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Realistbear

Fed: Inflation At Lowest Ebb Since 1960

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I conducted a street pool in Liverpool. Everybody said inflation was rising prices.

Therefore that is what it is.

Irrefutable.

Here everybody have a look at this, very funny. Lets see the man in the street in action.

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I said that inflation is an increase in the money supply. It's hardly my fault if you don't ask "supply to what?" and consider that in your musings, now is it?

Yes. The key word here is supply. Is more money being supplied to same number of economic partipants? Or is the supply decreasing? Are more or less transactions occuring? Are people losing their jobs or spending like theres no tomorrow?

No, because credit isn't money.

Who says? 90%+ of bank credit owners who know what bank credit is and choose to call it money - say otherwise.

Why are you factually correct - and they are factually wrong?

What are the real world consequences of this inflation meme that you keep pumping out going to be?

Edited by Alan B'Stard MP

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Here everybody have a look at this, very funny. Lets see the man in the street in action.

Fortunatly injin is the only moron to have conducted street polls and pass the results as conclusive proof.

I only say it for effect because it is equally unveritiable and ridiculous.

;)

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Yes. The key word here is supply. Is more money being supplied to same number of economic partipants? Or is the supply decreasing? Are more or less transactions occuring? Are people losing their jobs or spending like theres no tomorrow?

If the amount of money in total supplied to the economy remains the same but the number os particpants and activities shrank, that's rather obviously an increase in supply.

Who says? 90%+ of bank credit owners who know what bank credit is and choose to call it money - say otherwise.

As they are something like 2% of the population and don't do any of the actual work around here, they don't count.

Wander along to the farm that grows your food and ask the people there what "bank credit" is - they'll almost certainly have no idea. They will now what money is though - notes and coins.

Nice attempt at a linguistic trick btw, props.

Why are you factually correct - and they are factually wrong?

Because money is found by mass opinion, by definition.

Why are the real world consequences of this inflation meme that you keep pumping out going to be?

This doesn't make much sense to me, sorry.

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Fortunatly injin is the only moron to have conducted street polls and pass the results as conclusive proof.

I only say it for effect because it is equally unveritiable and ridiculous.

;)

Money is whatever the bulk of people think it is, by definition - therefore a few street polls are going to give you the right answer.

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If the amount of money in total supplied to the economy remains the same but the number os particpants and activities shrank, that's rather obviously an increase in supply.

But the supply is dropping. The measures of bankers lies says so.

As they are something like 2% of the population and don't do any of the actual work around here, they don't count.

Why don't they count?

Wander along to the farm that grows your food and ask the people there what "bank credit" is - they'll almost certainly have no idea. They will now what money is though - notes and coins.

If your neck of the woods maybe?

Because money is found by mass opinion, by definition.

Strange foray into collectivism for an anarchist.

Show me the definition....

This doesn't make much sense to me, sorry.

What consequences do you foresee given that you profess we have hyperinflated.

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But the supply is dropping. The measures of bankers lies says so.

Credit isn't money.

Why don't they count?

Not enough of them to count towards mass opinion.

If your neck of the woods maybe?

Try yours.

Strange foray into collectivism for an anarchist.

Show me the definition....

Money is the whatever people think is the most commonly accepted item in an economy.

For example - ciggies in a prison will be money.

What consequences do you foresee given that you profess we have hyperinflated.

For who?

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Credit isn't money.

I say it is.

Credit is money.

Money is also notes.

Money is also coins.

Money is also credit.

Am I wrong? Who is to say I am wrong.

Not enough of them to count towards mass opinion.

Mass opinion doesn't exist. Please be factual.

Try yours.

They call it money.

Money is the whatever people think is the most commonly accepted item in an economy.

For example - ciggies in a prison will be money.

Economies don't exist. Please stop indulging in these fantasies. There are no special flowers, collective or otherwise.

If I call something money - it is money. And no one can tell me otherwise.

You have still to provide proof of this definitive godlike definition.

For who?

For the masses - who apparently hold mass opinion.

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I say it is.

Credit is money.

Money is also notes.

Money is also coins.

Money is also credit.

Am I wrong? Who is to say I am wrong.

Everyone else.

Mass opinion doesn't exist. Please be factual.

Mass opinion does exist - what doesn't exist is mass opinion seperate from the measurement of many individual opinions. It's only a headcount.

They call it money.

That's nice.

Economies don't exist. Please stop indulging in these fantasies. There are no special flowers, collective or otherwise.

Oh there are - in this sense of a measurement.

If I call something money - it is money. And no one can tell me otherwise.

That's right. What money for an economy is though, is when you measure up all those opinions, and find the most commonly held one.

You have still to provide proof of this definitive godlike definition.

Simple observation. Try it sometime.

For the masses - who apparently hold mass opinion.

Oh they will continue to run themselves ragged trying to repay bank credit, continue to fail for a little while yet and then start the brick chucking.

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Everyone else.

Mass opinion does exist - what doesn't exist is mass opinion seperate from the measurement of many individual opinions. It's only a headcount.

That's nice.

Oh there are - in this sense of a measurement.

That's right. What money for an economy is though, is when you measure up all those opinions, and find the most commonly held one.

Simple observation. Try it sometime.

Oh they will continue to run themselves ragged trying to repay bank credit, continue to fail for a little while yet and then start the brick chucking.

If the banks issue a bunch of new lies, the price of a house will go up, become more expensive, yes?

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Everyone else.

I have to adjust my opinions to what they think? Why? Just because they might be more in numbers - that makes them factually correct?

Mass opinion does exist

No it does not. I've never seen it. What does it look like in a wheelbarrow?

- what doesn't exist is mass opinion seperate from the measurement of many individual opinions. It's only a headcount.

This make no sense. Could you elaborate?

That's nice.

It is because it is.

Oh there are - in this sense of a measurement.

You can't measure the universe because the act of measurement changes it. There is no 'economy'. It is a only a notion - much like Alice in Wonderland. Funny how you indulge in fantasy when it suits you but deride others...

That's right. What money for an economy is though, is when you measure up all those opinions, and find the most commonly held one.

Where does one economy start and another end?

Simple observation. Try it sometime.

I did. I noticed people have all sort of names for money. Some people say tenners - some people say benjamins - some people say rupee.

There is no consensus on what money is definitively. However you seem to think you have the definition of money that makes it instantly recognizable - yet you cannot provide it.

Oh they will continue to run themselves ragged trying to repay bank credit, continue to fail for a little while yet and then start the brick chucking.

So just a few bricks? Nothing to be too worried about then. Everything will still have sunday lunch?

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Here everybody have a look at this, very funny. Lets see the man in the street in action.

You've managed to point to the obvious - that people are easily deceived. The guy isn't saying: 'sign the I AM A MORON petition'. He is lying and people are then taking the lie in good faith.

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If the banks issue a bunch of new lies, the price of a house will go up, become more expensive, yes?

Until the lie is revealed.

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I have to adjust my opinions to what they think? Why? Just because they might be more in numbers - that makes them factually correct?

When we are measuring what the majority think, of course.

No it does not. I've never seen it. What does it look like in a wheelbarrow?

you should have read on.

This make no sense. Could you elaborate?

Yes.

It is because it is.

Still nice.

You can't measure the universe because the act of measurement changes it. There is no 'economy'. It is a only a notion - much like Alice in Wonderland. Funny how you indulge in fantasy when it suits you but deride others...

I'm not measuring the universe, just doing a headcount of opinion.

Where does one economy start and another end?

Whereever people believe.

I did. I noticed people have all sort of names for money. Some people say tenners - some people say benjamins - some people say rupee.

Exactly.

There is no consensus on what money is definitively. However you seem to think you have the definition of money that makes it instantly recognizable - yet you cannot provide it.

I outlined a methodology to find it.

So just a few bricks? Nothing to be too worried about then. Everything will still have sunday lunch?

Lets hope that farmers pay more attention to the obvious (lots of people in the world who will want feeding) than to banker lies.

The current situation os of course deadly serious - the banker lies convinced the general population that the future contained many orders of magnitude more resources than it actually will. Worse, because one of the banker lies is to misuse the word savings most people will also assume that the wealth is there but has been stolen.

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You've managed to point to the obvious - that people are easily deceived. The guy isn't saying: 'sign the I AM A MORON petition'. He is lying and people are then taking the lie in good faith.

Yes, he proves the point completely.

Here is a video of Derren Brown using on the fly hypnotic techniques to pay for goods with paper. Note the reaction of the guy who it doesn't work on....

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/956409/derren_brown_paying_with_paper_tvdownloads_dr_ag/

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When we are measuring what the majority think, of course.

The majority do not think tenners. There is no majority.

1 .5 Billion sau Ruan

300+ Million say US$

300 Million say Euros

1.1 Billion say Rupee

60 Million say GBP

There is no consensus or majority defining what money is. You are misinformed or trying to mislead.

Yet you say you have a definition.

Please provide it!

Edited by Alan B'Stard MP

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The majority do not think tenners. There is no majority.

1 .5 Billion sau Ruan

300+ Million say US$

300 Billion say Euros

1.1 Billion say Ruppe

60 Million say GBP

There is no consensus or majority defining what money is. You are misinformed or trying to mislead.

Yet you say you have a definition.

Please provide it!

pffft

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Isn't this discussion academic anyway?

If we start to get credit deflation, people will start to default on their loans, making banks less solvent. The ones close to failure will either be allowed to fail and/or bailed out, to prevent cascading bank failures. They've already shown willingness to do this in 2008/9, so I don't see this being different a second time around.

The thing is, there is only so much borrowing the government can do, to bail out said failing banks. If they end up hitting the printing presses in a semi-permanent way, then we're going to risk a run on the pound (which could signal high interest rates, currency worth less, import costs up etc) and/or stagnation in the economy (as few will be borrowing as the banks would be scared, as would the borrowers).

As more credit becomes replaced with printed money, the more promises of growth in the future will be shown to have been broken. Although the numbers will balance, the lack of growth will be what causes the inflation. Those widgets that were supposed to appear in the future, to mop up some of that credit will not materialise. Instead, there will be more printed money chasing the old widgets. We have been living in the present, borrowing from a future which won't happen. Replacing credit with printed money will not replace the promised growth, when it fails to happen.

The chance of letting the alternative happen, letting the banks fail and admitting that the promise of growth was but a mirage, seems unlikely too. Banks are leveraged towards growth. They have bet the farm on it happening YoY... 30+ times. Leverage may be lucrative on the way up, but it's devastating on the way down - the small drop in GDP recently, would look tiny in comparison. If people think credit is hard to get now, imagine trying to get it when banks are falling like dominoes! This is why I think two things - 1. The above route will be taken and it will be inflationary (perhaps hyper) in the long run and 2. We need a banking system which isn't so leveraged against future growth (or rather one which doesn't threaten collapse should negative growth occur) so this can't happen again... we can't assume growth will always be there, particularly if the results of peak oil/energy will be as bad as they say.

Edited by Traktion

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Still finding it hard to validate the State ;)

Oh no, theres no need for a state for there to be a widely used money.

As any prisoner trading fags will tell you or Somalian with silver can attest.

You are just whalwe barreling me a bit. As much fun as it is, I am not all that up for it today and so must delcine the ratholes you are trying to steer me down.

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  • 201 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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