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Alfie Moon

Daily Mail Hits New Low In Cgt Campaign

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Yep, the DM has hit a new low in its campaign against the CGT for BTL and 2nd home properties. This time its an article about the possibility of 150k oap's in care homes being hit by the hike in CGT.

I would have thought a large percentage of this 150k oap's in care homes would only see CGT rise to 20% from 18% as their incomes are unlikely to place them in the 40%/50% income tax band - am I right?

Would be good to see as many Readers Comments added as possible .... and copy and paste the Readers Comments to send in letters to MP's, George Osbourne, the PM's Office, etc.

For the article see:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1284827/Warning-capital-gains-tax-risk-150-000-care-home-residents.html

I should add that they are not moderating comments for this article so you are guaranteed that your comment will appear on the webpage.

Edited by Alfie Moon

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And a similar article in the Daily Telegraph - also accepting Readers Comments, see:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100006066/cgt-change-will-hit-families-with-relatives-in-care-homes/#

And if you want to add Readers Comments to the Daily Telegraph's Anti-CGT Rise Campaign page, see the following:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/capital-gains-tax/7773125/Capital-Gains-Tax-campaign.html

Edited by Alfie Moon

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Don't let reality get in the way of the lefty wet dream of screwing rich people. ;)

You are right - it is our fuedal duty to tax producers into the ground and leave all unearned incomes intact

Edited by Stars

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Yep, the DM has hit a new low in its campaign against the CGT for BTL and 2nd home properties. This time its an article about the possibility of 150k oap's in care homes being hit by the hike in CGT.

I would have thought a large percentage of this 150k oap's in care homes would only see CGT rise to 20% from 18% as their incomes are unlikely to place them in the 40%/50% income tax band - am I right?

Would be good to see as many Readers Comments added as possible .... and copy and paste the Readers Comments to send in letters to MP's, George Osbourne, the PM's Office, etc.

For the article see:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1284827/Warning-capital-gains-tax-risk-150-000-care-home-residents.html

I should add that they are not moderating comments for this article so you are guaranteed that your comment will appear on the webpage.

If your neighbour gets a new car are you the kind of person who accidentally runs a key down the side of it?

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If your neighbour gets a new car are you the kind of person who accidentally runs a key down the side of it?

My, have I got under your skin or something? So what are your arguments for BTL'ers not paying the same level of tax as other people pay on their income?

Edited by Alfie Moon

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My, have I got under your skin or something? So what are your arguments for BTL'ers not paying the same level of tax as other people pay on their income?

I have no BTLs. I seem to recall you starting more than one thread covering this topic. Do people with money get under your skin?

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I have no BTLs. I seem to recall you starting more than one thread covering this topic. Do people with money get under your skin?

That's not much of an argument

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I have no BTLs. I seem to recall you starting more than one thread covering this topic. Do people with money get under your skin?

So, what you are saying is that it's OK to tax the proceeds of rampant HPI at a lower rate than those who (presumably) work hard to get into the higher tax brackets?

And as I understand it, it's only paid when the asset is sold, so a person who runs a property portfolio as a business (i.e. making money from rent) would not be affected, only those in search of a quick flip.

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I have no BTLs. I seem to recall you starting more than one thread covering this topic. Do people with money get under your skin?

No.

Have you got anything sensible to say Minos? You seem to be one of very few HPC'ers that are against the CGT hike for BTL properties.

Just to be clear I'm pro the CGT hike in full with no taper relief for BTL properties (unproductive are of the economy that sucks huge amounts of money out of productive areas of the economy) but would support a compromise on the CGT hike for shares (ie productive areas of the economy) - ie same stance that many HPC'ers are taking on this issue. You on the other hand want to protect BTL'ers it would seem despite the large distortion this has created in the property market adding considerably to the pressure that has pushed house prices up to boom time levels.

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If your neighbour gets a new car are you the kind of person who accidentally runs a key down the side of it?

I'm the kind of person who sees a neighbour's brand new car and thinks 1 of 2 things:

- If I like them: damn, sorry to see them waste their money, I hope its a good copy & they keep it a long time to spread the loss,

- If I don't like them: yay, another c0ck has thrown money back into the wider economy, I hope they cherish the car then sell it for a huge loss when its still like new.

No need to scratch it, they have already hurt themselves quite badly.

As for CGT, relax guys, people who are stupid enough to get involved without proactively managing their tax affairs deserve everything they get. Its a natural process.

A lot of dumb people with unearned income are about to get fleeced to help address the deficit.

Good.

Edited by xux42

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No.

Have you got anything sensible to say Minos? You seem to be one of very few HPC'ers that are against the CGT hike for BTL properties.

Just to be clear I'm pro the CGT hike in full with no taper relief for BTL properties (unproductive are of the economy that sucks huge amounts of money out of productive areas of the economy) but would support a compromise on the CGT hike for shares (ie productive areas of the economy) - ie same stance that many HPC'ers are taking on this issue. You on the other hand want to protect BTL'ers it would seem despite the large distortion this has created in the property market adding considerably to the pressure that has pushed house prices up to boom time levels.

I think you're doing a great job. I'm sceptical of the buyers "strike" but this seems to be working. Well done.

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No.

Have you got anything sensible to say Minos? You seem to be one of very few HPC'ers that are against the CGT hike for BTL properties.

Just to be clear I'm pro the CGT hike in full with no taper relief for BTL properties (unproductive are of the economy that sucks huge amounts of money out of productive areas of the economy) but would support a compromise on the CGT hike for shares (ie productive areas of the economy) - ie same stance that many HPC'ers are taking on this issue. You on the other hand want to protect BTL'ers it would seem despite the large distortion this has created in the property market adding considerably to the pressure that has pushed house prices up to boom time levels.

The distortion occurred because the government allowed the banks to lend money hand over fist. It's hardly surprising that some people took advantage of that. I think you want to punish the wrong people.

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The distortion occurred because the government allowed the banks to lend money hand over fist. It's hardly surprising that some people took advantage of that. I think you want to punish the wrong people.

I can't begin to imagine what you mean by "punish". Something like "let them keep most of the unearned gains but also pay tax" would be a rather more measured way of putting it. As opposed to "let them keep nearly all of the unearned gains". There really is no "punish"ment involved.

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The distortion occurred because the government allowed the banks to lend money hand over fist. It's hardly surprising that some people took advantage of that. I think you want to punish the wrong people.

It's not really a punishment - none of it was earned in the first place. It's more like the removal of a free gift

In contrast, wages levied on working and producing are a real net punishment for working

Edited by Stars

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It's not really a punishment - none of it was earned in the first place. It's more like the removal of a free gift

In contrast, wages levied on working and producing are a real net punishment for working

If the government is powerless to control the banks, they should do the next best thing which is to substantially raise stamp duty on all property purchases. This would correct house prices almost immediately. The added benefit being the envious gains BTLers thought they had would vanish too. No more free gift. No one got ahead of you in the game of life. You'll be happy too.

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It's not really a punishment - none of it was earned in the first place. It's more like the removal of a free gift

In contrast, wages levied on working and producing are a real net punishment for working

+1

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The distortion occurred because the government allowed the banks to lend money hand over fist. It's hardly surprising that some people took advantage of that. I think you want to punish the wrong people.

And BTL has played a significant role in distorting the property market.

Before the tax breaks given to BTL - in 1997 there were about 70k outstanding BTL mortgages. By 2007 there over 700k outstanding BTL mortgages and currently there are over 1 million (and this is just the BTL properties with an outstanding mortgage) - hardly insignificant - indeed a major contributor in pricing out the majority of a whole generation of young adults from being able to buy a home. Also, as I said before - BTL has played a very significant role in sucking huge amounts of money away from productive areas of the economy into the unproductive area of the economy of BTL and property speculation. Due to the economic and social harm that BTL does I, like many people here and across the UK, think action needs to be taken to disincentivise BTL as a form of investment - the hike in CGT would be a start in this process.

Edited by Alfie Moon

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I think you're doing a great job. I'm sceptical of the buyers "strike" but this seems to be working. Well done.

+1

Alfie - thanks for highlighting all these let's-tax-the-workers-instead articles. I always make a point of going to the article and rating the comments that I agree with.

Keep up the good work!

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Minos, if you wanted the government to support passive real estate gains as a welfare for the rich you should have voted labour, the welfare party.

Edited by Stars

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If the government is powerless to control the banks, they should do the next best thing which is to substantially raise stamp duty on all property purchases. This would correct house prices almost immediately. The added benefit being the envious gains BTLers thought they had would vanish too. No more free gift. No one got ahead of you in the game of life. You'll be happy too.

You sound almost like absolute zero when he defends public pensions (another benefit which comes at an economic cost to others). You refuse to make a distinction between self defence and envy.

I do agree – the problem of real estate gains (the actual problem) could be tackled far more directly. Unfortunately, a plan like yours above or anything I might suggest which would address this directly and exclusively would come up against even stiffer opposition from the real estate lobby -

Edit to add - your plan doesn't do much to deter long term, big speculations

Edited by Stars

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I am having problems, or have all the comments on the article been wiped ?

Sometimes they disapear for a while but usually come back - I assume its due to maintenace, or similar, rather than anything more sinister. Hopefully they will be back within 20 mins or so.

Anyone added to the Daily Telegraph article?

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I am having problems, or have all the comments on the article been wiped ?

The comments are back up on the DM website and the facility to add further comments is also back in action.

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Just to be clear I'm pro the CGT hike in full with no taper relief for BTL properties (unproductive are of the economy that sucks huge amounts of money out of productive areas of the economy) but would support a compromise on the CGT hike for shares (ie productive areas of the economy)

Exactly my position. What worries me is that we may end up with the opposite - 40% for shares and other asset based personal investments yet taper relief and/or lower rate on non-residence property.

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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