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The Road To Serfdom - Tops Bestsellers List On Amazon

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Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph"

–Haile Selassie

methinks just typing anonymously on internet forums isnt enough

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apparently it was mentioned on US tv last night... (you know he propaganda/mass media you mention in your OP)

Edited by AteMoose

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Gordon Gekko: The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's ********. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you.

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

[Neo's eyes suddenly wander towards a woman in a red dress]

Morpheus: Were you listening to me, Neo? Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?

Neo: I was...

Morpheus: [gestures with one hand] Look again.

But there's a reason. There's a reason. There's a reason for this, there's a reason education SUCKS, and it's the same reason it will never ever ever be fixed. It's never going to get any better, don't look for it, be happy with what you've got...BECAUSE THE OWNERS OF THIS COUNTRY DON'T WANT THAT. I'm talking about the real owners now...the REAAL owners. The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions."..

"Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice . . . you don’t. You have no choice. You have OWNERS. They OWN *you*. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying . . . lobbying, to get what they want . . . Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want . . . they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that . . . that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting ***** by a system that threw them overboard 30 *****' years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers . . . Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly ***** jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your *****' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it . . . they’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this *****' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people . . . white collar, blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means . . . continue to elect these rich ***** who don’t give a ***** about you. They don’t give a ***** about you . . . they don’t give a ***** about you. They don’t care about you at all . . . at all . . . at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their ***** everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream, 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it . . .”

You have meddled with the primary forces of nature, Mr Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear?

You think you merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tide and gravity. It is ecological balance.

You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no Third Worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems. One vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-varied, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rands, rubles, pounds and shekels.

It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic, and sub-atomic and galactic structure of things today.

And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature. And you will atone.

Am I getting through to you, Mr Beale?

You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today.

What do you think the Russians talk about in their Councils of State? Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, mini-max solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do.

We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bye-laws of of business. The world is a business, Mr Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime.

And our children will live, Mr Beale, to see that ... perfect ... world in which there is no war nor famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company for whom all men will work to serve a common profit. In which all men will hold a share of stock.

All necessities provided. All anxieties tranquilized. All boredom amused.

Edited by Money Spinner

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Apparently Glenn Beck on Fox has been promoting the Road to Serfdom.

The same Glenn Beck whose book, the Overton Window, is also in the top 5 on Amazon.

This is also the same Glenn Beck who has championed the '9/12 Foundation'. The pitch being "remember the way you felt the day after 9/11 - on 9/12 - we want you to feel that way every day". I think the idea is that everyone felt patriotic, they pulled together and put aside petty differences, rather than the reality in which people were utterly, utterly terrified, and felt more willing to pass greater and greater control to the government.

Edited by WageslaveX14

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Apparently Glenn Beck on Fox has been promoting the Road to Serfdom.

The same Glenn Beck whose book, the Overton Window, is also in the top 5 on Amazon.

This is also the same Glenn Beck who has championed the '9/12 Foundation'. The pitch being "remember the way you felt the day after 9/11 - on 9/12 - we want you to feel that way every day". I think the idea is that everyone felt patriotic, they pulled together and put aside petty differences, rather than the reality in which people were utterly, utterly terrified, and felt more willing to pass greater and greater control to the government.

patriotism the last refuge of the scoundrel

where is my england flag

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In a world where a tiny monority own most of the wealth do you:

-.raise the living standards of the vast majoprity by extending that wealth by means of higher wages, better pensions and social provision.

or

- encourage the masses to blames inequality on each other in a race to the bottom that equalises their living standards downwards

Looks as though the brainwashing is working..

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patriotism the last refuge of the scoundrel

where is my england flag

  • Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
    • April 7, 1775, p. 253
    • Boswell's full mention of this statement reads:

Patriotism having become one of our topicks, Johnson suddenly uttered, in a strong determined tone, an apophthegm, at which many will start: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.

So who's the patriot and who's the scoundrel seeking refuge in the cloak of false patriotism?

(ex wiki)

Edited by Red Karma

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Gordon Gekko: The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's ********. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you.

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

[Neo's eyes suddenly wander towards a woman in a red dress]

Morpheus: Were you listening to me, Neo? Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?

Neo: I was...

Morpheus: [gestures with one hand] Look again.

But there's a reason. There's a reason. There's a reason for this, there's a reason education SUCKS, and it's the same reason it will never ever ever be fixed. It's never going to get any better, don't look for it, be happy with what you've got...BECAUSE THE OWNERS OF THIS COUNTRY DON'T WANT THAT. I'm talking about the real owners now...the REAAL owners. The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions."..

"Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice . . . you don’t. You have no choice. You have OWNERS. They OWN *you*. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying . . . lobbying, to get what they want . . . Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want . . . they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that . . . that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting ***** by a system that threw them overboard 30 *****' years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers . . . Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly ***** jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your *****' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it . . . they’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this *****' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people . . . white collar, blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means . . . continue to elect these rich ***** who don’t give a ***** about you. They don’t give a ***** about you . . . they don’t give a ***** about you. They don’t care about you at all . . . at all . . . at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their ***** everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream, 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it . . .”

You have meddled with the primary forces of nature, Mr Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear?

You think you merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tide and gravity. It is ecological balance.

You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no Third Worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems. One vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-varied, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rands, rubles, pounds and shekels.

It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic, and sub-atomic and galactic structure of things today.

And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature. And you will atone.

Am I getting through to you, Mr Beale?

You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today.

What do you think the Russians talk about in their Councils of State? Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, mini-max solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do.

We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bye-laws of of business. The world is a business, Mr Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime.

And our children will live, Mr Beale, to see that ... perfect ... world in which there is no war nor famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company for whom all men will work to serve a common profit. In which all men will hold a share of stock.

All necessities provided. All anxieties tranquilized. All boredom amused.

It’s called the American Dream, 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it . . .”

Sweet. I love George Carlin

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In a world where a tiny monority own most of the wealth do you:

-.raise the living standards of the vast majoprity by extending that wealth by means of higher wages, better pensions and social provision.

or

- encourage the masses to blames inequality on each other in a race to the bottom that equalises their living standards downwards

Looks as though the brainwashing is working..

The awesomeness of this post has blown me away.

It's perfect. If you are right, you are right and if you are wrong you are right.

Genius.

I take my headwear off to you.

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I was thinking yesterday ...

.... I remember when I was taught about the medieval church in Europe and I remember the disapproval my lecturers and peers expressed when we discussed the tithes the church imposed on the populace of countries, particularly the tithes on the poor, whilst the medieval church lavished in luxury.

And it suddenly struck me: how will future generations perceive the working people of today paying 20 percent of their income to the state? Not only that, but the further taxes on consumption, other forms of income, on capital, savings etc. I wondered whether, in 500 years, they might perceive our state taxation system in a similarly distasteful way to the way we see the system of church tithes in the medieval period -- after all, the church was the state and society in the medieval period.

Because when you think about it, you can argue that those medieval church tithes "paid for" monastic hospitals for the poor, for rudimentary education, for the "well-being of people's souls", for the structure of medieval society "to exist without anarchy", to support the agrarian and artisan economies created by the needs of those monasteries, for the consumption of priests, fathers and abbots (we could call them factors in the multiplier effect) -- in short, most of the arguments that are given today for the support of the modern welfare state are applicable to the medieval church.

Which then made me wonder why the medieval tithe system is seen to be so distasteful today. And I reckon it is probably because so much of the money gathered went into making the church extraordinarily powerful and its members wealthy beyond the wildest dreams of the ordinary people.

And then I thought, well, what is so different today? Our MPs (our modern version of cardinals) earn more than 90 percent of all British income earners, our ministers (our modern archbishops) are in the top 1 percent of all earners in the country, along with the heads of many of our local authorities. They are sponsored to buy and run more than one home at a time when so many cannot even afford one place to live (and not only that, but we buy their furniture and pay their bills as well). Our taxes support a head of state (our modern version of the pope) who is one of the wealthiest women in the country.

I suspect people in 500 years may look back at this era and think we were oppressed imbeciles, shackled by a system that sucked the lifeblood out of us for the benefit of the chosen few.

Edited by dissident junk

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I suspect people in 500 years may look back at this era and think we were oppressed imbeciles, shackled by a system that sucked the lifeblood out of us for the benefit of the chosen few.

yep

they may also think it was a bit daft to chase after bits of paper and ink

edit change the 500 to 5 - hopefully

Edited by lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)

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I was thinking yesterday ...

.... I remember when I was taught about the medieval church in Europe and I remember the disapproval my lecturers and peers expressed when we discussed the tithes the church imposed on the populace of countries, particularly the tithes on the poor, whilst the medieval church lavished in luxury.

And it suddenly struck me: how will future generations perceive the working people of today paying 20 percent of their income to the state? Not only that, but the further taxes on consumption, other forms of income, on capital, savings etc. I wondered whether, in 500 years, they might perceive our state taxation system in a similarly distasteful way to the way we see the system of church tithes in the medieval period -- after all, the church was the state and society in the medieval period.

Because when you think about it, you can argue that those medieval church tithes "paid for" monastic hospitals for the poor, for rudimentary education, for the "well-being of people's souls", for the structure of medieval society "to exist without anarchy", to support the agrarian and artisan economies created by the needs of those monasteries, for the consumption of priests, fathers and abbots (we could call them factors in the multiplier effect) -- in short, most of the arguments that are given today for the support of the modern welfare state are applicable to the medieval church.

Which then made me wonder why the medieval tithe system is seen to be so distasteful today. And I reckon it is probably because so much of the money gathered went into making the church extraordinarily powerful and its members wealthy beyond the wildest dreams of the ordinary people.

And then I thought, well, what is so different today? Our MPs (our modern version of cardinals) earn more than 90 percent of all British income earners, our ministers (our modern archbishops) are in the top 1 percent of all earners in the country, along with the heads of many of our local authorities. They are sponsored to buy and run more than one home at a time when so many cannot even afford one place to live (and not only that, but we buy their furniture and pay their bills as well). Our taxes support a head of state (our modern version of the pope) who is one of the wealthiest women in the country.

I suspect people in 500 years may look back at this era and think we were oppressed imbeciles, shackled by a system that sucked the lifeblood out of us for the benefit of the chosen few.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

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There is a vast difference between wealth that is consumed and capital wealth. Wealth that is consume is by large much more equal, most production is for the middle classes. Its the capital ownership which is massively concentrated to the elite few. For some reason people become obsessed with capital ownership.

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Guest sillybear2

Looks like Glenn Beck has mentioned it :-

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594265,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594203,00.html

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/06/14/friedrich-von-hayek-the-road-to-serfdom/

Hayek is obviously the new Ayn Rand this season.

FoxNews warning about the power of propaganda :lol:

Edited by sillybear2

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Guest sillybear2

Hayek could write.

Yeah, Ayn Rand and the words "Readers' Digest Condensed Version" don't exactly mix.

objectivism.gif

Edited by sillybear2

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you can argue that those medieval church tithes "paid for" monastic hospitals for the poor, for rudimentary education, for the "well-being of people's souls", for the structure of medieval society "to exist without anarchy" ...

I suspect people in 500 years may look back at this era and think we were oppressed imbeciles, shackled by a system that sucked the lifeblood out of us for the benefit of the chosen few.

Could be another case of "be careful what you wish for".

After Bluff King Hal threw a strop 'cos the pope was obstructing his shagnasty ambitions, and "nationalised" the lot, we (out here, off France) ended up with Sturdy Beggars, The Poor Law (regarded with horror by continental contemporaries, and subsequently repeatedly modified down the centuries when its exigencies seemed likely to provoke outright social war), "absorption" of adjacent polities, colonisation and imperialism, mass deportations of the indigent, a vicious civil war and so on, possibly as a result of the social tensions resulting from releasing all those harmless peasants from their dependence on Mother Church (who'd caringly taken the food out of their childrens' mouths in order to be able to toss back a pitiful ration when times was 'ard, of course).

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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