my bedtime.

Andrew McP

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I used to be pretty liberal but it seems every week I get more and more sick of the state of this country.

Crime seems to be rampant - especially thefts and violence.

Booze culture seems out of control.

Immigration is out of control.

We live in an idiot culture serviced by debt and easy credit.

And it has never been more expensive to buy a roof over your head in this dog of a country!?

WTF!?

If it wasnt for football I think I'd leave! :lol:

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Working people should naturally be better off than those who can't work or don't work. However, I am not convinced that this is the case in our society.

I have seen many cases of women without partners for example with children who have thought about getting jobs or gone back to work - only to find out that they are better off on benefits.

Also, I think that the benefit system has swung way too far in the direction of way too much is handed out to groups such as single mothers who basically make a career choice to have a kid so at least they get a type of freedom in being able to move away from home and have their own place.

Whereas single working people without children, may now have to stay at home until the age of 45.....

If this government doesn't offer some incentive to young working people, I do wonder how many muggings will keep working for nothing, just paying the bills forever.....with no hope of the basic needs or desires such as being able to buy your own home (no one is talking about palaces just a fair reward for a fair effort).

In such a culture, honest hardworking people are also basically being outbred by those that make a career choice for a benefit culture as most honest hardworking young people can't actually afford to have children. What will be the end result of this in terms of society overall? Where will crime levels be in 10 or 20 years....

There is a great need for a pressure group of some kind - perhaps focusing solely on housing, perhaps on wider issues for younger people as a whole - student debt, looming pensions crises etc. As this society is being run by a bunch of well off, out of touch, middle to upper class 50 and 60 year old who basically don't have a clue.

Younger hard working people need to start claiming some rights.

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the welfare state is the key to all the problems. Ive worked on large housing estates and although they live off the social their life is a complete mess. the people are at home all day but their homes are in many cases pig styes.

This complete lack of motivation saddens me. Look at the potential that is being thrown away.

The welfare state has also allowed this irresponsible wave of mass immigration. which has never been experienced in this countries history (don't listen to the nulab history of immigration tripe as the numbers dont stack up).

The result of the welfare state is the loss of dignity for working class people. Work gives you a purpose and it is essential for social stability. Low skilled wage earners are scoffed at instead of being treated with respect. They have the motivation to do crap work for crap money instead of relaying on the state.

More should be done to cut welfare and taxes (government jobs are second to the welfare state for destroying talent).

If we have a recession hopefully we can remove this creeping socialism from the government and the media and completely dispose of political correctness. IMHO political correctness is the closest thing to double speak. Bring back open frank free speech.

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Benefit should be worked for - there is enough litter around here to keep many unemployed busy clearing it up - & something they have/had/proposed(?) in the US was that an individual has a maximum of 5 years unemployment benefit across their working life; after that - tough! It needs to be re-emphasised as a privilege & not a right - stop calling it 'entitlement' for a start..(& I am NOT a right-wing supporter, but a low-income earner who resents seeing so many playing the system & taking the proverbial)..

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The result of the welfare state is the loss of dignity for working class people. Work gives you a purpose and it is essential for social stability. Low skilled wage earners are scoffed at instead of being treated with respect. They have the motivation to do crap work for crap money instead of relaying on the state.

I'd like to see income tax allowance raised significantly.

It's a disgrace that someone an 10 grand a year gets hammered with income tax.

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Benefit should be worked for - there is enough litter around here to keep many unemployed busy clearing it up - & something they have/had/proposed(?) in the US was that an individual has a maximum of 5 years unemployment benefit across their working life; after that - tough! It needs to be re-emphasised as a privilege & not a right  - stop calling it 'entitlement' for a start..(& I am NOT a right-wing supporter, but a low-income earner who resents seeing so many playing the system & taking the proverbial)..

I agree, perhaps the answer would be to make people work for benefits. I see nothing wrong with those receiving state help being asked to labour 3 days a week for the state in return. Our parks, streets and hospitals could be spotless; free childcare could be available to all. It could also provide valuable experience and social support for the isolated.

This could also be extended to those of on disability. Two people I know personally:

1)Ex-heroin addict. Damaged leg in accident. On disability. Nothing to do all day. Lovely young man and with appropriate help and support could be a useful member of society.

2)MS sufferer. Used to do a physical job before struck down with MS. Lonely. Isolated. Bored to death?

I don’t disagree with spending money on the needy. I just think we should spend it well.

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I agree, perhaps the answer would be to make people work for benefits. I see nothing wrong with those receiving state help being asked to labour 3 days a week for the state in return. Our parks, streets and hospitals could be spotless; free childcare could be available to all. It could also provide valuable experience and social support for the isolated.

It's a terrific idea in principle, completely unworkable, however. Would you want your children looked after by people who had to do it in order to claim their benefits? How would you equate those people looking after streets, parks and cleaning hospitals in order to qualify for benefits with those who do it for a job? A wonderful theory that has no practical application whatsoever.

Perhaps I could ask all of you who think there is such a vast number of people perfectly capable of working living on benefits why there is such a low level of unemployment? And a glib response of fudged figures isn't acceptable.

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I'd like to see income tax allowance raised significantly.

It's a disgrace that someone an 10 grand a year gets hammered with income tax.

It really is - the burden between personal allowance and 30-odd grand is totally disproportionate. The 10% band should be increased to 20 grand, the 22% band should go up to forty. The LibDem's 50% band starting at 100 grand is a good idea, then there should be 5% increments every 250,000 up to a million squid.

Quick chorus of 'If I ruled the world'... :)

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It really is - the burden between personal allowance and 30-odd grand is totally disproportionate. The 10% band should be increased to 20 grand, the 22% band should go up to forty. The LibDem's 50% band starting at 100 grand is a good idea, then there should be 5% increments every 250,000 up to a million squid.

Quick chorus of 'If I ruled the world'...  :)

Don't know about if you ruled the world, if you stood for parliament on that basis, I'd vote for you.

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I agree, perhaps the answer would be to make people work for benefits. I see nothing wrong with those receiving state help being asked to labour 3 days a week for the state in return. Our parks, streets and hospitals could be spotless; free childcare could be available to all. It could also provide valuable experience and social support for the isolated.

It's known as "Work for the Dole" in Australia and anyone who refuses without a damn good reason loses their benefits.

Only problem is that some of the actual work that gets done is a bit dubious in terms of usefulness but at least SOMETHING useful is done. Quite a bit of it is directed at planting trees, cleaning up the environment etc.

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From what I've seen a life on benefits is a complete waste.

I know two people my age who have been on long term benefits.

They don't experience anything, they do nothing and they are going nowhere.

Sad!

Apologies to anyone who genuinely requires a handout from the state.

It's what you make of it. For an ignorant lazy person it's clearly a waste. For somebody intelligent who wants to make use of the free time (after all we only live once) by reading/learning/playing golf.walking whatever tickles their fancy, it's not a waste and it can have direction.

When I'm on my death bed, I probably won't be saying "Thank God I spent those years working for nothing when I could be paid to do nothing(or something!)."

Take a look at this article, posted before regading the flaws in modern day social security:

http://www.mises.org/story/1831

"Modern social security schemes are conceived as financial flow systems. They regulate the flow of financial funds between the so-called “active” part of the population to the “inactive” part: between the young and the old, the healthy and the sick, and with welfare payments between the haves and the have-nots. It is obvious that such a system must move toward a crisis, when the proportion between these two parts is changing toward a shrinking active part in relation to a growing share of the inactive part of the population.

When the burdens become too high for the active population, those on the margin will opt for becoming inactive, particularly when the benefits on this side are made more attractive. This way, social transfer systems enlarge the number of the needy and reduce the relative share of the active part.

With the induced shift toward dependency, the rates of contributions must rise for the active part of the population, and fewer funds are left in order to maintain and improve the productive base of the economy. The expansion of the social transfer system thus undermines the foundation on which the system depends. With the destruction of its own economic base, social security produces its permanent financial crisis."

This is where we are now. Social security destroying it's own economic base.

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It's a sad enditement of our society that there are so many on benefits, but as far as I'm concerned you can keep your 'kin benefits.

From what I've seen a life on benefits is a complete waste.

I know two people my age who have been on long term benefits.

They don't experience anything, they do nothing and they are going nowhere.

Sad!

Apologies to anyone who genuinely requires a handout from the state.

Agreed - I'd like to counter some of the negativity on here. The people I know who are on benefits are utterly miserable and are in my view clinically depressed, and see little point in trying to get work outside of the fields they are qualified for. They're experienced people who are too old to switch careers without taking what they see as demeaning jobs.

I can anticipate the "why don't they just get a job, then?" messages, but if you know anything about depression you wouldn't ask.

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Agreed - I'd like to counter some of the negativity on here. The people I know who are on benefits are utterly miserable and are in my view clinically depressed, and see little point in trying to get work outside of the fields they are qualified for. They're experienced people who are too old to switch careers without taking what they see as demeaning jobs.

I can anticipate the "why don't they just get a job, then?" messages, but if you know anything about depression you wouldn't ask.

All the ones i know fall into 2 catagories, single mothers with their partners , drug users. There are some single mother drug users but not many so i won't use up a whole catgory for them.

None of them are miserable apart from the daliy moans of "i wish i was f*ckin rich aint it", and "oOOOooo look at you being all posh using words like sophistimacated".

To expand the sterotype i do live on a council estate. Needless to say there are some real decent people but the majority are scum who think the world owes them something.

It is their god given right to be able to collect money for nothing.

Im not knocking people on benifits - my mum (me / we) were on benifits all through my childhood, my mum worked wiping old peoples a**es and clearing up their p*ss, we used to grow our own veg because it costed nothing, i used to have the typical thick NHS glasses, free school dinners, My mum used to walk for miles to the shop and carry back a weeks shopping in the rain / snow, our xmas presents were given to us by social security people.

My mum worked a demeaning job, she was not happy to do so, she hated it but she done it nonetheless. I seen her break down in tears more than once but she kept picking herself back up and if she did get depressed she worked through it because she had children to bring up.

We we're poor and it's people like that who i want my tax money to go to, not the lazy b*sturd druggies.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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