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9,000 Nhs Managers To Get The Bullet.

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posted earlier didn't seem to laod up for some reason.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287261/Bloated-NHS-stripped-9-000-managers-faces-250m-cuts.html

'Thousands of hospital managers face the sack this year, after figures showed the Health Service has ballooned into one of the world’s biggest employers.

Health Secretary Andrew Lansley is to announce a £250million cut in management costs.

This means around 9,000 NHS posts could be axed before the end of the financial year.

Mr Lansley said he was ‘appalled’ to have discovered that Labour continued to allow NHS management costs – particularly in primary care trusts – to keep rising even as the public finances were plunging into chaos.

Aides suspect that NHS organisations ‘fattened the pig’ ahead of the election, knowing that the axe was likely to fall afterwards, to make it appear that they had tightened belts by simply returning to previous staffing levels.

Official figures show that a record 1.626million people now work for the NHS.

Another 5,000 were hired between January and March this year in the dying days of the Labour government.

There are few employers who have a bigger workforce – only the Chinese Army, Indian Railways and the U.S. giant Wal-Mart, owner of Asda, are thought to outdo them.

Britain’s biggest private sector employer, Tesco, employs just 280,000 in this country.

Mr Lansley said: ‘We will not allow any of the fat added before the election to frustrate our determination to reverse the excessive increases in cost.

‘Every penny saved will be reinvested in NHS care, in order to meet the increasing demands on the NHS and improve the quality of the service.’

Matthew Elliott of the Taxpayers’ Alliance said the figures from the Office for National Statistics were ‘shocking’.

The NHS recruitment drive was in stark contrast to the crisis at private sector firms, with many only surviving the downturn by enforcing recruitment freezes or having mass redundancies.

‘The payroll of the NHS is clearly unsustainable and the numbers cannot keep rising at this rate,’ Mr Elliott said.

‘Many of these employees are not doctors and nurses, they are pen-pushers, managers, administrators.’

Alan Downey, head of public sector at consultants KPMG, said he was also shocked by the recruitment boom.

A decade ago, the NHS employed just 1.2million people. He said the increase was ‘irresponsible in the current climate’.

The latest official figures show the workforce of bureaucrats in the NHS is growing six times as quickly as the number of nurses.

While the number of health service managers went up 12 per cent in one year, the number of nurses increased by less than two per cent – and the number of health visitors plummeted.'

1.626 million on a shrinking tax base?6 times asmany managers hired as nurses?

would love to know a break down of the full work=force ie how many nurses doctors out of the 1.626 mill.

Excellent, the first culling of public sector parasites, lets hope for many (hundreds of) thousands more.

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posted earlier didn't seem to laod up for some reason.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287261/Bloated-NHS-stripped-9-000-managers-faces-250m-cuts.html

'Thousands of hospital managers face the sack this year, after figures showed the Health Service has ballooned into one of the world’s biggest employers.

Health Secretary Andrew Lansley is to announce a £250million cut in management costs.

This means around 9,000 NHS posts could be axed before the end of the financial year.

Mr Lansley said he was ‘appalled’ to have discovered that Labour continued to allow NHS management costs – particularly in primary care trusts – to keep rising even as the public finances were plunging into chaos.

Aides suspect that NHS organisations ‘fattened the pig’ ahead of the election, knowing that the axe was likely to fall afterwards, to make it appear that they had tightened belts by simply returning to previous staffing levels.

Official figures show that a record 1.626million people now work for the NHS.

Another 5,000 were hired between January and March this year in the dying days of the Labour government.

There are few employers who have a bigger workforce – only the Chinese Army, Indian Railways and the U.S. giant Wal-Mart, owner of Asda, are thought to outdo them.

Britain’s biggest private sector employer, Tesco, employs just 280,000 in this country.

Mr Lansley said: ‘We will not allow any of the fat added before the election to frustrate our determination to reverse the excessive increases in cost.

‘Every penny saved will be reinvested in NHS care, in order to meet the increasing demands on the NHS and improve the quality of the service.’

Matthew Elliott of the Taxpayers’ Alliance said the figures from the Office for National Statistics were ‘shocking’.

The NHS recruitment drive was in stark contrast to the crisis at private sector firms, with many only surviving the downturn by enforcing recruitment freezes or having mass redundancies.

‘The payroll of the NHS is clearly unsustainable and the numbers cannot keep rising at this rate,’ Mr Elliott said.

‘Many of these employees are not doctors and nurses, they are pen-pushers, managers, administrators.’

Alan Downey, head of public sector at consultants KPMG, said he was also shocked by the recruitment boom.

A decade ago, the NHS employed just 1.2million people. He said the increase was ‘irresponsible in the current climate’.

The latest official figures show the workforce of bureaucrats in the NHS is growing six times as quickly as the number of nurses.

While the number of health service managers went up 12 per cent in one year, the number of nurses increased by less than two per cent – and the number of health visitors plummeted.'

1.626 million on a shrinking tax base?6 times asmany managers hired as nurses?

would love to know a break down of the full work=force ie how many nurses doctors out of the 1.626 mill.

Oh dear, mrs pent up works in admin for the NHS. Not a manager though. Her manager is an incompetent witch so hopefully she will go! :)

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A friend of mine has a girlfriend - not ususual in itself - but she is a nurse for a consultant.

She has, so my friend tells me, 6 weeks holiday plus bank holidays and is on 30Kish per year. For this she works 8.30 till 4.30, no weekend, basically walking out of the consultant's room, ushering the patient into the room, sitting silently in the room why consultant discusses treatment with patient, occasionally getting a cup of tea for patient, and then ushering patient out before repeating.

Apparently most consultants have such nurses.

I am a tad confused by this and also feel ueasy - my own Mum had cancer and the consultants and nurses who looked after her were wonderful and the nurses were all specialists... but this lady sounds, on the surface, like she is doing a non-job and certainly not a 30K job.

I then compare it with some friends who work in ITU and who are highly skilled medics who basically work themselves silly.

I don't know how you separate one nurse from another but clearly not all nurses are the same.

Someone was telling me recently about a certain hospital which has, allegedly, a department dealing in fractures. I was told that the department is so over-staffed that you have nurses waiting for patients but that these particular group of nurses/female docs are, allegeldy, so "fierce" that no one in the Trust will do anything about reallocating or firing them.

I wonder how widespread this kind of thing is. Again, some nurses are run off their feet, others appear to do little work.

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Excellent, the first culling of public sector parasites, lets hope for many (hundreds of) thousands more.

Agreed. This is exactly the kind of thing needed to force downard pressure on house prices. The flip side is they will now be competing for jobs in the Private Sector (you presume) but I would much rather this side of the coin.

A friend of mine has a girlfriend - not ususual in itself - but she is a nurse for a consultant.

She has, so my friend tells me, 6 weeks holiday plus bank holidays and is on 30Kish per year. For this she works 8.30 till 4.30, no weekend, basically walking out of the consultant's room, ushering the patient into the room, sitting silently in the room why consultant discusses treatment with patient, occasionally getting a cup of tea for patient, and then ushering patient out before repeating.

Apparently most consultants have such nurses.

I am a tad confused by this and also feel ueasy - my own Mum had cancer and the consultants and nurses who looked after her were wonderful and the nurses were all specialists... but this lady sounds, on the surface, like she is doing a non-job and certainly not a 30K job.

I then compare it with some friends who work in ITU and who are highly skilled medics who basically work themselves silly.

I don't know how you separate one nurse from another but clearly not all nurses are the same.

Someone was telling me recently about a certain hospital which has, allegedly, a department dealing in fractures. I was told that the department is so over-staffed that you have nurses waiting for patients but that these particular group of nurses/female docs are, allegeldy, so "fierce" that no one in the Trust will do anything about reallocating or firing them.

I wonder how widespread this kind of thing is. Again, some nurses are run off their feet, others appear to do little work.

I can anecdotally second this mt. Any time I've been to the Dermo I've seen this kind of nurse who does exactly this and not much else (in the past i've had to wait several hours and no she's not doing other things in the meantime).

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The fattening the pig comment in the OP article is the the sort of cynical action you've come to expect from Labour's management bloated NHS, so it's pleasing to see they'll be culled even further to take this into account.

Edited by pl1

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Agreed. This is exactly the kind of thing needed to force downard pressure on house prices. The flip side is they will now be competing for jobs in the Private Sector (you presume) but I would much rather this side of the coin.

The other flip side is that demand is going to disappear from the economy along with these jobs. It's unsustainable debt-fuelled demand, and has to go, but it's still going to hurt private-sector businesses (both here and overseas) that currently cater for this demand.

It's also going to hurt the banking system...

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A friend of mine has a girlfriend - not ususual in itself - but she is a nurse for a consultant.

She has, so my friend tells me, 6 weeks holiday plus bank holidays and is on 30Kish per year. For this she works 8.30 till 4.30, no weekend, basically walking out of the consultant's room, ushering the patient into the room, sitting silently in the room why consultant discusses treatment with patient, occasionally getting a cup of tea for patient, and then ushering patient out before repeating.

Apparently most consultants have such nurses.

I am a tad confused by this and also feel ueasy - my own Mum had cancer and the consultants and nurses who looked after her were wonderful and the nurses were all specialists... but this lady sounds, on the surface, like she is doing a non-job and certainly not a 30K job.

I then compare it with some friends who work in ITU and who are highly skilled medics who basically work themselves silly.

I don't know how you separate one nurse from another but clearly not all nurses are the same.

Someone was telling me recently about a certain hospital which has, allegedly, a department dealing in fractures. I was told that the department is so over-staffed that you have nurses waiting for patients but that these particular group of nurses/female docs are, allegeldy, so "fierce" that no one in the Trust will do anything about reallocating or firing them.

I wonder how widespread this kind of thing is. Again, some nurses are run off their feet, others appear to do little work.

Sack these consultants.

My experience in the past has been:-

* Check in with an administrator/secretary - they seem to tick your name off

* Routine and largely pointless 'tests' i.e. bloods/check weight perhaps an Xray

* Hang around for an hour or two watching 2 or 3 nurses wheel folders around

* See consultant for 2 minutes who reads the file, asks routine questions, tells you to come back in n months

* Pass this info onto administrator/secretary

* Await new appointment date in post

* Await notification of cancelled appointment due to consultant's skiing holiday

* Await rescheduled appointment

* Await notification of cancelled appointment due to consultant leaving

* Await reschedules appointment with new consultant

* Await notification of cancelled appointment to new consultant's summer holiday

* Await reschedule of appointment with new consultant

* Start at top

* Eventually stop bothering and await death

Burn them!

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Sack these consultants.

My experience in the past has been:-

* Check in with an administrator/secretary - they seem to tick your name off

* Routine and largely pointless 'tests' i.e. bloods/check weight perhaps an Xray

* Hang around for an hour or two watching 2 or 3 nurses wheel folders around

* See consultant for 2 minutes who reads the file, asks routine questions, tells you to come back in n months

* Pass this info onto administrator/secretary

* Await new appointment date in post

* Await notification of cancelled appointment due to consultant's skiing holiday

* Await rescheduled appointment

* Await notification of cancelled appointment due to consultant leaving

* Await reschedules appointment with new consultant

* Await notification of cancelled appointment to new consultant's summer holiday

* Await reschedule of appointment with new consultant

* Start at top

* Eventually stop bothering and await death

Burn them!

At first glance this looks like a slightly humorous look at the NHS patient cycle, but when I read it, it's exactly how my experience with appointments in hospitals have been (including pointless tests, reschedule, trolley wheeling nurses). Whenever I've been to the NHS one other thing which strikes me, something that I always see the reverse of at private companies I work with. It's the relaxed ambience as soon as you step into the place. Everyone walks slowly, nobody ever seems to rush around, there never seems to be any sense of urgency, ever.

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The other flip side is that demand is going to disappear from the economy along with these jobs. It's unsustainable debt-fuelled demand, and has to go, but it's still going to hurt private-sector businesses

Go google "broken window falacy". But in essence ... non directly productive public sector workers are always a net loss to the economy compared with leaving the money in the hands of the original tax payer.

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A friend of mine has a girlfriend - not ususual in itself - but she is a nurse for a consultant.

She has, so my friend tells me, 6 weeks holiday plus bank holidays and is on 30Kish per year. For this she works 8.30 till 4.30, no weekend, basically walking out of the consultant's room, ushering the patient into the room, sitting silently in the room why consultant discusses treatment with patient, occasionally getting a cup of tea for patient, and then ushering patient out before repeating.

Apparently most consultants have such nurses.

I am a tad confused by this and also feel ueasy - my own Mum had cancer and the consultants and nurses who looked after her were wonderful and the nurses were all specialists... but this lady sounds, on the surface, like she is doing a non-job and certainly not a 30K job.

I then compare it with some friends who work in ITU and who are highly skilled medics who basically work themselves silly.

I don't know how you separate one nurse from another but clearly not all nurses are the same.

Someone was telling me recently about a certain hospital which has, allegedly, a department dealing in fractures. I was told that the department is so over-staffed that you have nurses waiting for patients but that these particular group of nurses/female docs are, allegeldy, so "fierce" that no one in the Trust will do anything about reallocating or firing them.

I wonder how widespread this kind of thing is. Again, some nurses are run off their feet, others appear to do little work.

Just to clarify TMT. Is this a tale about private or NHS consultants? Its just that such non-jobs abound in the private sector.

Followingh an op I've had over three years of outpatients visits to a consultant.

As I enter the (private) hospital I see a receptionist - whose sole function over the three years has been to remind me of the code to get out of the car park.

I move on to the second recption area, where they do nothing. I may have to wait or may be passed on to the third recpetion area staffed by nurses as you describe. One will show me to the waiting area, point out the coffee machine and continue their conversation with the two other nurses standing at there. (There are usually that many stationed at this point.)

After a while one of the nurses knocks on the consultants door and presumably asks if its OK to allow the next patient in. I will then be politely told I can enter. After between two and five minutes consultation I will leave, bidding the nurses good day.

For the three stages of reception, the coffee and the few minutes with the consultant my insurance is billed £150. And I'm told to continue coming back at the same regular intervals.

I do occasionally use the NHS when the miserly limits on the insurance have been used up. (Private health insurance only provides a limited amount of cover for your money.)

The NHS process is broadly the same. Except, there are fewer stages to the reception process. there are fewer nurses, and they are dealing with 10 to 20 times as many patients. And the consultants rooms are scruffy and small by comparison.

I see the appaling waste in the private system, but it doesn't matter to them because its not me paying, its my insurance. My insurance doesn't appear to care, they just charge their rates secure in the knowledge that most people don't recognise they are paying for the waste.

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At first glance this looks like a slightly humorous look at the NHS patient cycle, but when I read it, it's exactly how my experience with appointments in hospitals have been (including pointless tests, reschedule, trolley wheeling nurses). Whenever I've been to the NHS one other thing which strikes me, something that I always see the reverse of at private companies I work with. It's the relaxed ambience as soon as you step into the place. Everyone walks slowly, nobody ever seems to rush around, there never seems to be any sense of urgency, ever.

Yup, the line between satire and real life is pretty thin in the public sector.

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Excellent, the first culling of public sector parasites, lets hope for many (hundreds of) thousands more.

The problem is we all know it wont be management who get the sack, it will be the front line staff.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, and managers wont sack themselves.

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1.626 million on a shrinking tax base?6 times asmany managers hired as nurses?

would love to know a break down of the full work=force ie how many nurses doctors out of the 1.626 mill.

Indeed. But also recall that all the Food prep + distribution, all the cleaning, all the blood work, all the analysis, scans and gok what else has been outsourced. Ie all those jobs are no longer NHS but are private sector jobs. Wonder what the 1.6m would be if all these were included?

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A friend of mine has a girlfriend - not ususual in itself - but she is a nurse for a consultant.

She has, so my friend tells me, 6 weeks holiday plus bank holidays and is on 30Kish per year. For this she works 8.30 till 4.30, no weekend, basically walking out of the consultant's room, ushering the patient into the room, sitting silently in the room why consultant discusses treatment with patient, occasionally getting a cup of tea for patient, and then ushering patient out before repeating.

Apparently most consultants have such nurses.

I am a tad confused by this and also feel ueasy - my own Mum had cancer and the consultants and nurses who looked after her were wonderful and the nurses were all specialists... but this lady sounds, on the surface, like she is doing a non-job and certainly not a 30K job.

I then compare it with some friends who work in ITU and who are highly skilled medics who basically work themselves silly.

I don't know how you separate one nurse from another but clearly not all nurses are the same.

Someone was telling me recently about a certain hospital which has, allegedly, a department dealing in fractures. I was told that the department is so over-staffed that you have nurses waiting for patients but that these particular group of nurses/female docs are, allegeldy, so "fierce" that no one in the Trust will do anything about reallocating or firing them.

I wonder how widespread this kind of thing is. Again, some nurses are run off their feet, others appear to do little work.

[/quot i think its a slight exagaration

I think you are slightly exagarating - i would say ******** but i dont know your friend and can only speak from my personal experience as a consultant:-

Nurses do not work for 'Consultants' but work for the Trusts.

All outpatient departments have a quota of nurses and nursing auxillaries -and whilst you may think there job is to make tea/coffee for the consultant, it is not.

They perform a number of duties including ensuring the consultant has all the relevant notes/documentation required prior to the clinic starting, performing ecgs etc and assisting patients with things they need to do before and after the appointment. They also are involved in ensuring the safety of patients in the outpatient department and deal with medical emergencies- for example patients occasionally have cardiac arrests in cardiology clinics or epileptic fits in neurolgy clinics. Such emergencies are generally are best dealt with by medically trained staff rather than other patients or admin staff and therefore a minimum complement of nursing staff is always kept in these departments . The trust generally like to employ the lowest grade nursing staff or auxillary that they can get away with, so your friend is either exaggarating or on to a cushy one! Lastly, one of the the most important roles in my clinics is for the nursing auxillary to act as a chararone when i examine a patient. It is a sad fact of life nowdays that all doctors now require a chaparone at least in earshot in case of an occassional nutter that might accuse them of feeling them up during an examination. I never examine a patient without a chaparone in the department- they are often shared between many consulting rooms and i have never worked in a hospital where i have 'my own' individual nurse. I also work in private practice and the ratio of nurses:consulting rooms is actually much higher.

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i think its a slight exagaration

I think you are slightly exagarating - i would say ******** but i dont know your friend and can only speak from my personal experience as a consultant:-

Nurses do not work for 'Consultants' but work for the Trusts.

All outpatient departments have a quota of nurses and nursing auxillaries -and whilst you may think there job is to make tea/coffee for the consultant, it is not.

They perform a number of duties including ensuring the consultant has all the relevant notes/documentation required prior to the clinic starting, performing ecgs etc and assisting patients with things they need to do before and after the appointment. They also are involved in ensuring the safety of patients in the outpatient department and deal with medical emergencies- for example patients occasionally have cardiac arrests in cardiology clinics or epileptic fits in neurolgy clinics. Such emergencies are generally are best dealt with by medically trained staff rather than other patients or admin staff and therefore a minimum complement of nursing staff is always kept in these departments . The trust generally like to employ the lowest grade nursing staff or auxillary that they can get away with, so your friend is either exaggarating or on to a cushy one! Lastly, one of the the most important roles in my clinics is for the nursing auxillary to act as a chararone when i examine a patient. It is a sad fact of life nowdays that all doctors now require a chaparone at least in earshot in case of an occassional nutter that might accuse them of feeling them up during an examination. I never examine a patient without a chaparone in the department- they are often shared between many consulting rooms and i have never worked in a hospital where i have 'my own' individual nurse. I also work in private practice and the ratio of nurses:consulting rooms is actually much higher.

Firstly, this is an anecdotal story related to myself so get down off your high horse.

Secondly, I suspect the only person on the forum who read what I wrote as being that the nurse works personally for the consultant, and not the Trust itself, is you.

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At first glance this looks like a slightly humorous look at the NHS patient cycle, but when I read it, it's exactly how my experience with appointments in hospitals have been (including pointless tests, reschedule, trolley wheeling nurses). Whenever I've been to the NHS one other thing which strikes me, something that I always see the reverse of at private companies I work with. It's the relaxed ambience as soon as you step into the place. Everyone walks slowly, nobody ever seems to rush around, there never seems to be any sense of urgency, ever.

Obviously never been to any of the hospitals I've worked in.

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posted earlier didn't seem to laod up for some reason.

http://www.dailymail...-250m-cuts.html

'Thousands of hospital managers face the sack this year, after figures showed the Health Service has ballooned into one of the world's biggest employers.

Health Secretary Andrew Lansley is to announce a £250million cut in management costs.

This means around 9,000 NHS posts could be axed before the end of the financial year.

Mr Lansley said he was 'appalled' to have discovered that Labour continued to allow NHS management costs – particularly in primary care trusts – to keep rising even as the public finances were plunging into chaos.

Aides suspect that NHS organisations 'fattened the pig' ahead of the election, knowing that the axe was likely to fall afterwards, to make it appear that they had tightened belts by simply returning to previous staffing levels.

Official figures show that a record 1.626million people now work for the NHS.

Another 5,000 were hired between January and March this year in the dying days of the Labour government.

There are few employers who have a bigger workforce – only the Chinese Army, Indian Railways and the U.S. giant Wal-Mart, owner of Asda, are thought to outdo them.

Britain's biggest private sector employer, Tesco, employs just 280,000 in this country.

Mr Lansley said: 'We will not allow any of the fat added before the election to frustrate our determination to reverse the excessive increases in cost.

'Every penny saved will be reinvested in NHS care, in order to meet the increasing demands on the NHS and improve the quality of the service.'

Matthew Elliott of the Taxpayers' Alliance said the figures from the Office for National Statistics were 'shocking'.

The NHS recruitment drive was in stark contrast to the crisis at private sector firms, with many only surviving the downturn by enforcing recruitment freezes or having mass redundancies.

'The payroll of the NHS is clearly unsustainable and the numbers cannot keep rising at this rate,' Mr Elliott said.

'Many of these employees are not doctors and nurses, they are pen-pushers, managers, administrators.'

Alan Downey, head of public sector at consultants KPMG, said he was also shocked by the recruitment boom.

A decade ago, the NHS employed just 1.2million people. He said the increase was 'irresponsible in the current climate'.

The latest official figures show the workforce of bureaucrats in the NHS is growing six times as quickly as the number of nurses.

While the number of health service managers went up 12 per cent in one year, the number of nurses increased by less than two per cent – and the number of health visitors plummeted.'

1.626 million on a shrinking tax base?6 times asmany managers hired as nurses?

would love to know a break down of the full work=force ie how many nurses doctors out of the 1.626 mill.

Excellent work at indignation, but sorely misplaced.

1) Never read the Daily Mail. Ever.

2) The NHS has been the 3rd/4th largest employer for decades - it's not news.

3) Hiring 5 thousand on a base of 1.626 million is virtually nothing.

4) It doesn't say the 5000 were managers.

5) Compared to other, 'efficient', private sector companies, the NHS is undermanaged by 75%, and hence examples of misallocated resources exists, as mentioned by other posts, abound.

6) In one year managers went up 12 per cent, nurses two per cent. Clearly there were more nurses beforehand, so more than likely that was actually more nurses hired than managers.

Why does everyone seem to think the NHS could be run by 1.2 million nurses and no-one coordinating the thing?!

A non-story of ill informed populist hype. Or, as it likes to be known, the Daily Mail.

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Excellent work at indignation, but sorely misplaced.

1) Never read the Daily Mail. Ever.

2) The NHS has been the 3rd/4th largest employer for decades - it's not news.

3) Hiring 5 thousand on a base of 1.626 million is virtually nothing.

4) It doesn't say the 5000 were managers.

5) Compared to other, 'efficient', private sector companies, the NHS is undermanaged by 75%, and hence examples of misallocated resources exists, as mentioned by other posts, abound.

6) In one year managers went up 12 per cent, nurses two per cent. Clearly there were more nurses beforehand, so more than likely that was actually more nurses hired than managers.

Why does everyone seem to think the NHS could be run by 1.2 million nurses and no-one coordinating the thing?!

A non-story of ill informed populist hype. Or, as it likes to be known, the Daily Mail.

No more of these legitimate points onone of the traditional public sector bashing thread please.:rolleyes:

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Just to clarify TMT. Is this a tale about private or NHS consultants? Its just that such non-jobs abound in the private sector.

Followingh an op I've had over three years of outpatients visits to a consultant.

As I enter the (private) hospital I see a receptionist - whose sole function over the three years has been to remind me of the code to get out of the car park.

I move on to the second recption area, where they do nothing. I may have to wait or may be passed on to the third recpetion area staffed by nurses as you describe. One will show me to the waiting area, point out the coffee machine and continue their conversation with the two other nurses standing at there. (There are usually that many stationed at this point.)

After a while one of the nurses knocks on the consultants door and presumably asks if its OK to allow the next patient in. I will then be politely told I can enter. After between two and five minutes consultation I will leave, bidding the nurses good day.

For the three stages of reception, the coffee and the few minutes with the consultant my insurance is billed £150. And I'm told to continue coming back at the same regular intervals.

I do occasionally use the NHS when the miserly limits on the insurance have been used up. (Private health insurance only provides a limited amount of cover for your money.)

The NHS process is broadly the same. Except, there are fewer stages to the reception process. there are fewer nurses, and they are dealing with 10 to 20 times as many patients. And the consultants rooms are scruffy and small by comparison.

I see the appaling waste in the private system, but it doesn't matter to them because its not me paying, its my insurance. My insurance doesn't appear to care, they just charge their rates secure in the knowledge that most people don't recognise they are paying for the waste.

Thought I had a problem so couple of months ago I phoned my GP and asked him to set up an appointment with consultant. He knows me well enough so agreed and I confirmed I would pay privately. (I work overseas).

On arrival in UK go into Health Centre to confirm my appointment and I'm sitting waiting when in come a Chinese couple with a crying baby. They can speak no English but the receptionist asks if they ,or the baby ,are registered and the pair manage to string enough words together to say, "baby born in UK", whereupon the receptionist takes them at their word (!!) and confirms that the baby must be a British citizen. (Now you go to Shanghai,Bankok, or Jakarta and see if you can get free medical attention).

For me, having paid into the NHS for over 20 years , I pay, in cash, GBP700 for consultant's time (less than an hour in total)and GBP800 for 2 hrs of private hospital time. GB is a joke , but unfortunetely we are the clowns !!

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Mrs Yogi works as a nurse in the NHS and earns around £25k pa. She works far harder than I do as a self-employed cabinetmaker for similar reward. I hear a lot about the glories and the shortcomings of the NHS on a daily basis!

There are too many managers and too many of them are completely incompetent, having come into the NHS from private employers such as supermarket chains. Presumably because they were incompetent!

The biggest scandal though, is in staffing budgets.

Each ward or department has a budget for nursing staff. If staffing costs come in under budget then the manager is given a bonus. In the event that a nurse has to be hired through an agency to cover a particular shift however, the cost comes out of a contingency budget, the size of which appears to be elastic. An agency nurse - usually barely qualified or conversant in the English language - costs twice as much as a full-time nurse.

Result - chronic under-staffing with full-time qualified nurses and reliance on more expensive and less competent agency nurses.

The 'manager' meanwhile, receives kudos and a bonus for coming in 'under budget'!

The full-time nursing staff have to work twice as as hard covering for their 'here today. gone tomorrow' colleagues.

I imagine that this is true on every hospital ward in the country.

Edited by Mr Yogi

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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