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gruffydd

My Once In A Generation Cut? The Armed Forces. All Of Them

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I'd tend to agree. Create a genuinely independent nuke deterant, a few squads of special forces phsycos for the messy bits and an armed populace swiss style. Job done.

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I'd tend to agree. Create a genuinely independent nuke deterant, a few squads of special forces phsycos for the messy bits and an armed populace swiss style. Job done.

But how would we stand behind the World bully saying 'yeah!!!' as they threaten to flush other nations heads down the toilet?

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Why do we need a nuclear deterent? Who is going to nuke us? We are the only people in the world who are deluded enough to think that anyone else really would want to invade/take over the UK. It is time that we all just accepted that the UK is not a world super power, we are not a particulaly remarkable nation and we should stop wasting money that we don't have against a potential enemy which does not exist.

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Why do we need a nuclear deterent? Who is going to nuke us? We are the only people in the world who are deluded enough to think that anyone else really would want to invade/take over the UK. It is time that we all just accepted that the UK is not a world super power, we are not a particulaly remarkable nation and we should stop wasting money that we don't have against a potential enemy which does not exist.

Whilst I agree - I think the 'nuclear deterrent' is just a sanitised way of saying 'nuclear threat'.

I think, despite massive evidence to the contrary, our leaders believe that we still have a command and control role in global affairs - largely through a 'don't fVk with us, do what we say, we have nukes' strategy.

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Why do we need a nuclear deterent? Who is going to nuke us? We are the only people in the world who are deluded enough to think that anyone else really would want to invade/take over the UK. It is time that we all just accepted that the UK is not a world super power, we are not a particulaly remarkable nation and we should stop wasting money that we don't have against a potential enemy which does not exist.

I get quite tired of reading nonsense like this. Britain is in the top 10 most powerful nations in just about every measure (usually in the top 5). OK Britain isn't a superpower but it is a great power and has been subject to threats (Suez canal) and direct attacks (Falklands) before.

Leave the forces alone, they generate jobs and expertise, give Britain world influence and are a source of pride for the nation. Cut the crap instead (quangos, NHS management, the surveillance state, generous benefits etc.).

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I get quite tired of reading nonsense like this. Britain is in the top 10 most powerful nations in just about every measure (usually in the top 5). OK Britain isn't a superpower but it is a great power and has been subject to threats (Suez canal) and direct attacks (Falklands) before.

Leave the forces alone, they generate jobs and expertise, give Britain world influence and are a source of pride for the nation. Cut the crap instead (quangos, NHS management, the surveillance state, generous benefits etc.).

Sir, any accusation of nonsense upon my comments must equally be applied to your own. I would not disband the armed forces but I have issue with the big nuclear button. Such force is useless against the sorts of example you provided - the deterrent does not work when your attacker know that you would not be willing to use it. As such, a small attacker has little to fear from it. So who do you imagine is big enough to be worried? Now, out of that short list, who would have the slightest interest in threatening us? That analysis gives me a number which conveniently looks like zero.

You speak of powerful nations - what is this 'power' about which you speak? Our supposed power is mostly in our deterrent, our armed forces, our influence within the world (etc.). But these are rather useless quantities to anyone but us.

I think that people, such as yourself, rush to defend your home nation without thinking. We may have much to lose, but there just isn't a reasonable gain to be had by someone truly threatening us.

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Why do we need a nuclear deterent? Who is going to nuke us? We are the only people in the world who are deluded enough to think that anyone else really would want to invade/take over the UK. It is time that we all just accepted that the UK is not a world super power, we are not a particulaly remarkable nation and we should stop wasting money that we don't have against a potential enemy which does not exist.

excellent point

I agree 100%

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excellent point

I agree 100%

I am sure there are many terrorist organisations around the globe that would 'nuke us' in a heartbeat if they had the ways and means to do so.

Maintaining a credible deterrent makes other non West friendly nations think twice about giving them the ways and means!!

This is all conjecture as within 20 years I suspect a Western city will suffer a Nuclear Attack. We need to maintain the means to contain such an action as and when it will occur.

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Sir, any accusation of nonsense upon my comments must equally be applied to your own. I would not disband the armed forces but I have issue with the big nuclear button. Such force is useless against the sorts of example you provided - the deterrent does not work when your attacker know that you would not be willing to use it. As such, a small attacker has little to fear from it. So who do you imagine is big enough to be worried? Now, out of that short list, who would have the slightest interest in threatening us? That analysis gives me a number which conveniently looks like zero.

You speak of powerful nations - what is this 'power' about which you speak? Our supposed power is mostly in our deterrent, our armed forces, our influence within the world (etc.). But these are rather useless quantities to anyone but us.

I think that people, such as yourself, rush to defend your home nation without thinking. We may have much to lose, but there just isn't a reasonable gain to be had by someone truly threatening us.

Right now Britain's nuclear weapons don't have much use. However, the nuclear club can only expand and the world is an unpredictable place. If the doom-mongers are right and the USA collapses Britain's' independent (ish) nuclear arsenal would become more important.

Britain's power is it's ability to quickly wage war abroad, few other nations are capable of this. This ability allows it to broker peace between nations or opposing sides in civil war and to intervene directly (Gulf War 1, Kosovo). Britain's influence in the common wealth has some positive implications for trade, as well as it's influence within the EU. These "quantities" are therefore useful to people outside of Britain.

I agree that right now there is little to gain by threatening us, but Britain's allies are quite frequently threatened (South Korea, Japan and previously Kuwait) and any attack on them would have a major impact on Britain.

Britain is no longer my home nation. I live in New Zealand but I'm happy to defend Britain in arguments like this because I have a sound knowledge of history.

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I am sure there are many terrorist organisations around the globe that would 'nuke us' in a heartbeat if they had the ways and means to do so.

Maintaining a credible deterrent makes other non West friendly nations think twice about giving them the ways and means!!

This is all conjecture as within 20 years I suspect a Western city will suffer a Nuclear Attack. We need to maintain the means to contain such an action as and when it will occur.

Grimsby or Dundee wouldn't be a huge loss.

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Grimsby or Dundee wouldn't be a huge loss.

If I were paranoid, I'd think you posted that deliberatly!

Nuking Dundee would be a sad loss to the medical world, not to mention the games industry. No more Grand theft Auto games!!!!

Edinburgh however, now that's just full of bankers. No loss :lol:

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If I were paranoid, I'd think you posted that deliberatly!

Nuking Dundee would be a sad loss to the medical world, not to mention the games industry. No more Grand theft Auto games!!!!

Edinburgh however, now that's just full of bankers. No loss :lol:

True - the trams and other works have made a mess of this once stunning City. Let's swap Dundee for Edinburgh. As for Grimsby though....

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If I were paranoid, I'd think you posted that deliberatly!

Nuking Dundee would be a sad loss to the medical world, not to mention the games industry. No more Grand theft Auto games!!!!

Edinburgh however, now that's just full of bankers. No loss :lol:

There's also a nice piece of history in Dundee (the early 19th century sail frigate Unicorn) - can we move that before nuking the place?

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There's also a nice piece of history in Dundee (the early 19th century sail frigate Unicorn) - can we move that before nuking the place?

Ok how about Airdrie ? Surely no one can have objections to that ?

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Why do you think we keep the Armed Forces for defence? That's what the propaganda tells us. The MoD should really be renamed back to the MoW.

We can debate the ethics all day and night, but at the end of the day, we have been waging expeditionary war constantly for centuries and I cannot see that stopping in our lifetimes.

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Why do you think we keep the Armed Forces for defence? That's what the propaganda tells us. The MoD should really be renamed back to the MoW.

We can debate the ethics all day and night, but at the end of the day, we have been waging expeditionary war constantly for centuries and I cannot see that stopping in our lifetimes.

Of course not. That's what Africa is for. Our only mistake these days is being in the wrong place (the most well-known classic blunder, "Never get involved in a land war in Asia").

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There's also a nice piece of history in Dundee (the early 19th century sail frigate Unicorn) - can we move that before nuking the place?

We went to a 'haunted' evening on the Unicorn. Very well done, and very creepy. My other half nearly had a heart attack, and it took two days for her nail marks to fade from my arm!!!

Btw, in response to the OP. Lot's of fat in the services could be cut, and I would lay odds that we would end up saving both money and lives.

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Guest happy?

http://www.guardian....fantasy-enemies

We are safer than at any time since the Norman conquest. Yet £45bn is spent defending Britain against fantasy enemies

Without a nuclear deterrent we lack credibility when Cameron stands up to the Americans over BP

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Of course not. That's what Africa is for. Our only mistake these days is being in the wrong place (the most well-known classic blunder, "Never get involved in a land war in Asia").

Oh, no, we've also been in Africa tons of times with little "projects". Just not as heavily this century, so far.

I take your point about Asia, you would've thought we've learnt the lessons of the previous Afghan wars.

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Oh, no, we've also been in Africa tons of times with little "projects". Just not as heavily this century, so far.

I take your point about Asia, you would've thought we've learnt the lessons of the previous Afghan wars.

My reply wasn't meant to be taken remotely seriously (the "blunder" part being a line from a film).

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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