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Benefits To Be Frozen

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In the telegraph today are plans to freeze benefit payments. At the same time they are about to lower corporation tax. We have millions on the dole some of which have recently lost jobs. Is it right to punish the poorest sector of society. Some of the unemployed would have paid thousands in contributions.

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In the telegraph today are plans to freeze benefit payments. At the same time they are about to lower corporation tax. We have millions on the dole some of which have recently lost jobs. Is it right to punish the poorest sector of society. Some of the unemployed would have paid thousands in contributions.

Look into what Harding did in the 20s Depression in the US:

Then President Harding assumed office on March 4, 1921 the United States was in the midst of a post war economic depression. By 1920, unemployment had jumped up to 12 percent and the GNP had dropped by 17 percent. Harding ignored Secretary of Commerce Herbert Hoover's recommendation for proactive federal intervention; rather Harding cut tax rates for all groups and reduced the national debt. Recovery began to take place in summer of 1921; by 1922 unemployment receded to 6.4 percent; by 1923 the unemployment rate was 2.4 percent. Economist Benjamin Anderson writes, "In 1920–21 we [the U.S.] took our losses, we readjusted our financial structure, we endured our depression, and in August 1921 we started up again. . . . The rally in business production and employment that started in August 1921 was soundly based on a drastic cleaning up of credit weakness, a drastic reduction in the costs of production, and on the free play of private enterprise. It was not based on governmental policy designed to make business good.”[17]

Intervention does not work...we've seen that countless times! But just about everybody ignores what Harding did?

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In the telegraph today are plans to freeze benefit payments. At the same time they are about to lower corporation tax. We have millions on the dole some of which have recently lost jobs. Is it right to punish the poorest sector of society. Some of the unemployed would have paid thousands in contributions.

yes it is right.

'sir' fred goodwins half a million annual taxpayer paid pension has to be found for at least the next 20 years.

at all costs.....

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Most benefits (and state pensions) have effectively been cut over recent years since they have only been uprated by the Rossi Index (RPI excluding housing costs). The RPI reflects price rises in a basket of goods bought by someone with an average income. People with a low income, such as those on benefits, spend a much higher proportion of their income on the essentials of life such as food, water, electricity, gas, etc. which have all risen by more than the RPI. Benefits and pensions should really be uprated by an Essentials Price Index (EPI).

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Most benefits (and state pensions) have effectively been cut over recent years since they have only been uprated by the Rossi Index (RPI excluding housing costs). The RPI reflects price rises in a basket of goods bought by someone with an average income. People with a low income, such as those on benefits, spend a much higher proportion of their income on the essentials of life such as food, water, electricity, gas, etc. which have all risen by more than the RPI. Benefits and pensions should really be uprated by an Essentials Price Index (EPI).

Indexation of benefits against prices is a dubious policy in any case -- both in good times and bad.

If average wages should ever rise faster than prices again, then those who believe in welfare, would doubtless wish to see it expanded accordingly -- they would argue that it was affordable, reasonable, and moral to share the additional prosperity with the disadvantaged.

The converse must also apply now, when times are bad. We can't morally sustain welfare payments designed to share a prosperity that turned out to be hallicinated, while everyone else suffers.

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Indexation of benefits against prices is a dubious policy in any case -- both in good times and bad.

If average wages should ever rise faster than prices again, then those who believe in welfare, would doubtless wish to see it expanded accordingly -- they would argue that it was affordable, reasonable, and moral to share the additional prosperity with the disadvantaged.

The converse must also apply now, when times are bad. We can't morally sustain welfare payments designed to share a prosperity that turned out to be hallicinated, while everyone else suffers.

would you consider fred goodwins RBS 500k annual taxpayer funded pension as welfare ?

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To save this nation's economy we need to do more than merely freeze benefits. we need a large scale cut to the benefits system.

The sooner we start the better. It's going to be tough getting people to look after themselves again. Nonetheless to compete globally it's our only option.

Let's stop meesing round and get on with it. Cut taxes at the same time to allow people to appreciate the benefits of earning a living for themselves and bring this nation back into the 21st century.

Edited by ringledman

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In the telegraph today are plans to freeze benefit payments. At the same time they are about to lower corporation tax. We have millions on the dole some of which have recently lost jobs. Is it right to punish the poorest sector of society. Some of the unemployed would have paid thousands in contributions.

Not if you associate corporation tax with the rich. Or if you associate dole with the poorest section of society. On the other hand, if you see corporation tax as a tax on jobs, and dole as a trap, then it would be evil not to do this.

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In the telegraph today are plans to freeze benefit payments. At the same time they are about to lower corporation tax. We have millions on the dole some of which have recently lost jobs. Is it right to punish the poorest sector of society. Some of the unemployed would have paid thousands in contributions.

Our economy is in a mess because we've spent a decade living far beyond our means on feelgood, and failing to invest. What is now urgent is to invest in the productive economy, which lower corporation tax will help encourage.

If you want to stop the slide, you have to address the questions of how much it will take before we

  1. all see investing in productive business as a better bet than BTL?

  2. favour UK investment over foreign investment?

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Stop making benefits a viable alternative for able bodied people! Enough with fancy TVs, football tickets and Spanish holidays - benefits should mean that the state keeps you alive, nothing more. If you want more, then get off your ass and earn it. Benefits claiming is not just a public sector job - it really is time that was made clear.

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Thats it cut cut cut. Go get a job from the numerous positions left unfilled, hello there are very few jobs where training is provided. We have too many people looking for work as it is. I met quite a few redundant Administrators in the Jobcentre, they are used to constant work quite unsettled not working. I am guessing 20-24k a year are now going for £6hr jobs.

I can only think of doing the below otherwise its a crime wave.

- Junk stupid forms, accountants, and simplify tax for small business/self employment.

- Force all low paid work to be full time if the employee wants it. If your on a low rate your better off on the dole anyway. Hell if some guy wants to work but the employer cant, give him jsa to top it up at least they are working.

- Dump working tax credits why should you not benefit if you do 29 hours but you do if you work 30. Beyond crazy.

- Dump the stupid Employee form filling when applying for a job this is before anyone has seen your CV. I swear, just applying for a job was a pain in the ass.

I will still be interested to hear how they intend to get the workshy into a job when 20-24k Admin staff are taking the low paid work, C.V. vs C.V. who would you hire?

Edited by pathfinder

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Most benefits (and state pensions) have effectively been cut over recent years since they have only been uprated by the Rossi Index (RPI excluding housing costs). The RPI reflects price rises in a basket of goods bought by someone with an average income. People with a low income, such as those on benefits, spend a much higher proportion of their income on the essentials of life such as food, water, electricity, gas, etc. which have all risen by more than the RPI. Benefits and pensions should really be uprated by an Essentials Price Index (EPI).

I am in the process of taking what in real terms (judged by your definition above) will be an 8-9% pay cut over 2008-10. Last year I received a 0.4% pay rise, during which time the RPI was between 4-5%. The same thing is likely to happen this year. Why should the benefit subsistent be shielded from the realities of life but the taxpaying employed have to deal with them?

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To save this nation's economy we need to do more than merely freeze benefits. we need a large scale cut to the benefits system.

The sooner we start the better. It's going to be tough getting people to look after themselves again. Nonetheless to compete globally it's our only option.

Let's stop meesing round and get on with it. Cut taxes at the same time to allow people to appreciate the benefits of earning a living for themselves and bring this nation back into the 21st century.

Exactly.

Raise the income tax threshold to £15k, then abolish tax credits and most other benefits completely. Unemployment benefit should be a short-term safety net.

People should not have the option of not working for a living.

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From the same article:

There will also be measures to ensure entrepreneurs and savers are not heavily penalised by promised rises in Capital Gains Tax . After pressure from senior Tory MPs and supporters, allied to a campaign by The Daily Telegraph, Mr Osborne is expected to announce a “taper” relief system. That would ensure that ordinary savers who may have bought a second home as an investment for retirement are not treated in the same way as the real targets of the rise, wealthy financiers who use CGT to avoid paying full rates of income tax.

Edited by Snafu

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Not if you associate corporation tax with the rich. Or if you associate dole with the poorest section of society. On the other hand, if you see corporation tax as a tax on jobs, and dole as a trap, then it would be evil not to do this.

+ 1

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Benefits cut, taxes raised, rents held steady, mortgages bailed out.

This is the idea you can release a tame animal into the wild with no training and it will magically sort itself out.

Let's come back in a fortnight and bury what's left, shall we?

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Benefits cut, taxes raised, rents held steady, mortgages bailed out.

This is the idea you can release a tame animal into the wild with no training and it will magically sort itself out.

Let's come back in a fortnight and bury what's left, shall we?

A bit like removing government and everything will magically be OK?

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Here is an idea. How about we set up a scheme whereby fake disability claimants can be converted into real disability claimants for a small fee. It seemed to be pretty luctrative in movies such as hostel.

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Here is an idea. How about we set up a scheme whereby fake disability claimants can be converted into real disability claimants for a small fee. It seemed to be pretty luctrative in movies such as hostel.

Why don't we issue permits to the mafioso and drug dealers - that would be an earner too.

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Exactly.

Raise the income tax threshold to £15k, then abolish tax credits and most other benefits completely. Unemployment benefit should be a short-term safety net.

People should not have the option of not working for a living.

but there are no jobs. I can't live on £200 a day let alone 60 a week. I know people who have paid in tens of thousands but no fault of their own are now out of work. Hardly fair to punish these people even more.

I'm going to stop paying my tax and national insurance, there really is no point paying in. I'm sure thousands of self employed will be thinking the same thing.

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  • 258 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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