Jobs In These Uncertain Times?

[The Masked Tulip]

With the Public Sector about to begin large cuts across the country, and many private sector firms probably still to get rid of staff, what are HPCers thoughts on job rellocation in the current climate?

You know what usually happens - well, in an economically stable time - when someone is offered a job in a different town/city to where they are currently living. You decide whether you wish to live there, whether the job is right for you, you take the job if you it fits you needs and then, in time, you buy a house.

In the past, many would move to the new job and, almost simultaneously, buy a house as soon as they start the new job. In fact, they often would look for the house before starting the job. Heck, some companies used to offer relocation packages - I bet they have gone by the board nowadays.

Similarly, contractors would sign a 6 or 12 month lease on a rented flat, especially in London, if starting a new contract and they lived elsewhere.

But...

What I am getting at now is that with the economy so uncertain I wonder whether people will be prepared to take such risks now or whether they will batten down the hatches and stay where they are?

I doubt many in permanent jobs would be looking for another permanent job outside their current locale because, for all the reasons mentioned above, there would surely be risk in taking such a new job, upping sticks, moving only to discover that the new job lasts no more than a few months?

Similarly, how many contractors are currently prepared and able to sign up to rental leases when their contracts may be cancelled at short notice?

I suppose this is a double whammy for jobs and for houses... and also for rented accomodation... when the economy is good people take risks but now?

[HPC001]

I downgraded my accomodation recently and I expect the situation to get worse before it gets better.

Absolutely **** all except the odd warehouse contract around here...anything else is swamped with hundreds of applicants. Hell, even the warehouse work is, except there's less bull**** to get through before reaching the actual job.

[athom]

I suppose this is a double whammy for jobs and for houses... and also for rented accomodation... when the economy is good people take risks but now?

I think most people who are still working think the economy is ok now, don't see any danger on the horizon and so would probably act as usual. The first dip was a big non-event for people who didn't lose their jobs, house prices are booming again (sic) so even those who went into NE are feeling ok, banks are lending to people with jobs, people with jobs are shopping. I think we're into a cried wolf stage now where people really aren't expecting another dip or if so for it to be any worse than the last dip.

[aa3]

For an employee with a lot of time put in at one company someone imo would have to be near a complete idiot to change jobs. Or it would have to be very bad at their current job.. or a huge promotion at the new place which they just can't pass up.

I'm sure a lot of people will still do it, but I bet many will find they are let go by the new company if it has to make cutbacks.

One way this is showing up is companies that want to downsize would often just not fill positions when people left. And there was a huge churn in some companies like 20% of their staff a year! But one reason they had to resort to outright firing was people were not leaving.

Of course when no one is hiring it is hard to leave in the first place.

[miko]

I think most people who are still working think the economy is ok now, don't see any danger on the horizon and so would probably act as usual. The first dip was a big non-event for people who didn't lose their jobs, house prices are booming again (sic) so even those who went into NE are feeling ok, banks are lending to people with jobs, people with jobs are shopping. I think we're into a cried wolf stage now where people really aren't expecting another dip or if so for it to be any worse than the last dip.

Are you a decedent of Mary Antoinette ?

[athom]

Are you a decedent of Mary Antoinette ?

and you wonder why i don't always reply to you? No idea what you are talking about

[The Masked Tulip]

I suppose there is also the serious worry of some companies/public sector bodies taking on people in order to improve headcount before coming cuts - .i.e. head of dept knows cuts are coming so adds to headcount so when he/she has to cut the last in are first out and the dept more or less ends up with same number.

[Brave New World]

Have been at the same company, marketing agency, for 6 years now – could have left 12 months ago to work for a Quango – Yorkshire forward! Then had an offer to work in marketing and sales but at a recycling company a few months back. Both made me think and were better cash but bottled both due to the fear of being last in first out etc

A couple of years ago i would have jumped at both but consistency of employment is worth far more.

Ok not being part of the zombie age of entitlement bleeders in the public sector i will not be getting a month for very year served but hay working somewhere for 6 years and is certainly better then having worked somewhere for a year or so – especially when the shit gets real next year in the wider economy.

[miko]

and you wonder why i don't always reply to you? No idea what you are talking about

By what you said in the post i answered you live in the same mind set as her. That's what im talking about . From the governement , the papers, the public , the people on here anyone that has an ounce of common sense , every body is sure that we are in for some lean times . Yet you post in the mind set that things could not be better .

[The Masked Tulip]

Have been at the same company, marketing agency, for 6 years now – could have left 12 months ago to work for a Quango – Yorkshire forward! Then had an offer to work in marketing and sales but at a recycling company a few months back. Both made me think and were better cash but bottled both due to the fear of being last in first out etc

A couple of years ago i would have jumped at both but consistency of employment is worth far more.

Ok not being part of the zombie age of entitlement bleeders in the public sector i will not be getting a month for very year served but hay working somewhere for 6 years and is certainly better then having worked somewhere for a year or so – especially when the shit gets real next year in the wider economy.

I think I remember you posting about that QUANGO job at the time.

TMT in "See, I care for my fellow HPCers" mode.

[athom]

By what you said in the post i answered you live in the same mind set as her. That's what im talking about . From the governement , the papers, the public , the people on here anyone that has an ounce of common sense , every body is sure that we are in for some lean times . Yet you post in the mind set that things could not be better .

I was talking about other people. It doesn't matter what the papers or government warn of lean times, no one seems to be afraid of it at the moment. I meet a lot of people through work and nobody seems the least worried about things. People with jobs that is. People with jobs and houses sell to other people with jobs and houses, la la land persists without the rest of us. Somehow the market is surviving without first time buyers and of course those made redundant aren't relevant to the market. Any repo houses don't get their numbers onto the LR figures.

Edited June 15, 2010 by athom

[ccc]

This is a story I have been told....

There is an IT department in a very large British Bank that may have been in trouble a while back, well probably still is !! Anyway up until now all the chat has been about going contracting. Everyone was desperate for VR. Many did jump ship but a lot just stuck it out. Recently the vast majority of them have been offered VR. Now this VR is on very favourable terms. Most would be leaving with 20k +.

Quite surprisingly they are having trouble getting the number of VR volunteers they are wanting to reach their defined cuts. When push came to shove I reckon most just start to realise how cushty a permanent job in some of these places can be. The fear is there allright, it is just hidden a little below the gung ho surface.

[The Masked Tulip]

This is a story I have been told....

There is an IT department in a very large British Bank that may have been in trouble a while back, well probably still is !! Anyway up until now all the chat has been about going contracting. Everyone was desperate for VR. Many did jump ship but a lot just stuck it out. Recently the vast majority of them have been offered VR. Now this VR is on very favourable terms. Most would be leaving with 20k +.

Quite surprisingly they are having trouble getting the number of VR volunteers they are wanting to reach their defined cuts. When push came to shove I reckon most just start to realise how cushty a permanent job in some of these places can be. The fear is there allright, it is just hidden a little below the gung ho surface.

The bank clue doesn't really narrow it down though does it.

[david m]

I was talking about other people. It doesn't matter what the papers or government warn of lean times, no one seems to be afraid of it at the moment. I meet a lot of people through work and nobody seems the least worried about things. People with jobs that is. People with jobs and houses sell to other people with jobs and houses, la la land persists without the rest of us. Somehow the market is surviving without first time buyers and of course those made redundant aren't relevant to the market. Any repo houses don't get their numbers onto the LR figures.

I think it really depends where you are. My family are from Bolton/Manchester area. My five cousins, all of whom live in the area, all are already suffering from the downturn and don't want any govt cutbacks. One has lost her job in retail management, two are on short-time in construction, the fourth who runs his own business is finds it difficult to get new contracts, and the last, who works in the public sector, is worried about redundancy. None have much in the way of savings, pensions etc etc to fall back on. The one who runs his own business earns perhaps £50k, the others more like £15k-£25k/year.

However, here in London and Surrey I see a completely different picture. Most of my friends/colleagues view fiscal austerity and the risk of recession as necessary. However, none are particularly worried about the risk of redundancy. They all believe thay have enough savings to get through it and think they can find new jobs relatively easily. Two close friends (a company lawyer and petroleum economist) were both headhunted within the last two months and got £30k and £40k pay rises, respectively. The only one that seems to be suffering is a Charted Surveyor (boo hiss) who was asked to take a 10% pay cut!

Edited June 15, 2010 by david m

[ccc]

The bank clue doesn't really narrow it down though does it.

True !!

Well anyway I am sure you could have a wild guess.

[miko]

I was talking about other people. It doesn't matter what the papers or government warn of lean times, no one seems to be afraid of it at the moment. I meet a lot of people through work and nobody seems the least worried about things. People with jobs that is. People with jobs and houses sell to other people with jobs and houses, la la land persists without the rest of us. Somehow the market is surviving without first time buyers and of course those made redundant aren't relevant to the market. Any repo houses don't get their numbers onto the LR figures.

That's the whole point people with jobs sell houses to people with jobs.

It's when the people without jobs have to sell their houses and carn't that is when things get nasty ( do you remember 88/94 ) .

What is la la land ?

The market can not and will not survive without first time buyers . At present there are still some first time buyers , the reduced number is reflected in the reduced sales across the market. Prices have not dropped that much in good areas , however transaction levels are very low.

Those made redundant are not relevant to the market. ? They are part of the market i.e. they will not be able to buy and if they have a house with a big debt will be forced to sell. Forced sales are a massive mover of the market.

You say any reop houses don't get their numbers onto the LR figures . Two things on that :-

1. Just because their numbers are not on LR figures does that mean they were not reopd ?

2. Maybe thats why LR figures seem to be holding up so well , the figures are not a proper accurate measure of the market.What would the figures be if repos were show in them , that would be a much better account of where the market is .

[Hip to be bear]

By what you said in the post i answered you live in the same mind set as her. That's what im talking about . From the governement , the papers, the public , the people on here anyone that has an ounce of common sense , every body is sure that we are in for some lean times . Yet you post in the mind set that things could not be better .

But things are fine. Gordon told us so. He had just about locked in the recovery when the election came along. Sure they will have to pay back some debt after the nasty banks made a mess of things, (though it started in America), but the debt is only £160 billion innit? All the politicians said that we would be ok, and no-one would lose their jobs. Even the Tories were only recklessly planning to cut £6 billion.

Please stop scare mongering. The UK will be fine. The problems are all over in the Euro zone now. Interest rates are low and my IO mortgage payments are so low I have bought a new car. The housing correction is over now. I might go and buy a house!