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Nightmare Vision For Europe As Eu Chief Warns 'democracy Could Disappear' In Greece, Spain And Portugal

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1286480/EU-leaders-thrash-rescue-package-Spain-faces-bankruptcy.html

* EU begin emergency billion-pound bailout of Spain

* Countries in debt may fall to dictators, EC chief warns

* 'Apocalyptic' vision as some states run out of money

Democracy could ‘collapse’ in Greece, Spain and Portugal unless urgent action is taken to tackle the debt crisis, the head of the European Commission has warned.

In an extraordinary briefing to trade union chiefs last week, Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso set out an ‘apocalyptic’ vision in which crisis-hit countries in southern Europe could fall victim to military coups or popular uprisings as interest rates soar and public services collapse because their governments run out of money.

The stark warning came as it emerged that EU chiefs have begun work on an emergency bailout package for Spain which is likely to run into hundreds of billions of pounds.

A £650 billion bailout for Greece has already been agreed.

John Monks, former head of the TUC, said he had been ‘shocked’ by the severity of the warning from Mr Barroso, who is a former prime minister of Portugal.

Mr Monks, now head of the European TUC, said: ‘I had a discussion with Barroso last Friday about what can be done for Greece, Spain, Portugal and the rest and his message was blunt: “Look, if they do not carry out these austerity packages, these countries could virtually disappear in the way that we know them as democracies. They've got no choice, this is it.”

‘He's very, very worried. He shocked us with an apocalyptic vision of democracies in Europe collapsing because of the state of indebtedness.’

Greece, Spain and Portugal, which only became democracies in the 1970s, are all facing dire problems with their public finances. All three countries have a history of military coups.

Greece has been rocked by a series of national strikes and riots this year following the announcement of swingeing cuts to public spending designed to curb Britain’s deficit.

Spain and Portugal have also announced austerity measures in recent weeks amid growing signs that the international markets are increasingly worried they could default on their debts.

Other EU countries seeing public protests over austerity plans include Hungary, Italy and Romania, where public sector pay is to be slashed by 25 per cent.

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, who visited Madrid last week, said the situation in Spain should serve as a warning to Britain of the perils of failing to tackle the deficit quickly.

He said the collapse of confidence in Spain had seen interest rates soar, adding: ‘As the nation with the highest deficit in Europe in 2010, we simply cannot afford to let that happen to us too.’

Mr Barroso’s warning lays bare the concern at the highest level in Brussels that the economic crisis could lead to the collapse of not only the beleaguered euro, but the EU itself, along with a string of fragile democracies.

But it risks infuriating governments in southern Europe which are already struggling to contain public anger as they drive through tax rises and spending cuts in a bid to avoid disaster.

I know it's the Wail, but it's clearly contained.

Plus it's a headline in the mainstream press.

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Democracy could ‘collapse’ in Greece, Spain and Portugal unless urgent action is taken to tackle the debt crisis, the head of the European Commission has warned.

Barosso lecturing on democracy?

What a pr1ck.

No wonder he fears a 'popular uprising' in Greece.

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Democracy could ‘collapse’ in Greece, Spain and Portugal

What rubbish. Speaking for Portugal, democracy has hardly arrived, so how can it 'collapse'?

Some of the public sector still behave as though the dictator is immortal. The structures are still in place.

Reverting to 'normal service' could be the fastest rule implementation the country has made since joining the EU.

I chose Portugal as I considered Spanish bureaucracy was nastier still.

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Democracy has disappeared in Europe already.

Ask the French and the Dutch and the Irish and ask us. Where was our vote on Lisbon.

Perhaps we could get our democracy back from the EU where it is currently hiding from us.

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Perhaps we could get our democracy back from the EU where it is currently hiding from us.

Surely Germany will now pull out of the Euro. They were contemplating it during the Greek crisis, so now the Spainish are asking for billions?

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What they are really worried about is the consequences of these countries defaulting. But shouldn't we just accept that we are bust and just default now. It's all over we surely know it is.

Capitalism has failed time to try something else

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I know it's the Wail, but it's clearly contained.

Plus it's a headline in the mainstream press.

...looks like robbing Peter to pay Paul on the grandest scale ever ....but who is the lender of last resort ....anyone...?.... :rolleyes:

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What they are really worried about is the consequences of these countries defaulting. But shouldn't we just accept that we are bust and just default now. It's all over we surely know it is.

Capitalism has failed time to try something else

Capitalism has not failed. The problem we have is that instead of having a capitalist response to a crisis i.e letting the banks go bust, states go bust, we have had a socialist response and the capitalists are saying "Yeah give me more bailout money, Kerching 10 mill bonus." In a true capitalist response these guys would be on the dole.

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Capitalism has failed time to try something else

Posted 9.08

Capitalism has not failed. The problem we have is that instead of having a capitalist response to a crisis i.e letting the banks go bust, states go bust, we have had a socialist response and the capitalists are saying "Yeah give me more bailout money, Kerching 10 mill bonus." In a true capitalist response these guys would be on the dole.

Posted 9.14

Six minutes. Do the word's 'capitalism has failed' set off an alarm somewhere.?

What failed is the fantasy that left to it's own devices capitalism would exhibit a sustainable equilibrium without the need for external regulation. The truth is that capitalism is a symbiotic structure that can only function in tandem with the state. Left to their own devices the capitalists destroyed themselves in the space of 20 years.

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Imo democracy is not the natural state of human affairs. Its sort of a good times ideology. In good times the ignorant masses vote themselves whatever they want and vote out the things they don't want, like that nasty polluting industry.

Eventually it collapses and a strong man has to come in to fix things. Right now our democracy is more rule by special interests each extracting rents from the society as a whole. But only a dictator can think about the national interest.

An interesting test will be if it is even possible for democracies to carry out austerity. Like our Tories are talking big about all the cuts that are needed, but will they actually be able to deliver? They have already ring fenced almost all the big spending areas.

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Democracy has disappeared in Europe already.

Ask the French and the Dutch and the Irish and ask us. Where was our vote on Lisbon.

too right.

so who is getting rid of the democracy??

...not the french,dutch,irish and brits.

EU commission said we want to federalise and we told you to stick it where the sun don't shine.

don't like it??...tough...that's democracy,deal with it.

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Posted 9.08

Posted 9.14

Six minutes. Do the word's 'capitalism has failed' set off an alarm somewhere.?

What failed is the fantasy that left to it's own devices capitalism would exhibit a sustainable equilibrium without the need for external regulation. The truth is that capitalism is a symbiotic structure that can only function in tandem with the state. Left to their own devices the capitalists destroyed themselves in the space of 20 years.

..oh and state-regulated communism/socialism was a roaring success??.We've got the best part of 100 years of history says otherwise.

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<br />What rubbish. Speaking for Portugal, democracy has hardly arrived, so how can it 'collapse'? <br />Some of the public sector still behave as though the dictator is immortal. The structures are still in place.<br />Reverting to 'normal service' could be the fastest rule implementation the country has made since joining the EU.<br />I chose Portugal as I considered Spanish bureaucracy was nastier still.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

People who have spoken out against the con on the population (that the Spanish Civil war was) - said it was Roman Catholic priests/Jesuits/organised religion who started it.

It was a power/land/cash grab by the church (+ regime change/civil genocide of opponents)

The church/organised religion did it in France (and got kicked out for it) before they squirmed back-in to take over vast areas of the French people's lands again!

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Posted 9.08

Posted 9.14

Six minutes. Do the word's 'capitalism has failed' set off an alarm somewhere.?

What failed is the fantasy that left to it's own devices capitalism would exhibit a sustainable equilibrium without the need for external regulation. The truth is that capitalism is a symbiotic structure that can only function in tandem with the state. Left to their own devices the capitalists destroyed themselves in the space of 20 years.

Free market capitalist systems are not defined by the level of regulation. The are defined by the ease of which companies can start up and trade, and (if necessary) go bust.

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<br /><br /><br />

People who have spoken out against the con on the population (that the Spanish Civil war was) - said it was Roman Catholic priests/Jesuits/organised religion who started it.

It was a power/land/cash grab by the church (+ regime change/civil genocide of opponents)

The church/organised religion did it in France (and got kicked out for it) before they squirmed back-in to take over vast areas of the French people's lands again!

I imagine 99% of wars (civil or otherwise) are land grabs related to religion in some way. It's strange that the Spanish civil war seemed to unite various religions in various ways in Franco's quest to kick out communism.

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..oh and state-regulated communism/socialism was a roaring success??.We've got the best part of 100 years of history says otherwise.

norway have done very nicely. russia did very badly, and arguably france is doing much better than the USA.

There are a range of results which generally come down in favour of a mixed economy that doesn't lean too far to ideological extremes.

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Guest The Relaxation Suite

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1286480/EU-leaders-thrash-rescue-package-Spain-faces-bankruptcy.html

I know it's the Wail, but it's clearly contained.

Plus it's a headline in the mainstream press.

I am amused by the people who dismiss this kind of thing as "unthinkable". Oh, if they had just one history book in their houses!

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If they really want to "tackle this debt crisis" then I suggest they stop including debt in the list of potential solutions.

Edited by Um_Bongo

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Capitalism has failed time to try something else

Rubbish. It is not Captalism that failed. It is Socialism that borowed all that money and can't/won't pay it back. Socialism in Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy has failed. The Socialism of UK and Irland is being sorted out, apprently. That of US continues...

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Guest sillybear2

What they are really worried about is the consequences of these countries defaulting. But shouldn't we just accept that we are bust and just default now. It's all over we surely know it is.

Capitalism has failed time to try something else

You can't have capitalism when interest rates are pegged at some ridiculously low level and you get to live off some other country's good credit rating. Greece used to have capitalism, before they joined the Euro the markets would only lend to their government at 16% interest rates, call it a natural equilibrium to keep its weak over-spending institutions and crooked politicians in check, and the Eurocrats are doing everything possible to delay its re-emergence.

The best thing for Greece would be a default and an IMF lead debt restructuring involving 66% haircuts, like Uruguay, but Greece's creditors don't want to go down that path for their own selfish reasons :-

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/business/global/14eurobank.html

Edited by sillybear2

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Guest sillybear2

I imagine 99% of wars (civil or otherwise) are land grabs related to religion in some way. It's strange that the Spanish civil war seemed to unite various religions in various ways in Franco's quest to kick out communism.

Neoliberalism and globalisation is a religion, its adherents and special interests in government will always defend it regardless of its negative impacts on general wellbeing.

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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