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Thousands Of University Job Losses


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Oxbridge = good, LSE = good, Durham = good, Everywhere Else = bad.

Did you attend Durham by any chance?

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/stug/universityguide.php

Their failings are understandable if you know their ideology, but it's still all wrong. People are not all equal and cannot be equalised. If you give more people degrees you do not end up with a more intelligent workforce, but instead you get lots of unequal people with devalued quals = back where we started from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocational_education#German_language_areas

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Degrees are largely worthless, unless you went to one of the premier institutions :(

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I introduce a new term to you: EDUCONOMY

The UK's HE institutions employ hundreds of thousands of people (lecturers, backroom staff, etc etc). They also keep hundreds of thousands of people employed indirectly e.g. book publishers, stationery suppliers, BTL types who rely on students etc. On top of that, the UK Educonomy keeps millions of students off the unemployment list!

The UK doesn't need 200,000 graduates every year! The vast majority of jobs are non-graduate. All of those hours spent in lecture rooms, seminars etc are worthless ... employers only care for ONE thing: experience! The UK has call centres full of graduates (£12K?), graduates working as admin officers (£12K?) etc etc. If I was paranoid I would say that millions of graduates have been sold a lie .. and recent graduates will have massive debts over their heads! Government mouthpieces always say the following:

Graduates earn x times more than non-graduates, so they should pay for it through tuition fees ^_^

********!

Edited by Home_To_Roost
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The UK doesn't need 200,000 graduates every year! The vast majority of jobs are non-graduate. All of those hours spent in lecture rooms, seminars etc are worthless ... employers only care for ONE thing: experience! The UK has call centres full of graduates (£12K?), graduates working as admin officers (£12K?) etc etc. If I was paranoid I would say that millions of graduates have been sold a lie .. and recent graduates will have massive debts over their heads! Government mouthpieces always say the following:

********!

I would say that the UK probably does need 200,000 graduates a year. It needs them because the level of education has 'slipped' down over the last 20 years, and university education is now the only path that allows young people to accumulate the knowledge and life skills they need to enter the world of work on the bottom rung. To my mind, a 2010 new graduate is probably at a knowledge and life skills level equivalent to an 18-year-old in 1980.

The problem is that society, culture and the education system is keeping young people infantile and dependent for far longer than in the past. A female 16-year-old working-class school leaver with good O'levels in the mid-60s would be employable in a private sector admin role, expected to have a decent typing speed and shorthand, good spelling and grammar, and be expected to cope with significant PA tasks for a head of department. That sort of thing seems pretty far-fetched now.

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  • 1 month later...

Many of these institutions are ex polys and really should never have become universities. At least if we allow these third rate bodies go bankrupt we can stop kids who are not bright enough for real universities focus on a more realistic career aim.

This is not meant to be snobbish but these worthless unis have stopped many of our low achievers taking jobs n cleaning and agriculture where they could have developed a career just not an office based one.

If you get a 1st at say Law at a poly are you thick or clever?

Is the course easier?

Plus every malinvestment in this economy is under market attack.

UK PLC is going down

Edited by Zngland
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Whole thing is a pile of misinformation and prejudice.

Someone who gets to any university from one of our 'bog-standard' comprehensives has done well. If they get a First, what more can you ask?

Compared to a force-fed Etonian who gets a 2.1 at Oxford, they have achieved much more.

All degrees are a false currency, much inflated. It is time that employers got clever and did better assessments of candidates for the jobs they want doing. Degree classifications tell them nothing and the 'quality' of the university is subjective.

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Guest absolutezero

Whole thing is a pile of misinformation and prejudice.

Someone who gets to any university from one of our 'bog-standard' comprehensives has done well. If they get a First, what more can you ask?

Compared to a force-fed Etonian who gets a 2.1 at Oxford, they have achieved much more.

All degrees are a false currency, much inflated. It is time that employers got clever and did better assessments of candidates for the jobs they want doing. Degree classifications tell them nothing and the 'quality' of the university is subjective.

If I was employing I'd not even look at degree classifications or where they came from. I'd look at subjects.

Then I'd get all interviewees to sit an aptitude/reasoning test.

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Times Higher Ed Supplement, no. 1,941 (1-7 April 2010), p. 9

The V-C, council chairman and finance officer of the University of Gloucestershire have resigned following 08-09 financial statements that show the institution to have made a £6.3 million deficit on an overall income of £67.4 million.

...can't put them in charge of the tuck shop...can we....?..... :rolleyes:

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Whole thing is a pile of misinformation and prejudice.

Someone who gets to any university from one of our 'bog-standard' comprehensives has done well. If they get a First, what more can you ask?

Compared to a force-fed Etonian who gets a 2.1 at Oxford, they have achieved much more.

All degrees are a false currency, much inflated. It is time that employers got clever and did better assessments of candidates for the jobs they want doing. Degree classifications tell them nothing and the 'quality' of the university is subjective.

Assuming everything is equal (completely impossible in reality) then given the choice between an Etonian with a 2:1 from Oxford in Math and someone from a "bog-standard" comprehensive with a first in Media Studies from Cumbria University, I would take the Etonian any day. Two reasons: a real subject from a real university.

As someone from a "sub-standard" comprehensive with a first from Oxbridge in Math, I find it pretty disappointing that people consider my degree to be "false currency". You probably think my PhD in Theoretical Physics is equally worthless. Thankfully Ive done well enough to be able to not worry about the narrow minded types.

Edited by david m
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Assuming everything is equal (completely impossible in reality) then given the choice between an Etonian with a 2:1 from Oxford in Math and someone from a "bog-standard" comprehensive with a first in Media Studies from Cumbria University, I would take the Etonian any day. Two reasons: a real subject from a real university.

As someone from a "sub-standard" comprehensive with a first from Oxbridge in Math, I find it pretty disappointing that people consider my degree to be "false currency". You probably think my PhD in Theoretical Physics is equally worthless. Thankfully Ive done well enough to be able to not worry about the narrow minded types.

Like I said. Forget where it comes from. Forget what class it is. Look at the subject.

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Like I said.  Forget where it comes from.  Forget what class it is.  Look at the subject.

Although it is ironic that having specialised quite heavily to get it, as soon as you do get a PhD it more or less completely ceases to matter what it is in as you then enter a world where people recognise subject divisions are largely marketing fictions.

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Although it is ironic that having specialised quite heavily to get it, as soon as you do get a PhD it more or less completely ceases to matter what it is in as you then enter a world where people recognise subject divisions are largely marketing fictions.

Agreed. There come a point where it makes no odds what it is.

But for bachelors level subject is the best indicator.

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Like I said. Forget where it comes from. Forget what class it is. Look at the subject.

No, look at the person. Ultimately employers hire a person not a subject.

Yes, sometimes specific skills are required, but usually one can test for those. A politically correct bias against the likes of 'media studies' will miss capable people who become useful employees.

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Back in my day things were very different. When I graduated in the late 1970s it was more that any degree showed that you were in the "top 10%". So the fact that my chosen career was IT was not affected by my decision to study Politics, in fact back then the main computer companies specifically targeted non Computer degrees for jobs in programming and technical support - unless you were looking to write compilers.

Actually I'm not convinced that a Computing degree is still much use in the real world (judging by some of the graduates I mix with). It's definitely personality, attitude & intelligence that count.

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No, look at the person. Ultimately employers hire a person not a subject.

Yes, sometimes specific skills are required, but usually one can test for those. A politically correct bias against the likes of 'media studies' will miss capable people who become useful employees.

When someone's drowning on 700 CVs I doubt they look at "people" and try and cut the CVs down to 50.

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When someone's drowning on 700 CVs I doubt they look at "people" and try and cut the CVs down to 50.

Sadly that's true. I once had a job in HR and the filtering is fairly brutal, as it has to be. There simply isn't the time. It is sad that the ability to get a job often down to the ability to market oneself, but there it is.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Also bang on target with the numbers argument. We all understand on this website what happens to the value of money if you print more of it, so it shouldn't be too dofficult for people to grasp what happens to the value of a degree if you make more of them. Sadly, the same people responsible for printing money were also in charge of making degrees.

IMO a degree should not be a filter or a certificate showing how high in the academic pecking order you are - it should be something that people study because they want to learn about that subject in great depth. Whats the point of valuing a degree more because it has higher A level entry requirements ? - why not just hire by A level results directly if your looking for academic ability rather than specialist knowledge ?

As a HPCer I cant support the artificial rationing of degrees to raise their "value" anymore than I support the same being done for houses.

Edited by goldbug9999
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  • 5 years later...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11801902/Clearing-Top-British-universities-dropping-grades-as-they-struggle-to-fill-places.html

'

Britain’s top universities are slashing grade requirements for places on highly-coveted courses as they struggle to attract students during clearing, the Telegraph can disclose.

Russell Group universities, the 24 most elite institutions in the county, had been preparing for fierce competition ahead of a lift on the cap on the number of students universities can recruit.

The reform has seen institutions make unconditional offers even before they knew the applicants’ A-Level results, which usually determine which universities people can aspire to go to.

But universities were still struggling to fill places during clearing today, including the University of Leeds with around 380 places left, Glasgow University with over 200, Manchester with around 180 and Queen Mary with roughly 190.

Top-performing universities were also dropping grades during clearing today.

Southampton university had up to 359 courses in clearing, with some departments dropping at least one grade of the three advertised as required before clearing began.

It had dropped its grade requirements for maths from at least one A* and two AAs to one A and two Bs and from three As in law to three Bs.'

Can't believe this thread is five years old.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11801902/Clearing-Top-British-universities-dropping-grades-as-they-struggle-to-fill-places.html

'

Britain’s top universities are slashing grade requirements for places on highly-coveted courses as they struggle to attract students during clearing, the Telegraph can disclose.

Russell Group universities, the 24 most elite institutions in the county, had been preparing for fierce competition ahead of a lift on the cap on the number of students universities can recruit.

The reform has seen institutions make unconditional offers even before they knew the applicants’ A-Level results, which usually determine which universities people can aspire to go to.

But universities were still struggling to fill places during clearing today, including the University of Leeds with around 380 places left, Glasgow University with over 200, Manchester with around 180 and Queen Mary with roughly 190.

Top-performing universities were also dropping grades during clearing today.

Southampton university had up to 359 courses in clearing, with some departments dropping at least one grade of the three advertised as required before clearing began.

It had dropped its grade requirements for maths from at least one A* and two AAs to one A and two Bs and from three As in law to three Bs.'

Can't believe this thread is five years old.

When I went to university in the late 1990s I think my offers from decent universities were BCC or BBC, even Oxbridge were offering ABB to applicants from my school.

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Instead, or in addition to, dropping grade requirements, they could also drop their tuition fee costs. Need to start applying some hard accounting to get the best ratio of price to students.

Edited by Si1
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Many uk universities are changing no compulsory redundancy policies, others are already making staff redundant, just check out the THES. Changes to the pension scheme make retirement less attractive, this just means that to uni's redundancy is becoming necessary. This is a long and complicated story, but the outlook is poor unless you are a research superstar or teach a large amount of difficult material.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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Many uk universities are changing no compulsory redundancy policies, others are already making staff redundant, just check out the THES. Changes to the pension scheme make retirement less attractive, this just means that to uni's redundancy is becoming necessary. This is a long and complicated story, but the outlook is poor unless you are a research superstar or teach a large amount of difficult material.

Does that seem to differ much with subject?

are any weak universities likely to close down completely like we've been discussing for years?

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