Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
babesagainstmachines

Policy Exchange Wrong On Public Sector Pay

Recommended Posts

fair enough.forget pay for a moment.do public sector workers retire earlier than private sector?

You can retire whenever you like.....

The local gov pension scheme I was briefly a member of required me to work for 40 years to receive a 50% of final salary scheme.

For this I paid in 6.3% of my salary and the employer put in 12%.

In the private sector the average employer gives 6.2% and the average employee in the private sector gives 3.5%

http://www.employeebenefits.co.uk/item/9534/pg_dtl_art_news/pg_hdr_art/pg_ftr_art

So each local government worker receives around an extra 6% in employer contributions and puts in an extra 2.5% than the average private sector worker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can retire whenever you like.....

The local gov pension scheme I was briefly a member of required me to work for 40 years to receive a 50% of final salary scheme.

For this I paid in 6.3% of my salary and the employer put in 12%.

In the private sector the average employer gives 6.2% and the average employee in the private sector gives 3.5%

http://www.employeebenefits.co.uk/item/9534/pg_dtl_art_news/pg_hdr_art/pg_ftr_art

So each local government worker receives around an extra 6% in employer contributions and puts in an extra 2.5% than the average private sector worker.

but the whole puropes of the public sector is to ensure that the wealth generating private sector is healthy and capable of work.

if either of these two sectors are out of balance(which they presently are by some considerable margin),then the whole house of cards falls down.

what we have now is a very small heavily taxed and regulated portion of the workforce attempting to support people who quite frankly should not be supported.

...and supporting not just the waifs and strays from their own country,but every tom,dick and harry from elsewhere on the globe who sees the benefits system over here as a free ride.WE paid for it with our toil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take education. The justification is the public sector educates people so that the private sector can hire them. The problem is the private sector are getting people they paid to educate educated in things they wouldn't have paid for. Private companies are very careful who they give scholarships/apprenticeships to. Business often people know about real value since they can only sell things that make people's lives easier/longer and they will pay for what's really valuable but they won't pay twice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but the whole puropes of the public sector is to ensure that the wealth generating private sector is healthy and capable of work.

if either of these two sectors are out of balance(which they presently are by some considerable margin),then the whole house of cards falls down.

what we have now is a very small heavily taxed and regulated portion of the workforce attempting to support people who quite frankly should not be supported.

...and supporting not just the waifs and strays from their own country,but every tom,dick and harry from elsewhere on the globe who sees the benefits system over here as a free ride.WE paid for it with our toil.

....well put..... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what we have now is a very small heavily taxed and regulated portion of the workforce attempting to support people who quite frankly should not be supported.

Is that true though?

Corporations have had decades of massive profits it is just they now choose not to share them with either their workers nor the exchequer. There is plenty of money to go around and pay for decent public services and increased salaries for private sector workers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Corporations have had decades of massive profits it is just they now choose not to share them with either their workers nor the exchequer. There is plenty of money to go around and pay for decent public services and increased salaries for private sector workers.

A condition of my current employment contract is that I get a share of the profits. If it's important to you, demand it. Successful employers often insist on it considering it mutually beneficial.

Edited by cica

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can retire whenever you like.....

The local gov pension scheme I was briefly a member of required me to work for 40 years to receive a 50% of final salary scheme.

For this I paid in 6.3% of my salary and the employer put in 12%.

In the private sector the average employer gives 6.2% and the average employee in the private sector gives 3.5%

http://www.employeebenefits.co.uk/item/9534/pg_dtl_art_news/pg_hdr_art/pg_ftr_art

So each local government worker receives around an extra 6% in employer contributions and puts in an extra 2.5% than the average private sector worker.

You paid in Jack sh1t. Your "Employer" took the 18.3% pension contribution off somebody in the private sector under threat of imprisonment if they didn't pony up. If your "Employer" didn't steal so much off them, people in the private sector would be able to make better provision for their own retirement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

grow up. Ever tried to get served at a 'free bar'?

He's right though. The returns to workers are at historic lows amounting to 53% of GDP compared to the long run average of 60%. But its even worse than this since this average masks how income distribution has changed, with the top 20% taking over 50% of the income gains over the last decade.

If we go back to historic norms those on average incomes (~24k in the uk) would be better off in real terms by 20-30% more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The balance between the private and public sector is out of kilter, this needs to be corrected by reducing the size, making sure that the right people are doing the right jobs, seeing that the incompetent and inefficient are retrained or removed. I believe the public sector could make a profit if it is run in a profitable not wasteful way. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can retire whenever you like.....

The local gov pension scheme I was briefly a member of required me to work for 40 years to receive a 50% of final salary scheme.

For this I paid in 6.3% of my salary and the employer put in 12%.

In the private sector the average employer gives 6.2% and the average employee in the private sector gives 3.5%

http://www.employeebenefits.co.uk/item/9534/pg_dtl_art_news/pg_hdr_art/pg_ftr_art

So each local government worker receives around an extra 6% in employer contributions and puts in an extra 2.5% than the average private sector worker.

Your maths is terrible.

Using your own figures, the private sector worker is paying 15.5% towards the pensions while the local authority worker pays only 6.3%. Despite this, the public sector worker gets a bigger pension!

Now you can see how unfair it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fair enough.forget pay for a moment.do public sector workers retire earlier than private sector?

No. They used to though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest happy?

Your maths is terrible.

Using your own figures, the private sector worker is paying 15.5% towards the pensions while the local authority worker pays only 6.3%. Despite this, the public sector worker gets a bigger pension!

Now you can see how unfair it is.

Those who work in the public sector did so after entering a free and fair competition - there's nothing unfair about the process.

All I see here is the politics of envy writ large - those who are robbing you of your pension are laughing all the way to the taxpayer subsidised bank whilst all you do is attack someone else they've robbed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is that true though?

Corporations have had decades of massive profits it is just they now choose not to share them with either their workers nor the exchequer. There is plenty of money to go around and pay for decent public services and increased salaries for private sector workers.

Room 101 for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is that true though?

Corporations have had decades of massive profits it is just they now choose not to share them with either their workers nor the exchequer. There is plenty of money to go around and pay for decent public services and increased salaries for private sector workers.

.....Champagne Socialist ....reality was never in your vocabulary.... <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can retire whenever you like.....

The local gov pension scheme I was briefly a member of required me to work for 40 years to receive a 50% of final salary scheme.

For this I paid in 6.3% of my salary and the employer put in 12%.

In the private sector the average employer gives 6.2% and the average employee in the private sector gives 3.5%

http://www.employeebenefits.co.uk/item/9534/pg_dtl_art_news/pg_hdr_art/pg_ftr_art

So each local government worker receives around an extra 6% in employer contributions and puts in an extra 2.5% than the average private sector worker.

To receive 50% of average (not final) salary after 40 years, you (and your employer, between you) should be contributing about 31%. The difference between your actual 18% in that is magic growth, which (in the absence of real growth, which we've choked) is your pension black hole.

But still, for the average Brit, what you've actually paid for (29% of your average pay), augmented by the basic pension and benefits package, should still leave you quite a lot better-off in retirement than when paying tax, mortgage, and all the costs of working.

I see your private-sector figures are about half your public-sector ones. But does that include those who make no pension contributions, or whose pension is entirely independent of their employer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those who work in the public sector did so after entering a free and fair competition - there's nothing unfair about the process.

Like Fred Goodwin ....

Or the Wilsons ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those who work in the public sector did so after entering a free and fair competition - there's nothing unfair about the process.

I'm not a minority or long-term unemployed, two of the favoured groups for public sector employment - so the process wouldn't be fair for me.

Anyway, saying to a victim of theft, "Why don't you become a robber yourself?" is missing the point . You are trying to defend

the indefensible. We need at least a 50% tax on public sector pensions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a minority or long-term unemployed, two of the favoured groups for public sector employment - so the process wouldn't be fair for me.

This is untrue. It is true that the public sector are supposed to redress the disadvantage that some groups face in trying to get jobs.

However, they usually do not do it and when they do, it is still supposed to be the best candidate appointed after considering possible enhancement of the adjustment.

The public sector is particularly tasked to enable equality because the private sector spectacularly refuses to do so.

We would have higher unemployment and greater disequality if this was not done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it is still supposed to be the best candidate appointed after considering possible enhancement of the adjustment.

I think you're agreeing with me, but it's not 100% clear. What language is that written in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you're agreeing with me, but it's not 100% clear. What language is that written in?

Sorry, lost my way there!

Recruitment is supposed to be blind to sex, ethnicity, etc. Disabled people are supposed to be considered as they would be if a 'reasonable adjustment' was made in the context of their suitability - like the employer giving some extra training, evaluating them on what they can do, rather than their bits of paper and making the workplace accessible. The decision to employ them is made after that adjustment.

Is that better? I have had my lunch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest absolutezero

Oh look.

The private-sector, Daily Mail-believing, bile-spewing nutters have come out to play.

They're just not as high in number as in the other thread. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 140 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.