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Uriah Heap

No Sheffield Forgemasters Thread?

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Like most people on here I would like to see house prices lower.

I am not keen on achieving that by wecking the economy.

I am not a natural Conservative supporter, but my first reaction on the formation of a coalition was that it could be really good. I imagined a progressive government showing a bit of imagination. It hasn't taken long for the scales to fall from my eyes.

Surely surely surely if there were ever a time to have an intervetionist industrial policy it is now? And a strategic capability like casting nuclear power station components - with only one plant in Japan to compete with - must be a great example of where an intervention would be advantageous.

And we are stuck with these guys for five years?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jun/17/spending-cuts-economy-industry

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At £500,000 per job, it wouldn't be a good use of a loan. Why not 'persuade' a bank to lend them, oh sorry, they wouldn't get £80m at 3.5% that way.

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At £500,000 per job, it wouldn't be a good use of a loan. Why not 'persuade' a bank to lend them, oh sorry, they wouldn't get £80m at 3.5% that way.

Yes I don't see any point in loaning them money.

Govt sold off the bit that builds them so NO control over whether they'd get the contracts or not to make parts for nuclear power plants.

It was just a bribe.

yes we need jobs but we can not afford to lend money to companies who the banks won't lend to. (Forgetting govt = banks)

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Like most people on here I would like to see house prices lower.

I am not keen on achieving that by wecking the economy.

I am not a natural Conservative supporter, but my first reaction on the formation of a coalition was that it could be really good. I imagined a progressive government showing a bit of imagination. It hasn't taken long for the scales to fall from my eyes.

Surely surely surely if there were ever a time to have an intervetionist industrial policy it is now? And a strategic capability like casting nuclear power station components - with only one plant in Japan to compete with - must be a great example of where an intervention would be advantageous.

And we are stuck with these guys for five years?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jun/17/spending-cuts-economy-industry

wreck the economy you mean like central planners always do

still at least some of the directors at forgemasters will be getting a smaller bonus

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It is another example of the failure of Capitalism that Forgemasters had to look to Government for the loan.

Why aren't the Banks providing the money, or the markets? Because they follow each other like lemmings and no longer engage in commerce, in risk taking, in growth.

Forgemasters is a scandalous failure of Libcon economics.

We are handing Germany a sector monopoly and a shed load of jobs.

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There is no money left, we can't afford to. It's that simple.

intervention with low interest loan = protectionism which costs the UK money

tariffs = protectionism which is free

Why restict help to forge masters, why not extend 'help' through blanket taffirs on all non-free-floating-currency imports ?

So long as the RMB is not allowed to float & correct bring out the smoot hawley act II asap !

It's us or them, I choose life :-)

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The role of BANKS is to lend money to viable/could-be-viable businesses. Banks should make money through reasonable risks.

It is NOT the role of government.

What other "businesses" should the government be helping? Where do you draw the line? Short-term nonsense.

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Every so often a project needs tax payer cash to get over the initial high developmental production costs.

If Labour had'nt shot it's load on its pet projects ,and bankrupted us, causing massive misallocation

of resources the money may well have been there privately, if money is to be made someone will do it.

The prudent are left with opportunities the profligate miss, timing is everthing, the earlybird catches

the worm,the one eyed dik lacks 20/20 vision.

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At £500,000 per job, it wouldn't be a good use of a loan. Why not 'persuade' a bank to lend them, oh sorry, they wouldn't get £80m at 3.5% that way.

Exactly. If it was profitable, the private sector would be all over it.

Considering we have no money left, it's surprising how much industrial intervention has been offered by Labour. TBH, I wouldn't be half as annoyed if it was offered in exchange for tax rises*; it isn't, it's borrowed from future taxpayers, who aren't old enough to vote 'no'. It's immoral and wrong.

(* If they came clean and said 'your taxes are going up 1% to bail out these suffering industries', then it would be a pure socialist vs capitalist decision. It is cowardly and deceiving to borrow it from future taxpayers in an attempt to make it appear cost free.)

Edited by Traktion

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There is no money left, we can't afford to. It's that simple.

We've given all the money to the banks, so we can't give it to people who make things.

Once we can't avoid buying stuff for our infrastructure in the future, we can buy it off the Germans anyway.

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It highlights the pointlessness of the banking system - they are given the ability to create money and charge interest on it in exchange for ensuring it is allocated in the most efficient way for the economy.

It clearly isn't what they do any more so what is wrong with the government lending directly and cutting out the middle man. In fact why have a middle man at all if they don't take the risks along with the rewards?

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I can see why the banks wouldn't play - the ability of Forgemasters to make money out of the thing would be determined by the government ordering new nuclear power stations via subsidy. Essentially what they may be saying is that they aren't going to build nukes, so there is no point in getting the press.

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I can see why the banks wouldn't play - the ability of Forgemasters to make money out of the thing would be determined by the government ordering new nuclear power stations via subsidy. Essentially what they may be saying is that they aren't going to build nukes, so there is no point in getting the press.

If that's the case, then the decision seems even more reasonable.

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Guest sillybear2

The new press should go ahead but it should be funded by a combination of the nuclear industry, utilities and the banks (some already publicly owned). £80m is not a lot of money to find, not many people would have to dig that deep, The City should take up its role as a funder of industrial development, instead of just concentrating on property and ponzi speculation. Leaving it to the government is a cop out IMHO, they either should be capable of planning their own affairs and if not the entire power industry should be nationalised. If the tax payer has to take all the risks and provide props then it should also receive the profits.

When there's rolling power cuts in a few years people will finally realise our present model of shot term rent seeking and pillaging is no way to run an advanced economy that required longterm planning. There's a lot to be said for a capital base that puts gambling before keeping the lights on, anything that further exposes the bunch of crooks that run this country is a good thing, even if it means some collective hardship.

Edited by sillybear2

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Like most people on here I would like to see house prices lower.

I am not keen on achieving that by wecking the economy.

I am not a natural Conservative supporter, but my first reaction on the formation of a coalition was that it could be really good. I imagined a progressive government showing a bit of imagination. It hasn't taken long for the scales to fall from my eyes.

Surely surely surely if there were ever a time to have an intervetionist industrial policy it is now? And a strategic capability like casting nuclear power station components - with only one plant in Japan to compete with - must be a great example of where an intervention would be advantageous.

And we are stuck with these guys for five years?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jun/17/spending-cuts-economy-industry

Unfortunately when there's no money there's no money... if the case for the sheffiled forgemasters loan was strong and it was going to result in extra profits and work etc etc then of course its a sad thing to lose, but I am sure you can make the case for many of the cuts coming our way. The sad fact is people just have to get used to the fact that there is no money.... Labour squandered what cash there was on false priorities and wastage... without their terrible years in power we might well have been able to embark on a progressive industrial policy... sadly though our ability to afford anything new is severly limited.. balme the revoltingly poor management of the labour government... not the new one.

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Guest sillybear2

We've given all the money to the banks, so we can't give it to people who make things.

Once we can't avoid buying stuff for our infrastructure in the future, we can buy it off the Germans anyway.

The Germans and French already own our utilities and generators, it's up to them to place the orders. As such there will be no new nukes in the UK, only combined cycle gas plants reliant on Putin getting out of the right side of bed, but this will be the most profitable in the shortterm.

Edited by sillybear2

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intervention with low interest loan = protectionism which costs the UK money

tariffs = protectionism which is free

Why restict help to forge masters, why not extend 'help' through blanket taffirs on all non-free-floating-currency imports ?

So long as the RMB is not allowed to float & correct bring out the smoot hawley act II asap !

It's us or them, I choose life :-)

My god, did you actually read what your wrote?

Can I suggest re- registering ?

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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