Start Of The Week Daily Mail Cgt Article ....

[Alfie Moon]

See the following DM anti-CGT article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1284565/We-wont-punish-savers-says-Cameron-new-hint-CGT.html

It is open house for adding readers comments, i.e. comments are not being moderated.

Some anti-CGT for BTL propeties people are already posting comments - we need to go and put the case for the full hike in CGT for BTL

[The Masked Tulip]

bump

[live in hope]

See the following DM anti-CGT article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1284565/We-wont-punish-savers-says-Cameron-new-hint-CGT.html

It is open house for adding readers comments, i.e. comments are not being moderated.

Some anti-CGT for BTL propeties people are already posting comments - we need to go and put the case for the full hike in CGT for BTL

I dont get all this tax anybody who has anything shit on here. Pure jealousy. In case we have forgot we are spending too much as a nation. We cant keep it up and try to solve it by extending taxation. Cuts in pensions/benifits / everything, is the only way out. Back to sensible times is the only way because tax is not an everextending option.

[sbn]

I dont get all this tax anybody who has anything shit on here. Pure jealousy. In case we have forgot we are spending too much as a nation. We cant keep it up and try to solve it by extending taxation. Cuts in pensions/benifits / everything, is the only way out. Back to sensible times is the only way because tax is not an everextending option.

Whats the difference between .....

1. someone who has been given a free house due to HPI boosting initiatives by Nulab

and

2. Someone who has been given a free house by Nulabs benefit culture?

Answer

group 1 get to keep the house.

TAX THEM

bump.

Edited June 7, 2010 by sbn

[live in hope]

Whats the difference between .....

1. someone who has been given a free house due to HPI boosting initiatives by Nulab

and

2. Someone who has been given a free house by Nulabs benefit culture?

Answer

group 1 get to keep the house.

TAX THEM

bump.

Very queer reckoning. Since when has a purchaser been given a free house. And its true they are free on benifits. By that reconing there should be a tax on benifits in kind for social housing.

[DeepLurker]

I dont get all this tax anybody who has anything shit on here. Pure jealousy. In case we have forgot we are spending too much as a nation. We cant keep it up and try to solve it by extending taxation. Cuts in pensions/benifits / everything, is the only way out. Back to sensible times is the only way because tax is not an everextending option.

Maybe you should try reading one of the many threads on CGT before spouting rubbish about this forum. I think the various pro-CGT posters have been very clear in their arguments - jealousy has nothing to do with it.

[uncle_monty]

I dont get all this tax anybody who has anything shit on here. Pure jealousy. In case we have forgot we are spending too much as a nation. We cant keep it up and try to solve it by extending taxation. Cuts in pensions/benifits / everything, is the only way out. Back to sensible times is the only way because tax is not an everextending option.

"Live in hope" I responded to you on a CGT thread yesterday. Perhaps you can address my points below?

Monty

"I'm afraid we are "all in this together". Why should unearned profits continue to receive very generous tax breaks in the face of the UK's great financial storm whilst modest earners lose their jobs?

My preference would be CGT on non-business assets at marginal tax rate (floor at 40%), £2,500 threshold with indexation relief i.e. tax on "real" capital gains.

Taper relief is a red herring. Greedy "investors" in 2nd/3rd/4th....nth homes buying for the long term or BTL speculators flipping properties between themselves for quick profits are the same in my book. BTL has been a blight on this country for over a decade.

If you disagree strongly then please tell me precisely where the money for the deficit is going to come from? I accept that as I'm pretty young I will share some of the burden through higher taxes and lesser public services (i.e. my quality of life will fall over the next 10, 20, 30? years). Can't see the problem with older generations paying their share as a lump sum. Please explain how this is unfair in any way? "

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=144428&st=15&p=2557756entry2557756

Edited June 7, 2010 by uncle_monty

[live in hope]

"Live in hope" I responded to you on a CGT thread yesterday. Perhaps you can address my points below?

Monty

"I'm afraid we are "all in this together". Why should unearned profits continue to receive very generous tax breaks in the face of the UK's great financial storm whilst modest earners lose their jobs?

My preference would be CGT on non-business assets at marginal tax rate (floor at 40%), £2,500 threshold with indexation relief i.e. tax on "real" capital gains.

Taper relief is a red herring. Greedy "investors" in 2nd/3rd/4th....nth homes buying for the long term or BTL speculators flipping properties between themselves for quick profits are the same in my book. BTL has been a blight on this country for over a decade.

If you disagree strongly then please tell me precisely where the money for the deficit is going to come from? I accept that as I'm pretty young I will share some of the burden through higher taxes and lesser public services (i.e. my quality of life will fall over the next 10, 20, 30? years). Can't see the problem with older generations paying their share as a lump sum. Please explain how this is unfair in any way? "

Gladly i will. I just think all this is a red herring.Before labour messed it up it was a fair tax, complete with inbuilt indexation and taper for length of time held. Its not the fault of those who have invested in property as a pension arrangement, its labours for feckin up faith in pensions full stop. To now call a property invested pension immoral is a bit over the top. Prior to browns change CGT had inbuilt measures for keeping an investment long term, and thats a good idea i think. By all meand have an arrangement to hit get rich quick merchants. I dont think the deficit will be solved by any of this. Its a political thing to appease the lib dems, and will probably do more harm than good if it goes through. The deficit is going to have to be met in large by cutting what we spend. Cuts to services, pensions, wages, cuts in capital spending etc. No sensible govt would have ever let it get to this, but a bit of CGT wont fix it. I also dont think its entirely down to landlords and second home owners that we are in the mess either. Its a national desease that has enveloped the population in general. One of i want it now and i deserve it. Until things change and we as a nation realise we cant have it anymore we wont get out of the shit.

[live in hope]

Maybe you should try reading one of the many threads on CGT before spouting rubbish about this forum. I think the various pro-CGT posters have been very clear in their arguments - jealousy has nothing to do with it.

I do know a bit about cgt actually. And if you cannot see an opposite view without calling it rubbish, then you aint worth responding too.

[live in hope]

"Live in hope" I responded to you on a CGT thread yesterday. Perhaps you can address my points below?

Monty

"I'm afraid we are "all in this together". Why should unearned profits continue to receive very generous tax breaks in the face of the UK's great financial storm whilst modest earners lose their jobs?

My preference would be CGT on non-business assets at marginal tax rate (floor at 40%), £2,500 threshold with indexation relief i.e. tax on "real" capital gains.

Taper relief is a red herring. Greedy "investors" in 2nd/3rd/4th....nth homes buying for the long term or BTL speculators flipping properties between themselves for quick profits are the same in my book. BTL has been a blight on this country for over a decade.

If you disagree strongly then please tell me precisely where the money for the deficit is going to come from? I accept that as I'm pretty young I will share some of the burden through higher taxes and lesser public services (i.e. my quality of life will fall over the next 10, 20, 30? years). Can't see the problem with older generations paying their share as a lump sum. Please explain how this is unfair in any way? "

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=144428&st=15&p=2557756entry2557756

[live in hope]

"Live in hope" I responded to you on a CGT thread yesterday. Perhaps you can address my points below?

Monty

"I'm afraid we are "all in this together". Why should unearned profits continue to receive very generous tax breaks in the face of the UK's great financial storm whilst modest earners lose their jobs?

My preference would be CGT on non-business assets at marginal tax rate (floor at 40%), £2,500 threshold with indexation relief i.e. tax on "real" capital gains.

Taper relief is a red herring. Greedy "investors" in 2nd/3rd/4th....nth homes buying for the long term or BTL speculators flipping properties between themselves for quick profits are the same in my book. BTL has been a blight on this country for over a decade.

If you disagree strongly then please tell me precisely where the money for the deficit is going to come from? I accept that as I'm pretty young I will share some of the burden through higher taxes and lesser public services (i.e. my quality of life will fall over the next 10, 20, 30? years). Can't see the problem with older generations paying their share as a lump sum. Please explain how this is unfair in any way? "

And a final point. When you talk of greedy investors, dont forget you are talking of investors who in some cases have invested real money of their own. Not the banks money. And not only in property. These changes will probably kill off the will for anyone to invest in anything, including funds, shares. Do you really think thatdestroying the will of the population to invest full stop will be good for the country?

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=144428&st=15&p=2557756entry2557756

[Alfie Moon]

I do know a bit about cgt actually. And if you cannot see an opposite view without calling it rubbish, then you aint worth responding too.

And yet your opener on this thread was:

"I dont get all this tax anybody who has anything shit on here. Pure jealousy."

hmmmmm........

[live in hope]

"Live in hope" I responded to you on a CGT thread yesterday. Perhaps you can address my points below?

Monty

"I'm afraid we are "all in this together". Why should unearned profits continue to receive very generous tax breaks in the face of the UK's great financial storm whilst modest earners lose their jobs?

My preference would be CGT on non-business assets at marginal tax rate (floor at 40%), £2,500 threshold with indexation relief i.e. tax on "real" capital gains.

Taper relief is a red herring. Greedy "investors" in 2nd/3rd/4th....nth homes buying for the long term or BTL speculators flipping properties between themselves for quick profits are the same in my book. BTL has been a blight on this country for over a decade.

If you disagree strongly then please tell me precisely where the money for the deficit is going to come from? I accept that as I'm pretty young I will share some of the burden through higher taxes and lesser public services (i.e. my quality of life will fall over the next 10, 20, 30? years). Can't see the problem with older generations paying their share as a lump sum. Please explain how this is unfair in any way? "

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=144428&st=15&p=2557756entry2557756

My sympathies are with you as a youngster after labour has left us in the total shit. But you have 30 or more years of productive effort in you. Many who are relying on a second home as their only pension will not have that luxoury as they near the end of their lives. I am not saying a gain shoudnt be taxed. But it should be fair. You must realise that if all btlers and second home owners all paid 100% profit as tax, it wont scratch the surface of this problem. It will take decades to fix, if it can be fixed. Yes we are all in it. Me too.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

Added my comment.

I must say it seems to me that this campaign has been pretty effective. Every one of the wails articles that I've read recently has been deluged with anti BTL comments wanting the CGT hike.

I hope George and Vince are paying attention.

[live in hope]

And yet your opener on this thread was:

"I dont get all this tax anybody who has anything shit on here. Pure jealousy."

hmmmmm........

Oh come on. You know this is all being hyped up for public consumption.

[live in hope]

Added my comment.

I must say it seems to me that this campaign has been pretty effective. Every one of the wails articles that I've read recently has been deluged with anti BTL comments wanting the CGT hike.

I hope George and Vince are paying attention.

Lets hope so. Soon all this will be forgotten , and we all will be down to paying off the debt in whatever form of tax effects us most. Lets not forget that most on benifits wont pay much at all, and social house recipients nothing at all. The biggest contributers will likely be those who have tried to help themselves in some way. We all need to worry.

[DeepLurker]

I do know a bit about cgt actually. And if you cannot see an opposite view without calling it rubbish, then you aint worth responding too.

I was going to laugh at you, but I see that Alfie Moon has beaten me to it...

PS Great mis-direction in your post. You know very well that it was not your "opposite view" that I was calling "rubbish".

[Agentimmo]

Gladly i will. I just think all this is a red herring.Before labour messed it up it was a fair tax, complete with inbuilt indexation and taper for length of time held. Its not the fault of those who have invested in property as a pension arrangement, its labours for feckin up faith in pensions full stop. To now call a property invested pension immoral is a bit over the top. Prior to browns change CGT had inbuilt measures for keeping an investment long term, and thats a good idea i think. By all meand have an arrangement to hit get rich quick merchants. I dont think the deficit will be solved by any of this. Its a political thing to appease the lib dems, and will probably do more harm than good if it goes through. The deficit is going to have to be met in large by cutting what we spend. Cuts to services, pensions, wages, cuts in capital spending etc. No sensible govt would have ever let it get to this, but a bit of CGT wont fix it. I also dont think its entirely down to landlords and second home owners that we are in the mess either. Its a national desease that has enveloped the population in general. One of i want it now and i deserve it. Until things change and we as a nation realise we cant have it anymore we wont get out of the shit.

As with any investment, the buyer should be aware that previous performance is no guarantee of future performance. And the price of the investment can go down, as well as up.

Pretty simple rules. So why all the bleating from BTL and 2nd house owners who may find that their "investment" doesn't have quite the high rate of return they'd hoped for / banked on ?

Mystefying. Next we'll hear from all those who bought shares in RBS 5 years ago as part of their pension asking for a bail out.............

[live in hope]

I was going to laugh at you, but I see that Alfie Moon has beaten me to it...

PS Great mis-direction in your post. You know very well that it was not your "opposite view" that I was calling "rubbish".

I f you pair are laughing at me maybe its time i started to worry. lol you really need to take a look at everyones view. not just your own, or the opposite. their are many sides to everything.

[live in hope]

As with any investment, the buyer should be aware that previous performance is no guarantee of future performance. And the price of the investment can go down, as well as up.

Pretty simple rules. So why all the bleating from BTL and 2nd house owners who may find that their "investment" doesn't have quite the high rate of return they'd hoped for / banked on ?

Mystefying. Next we'll hear from all those who bought shares in RBS 5 years ago as part of their pension asking for a bail out.............

Of course. Those are the rules of the game. Buts let not forget that 10 years ago btl was seen as supplying houses for people to rent. Now, with a fecked economy its seen as immoral. How things can change. Suppose next year there was a 50% tax on pension payments. Many pensions are invested in things that can be viewed in a bad light, like property. And i dont think the anctics of our governments these days were ever part of any perceived risk on any investment.

[live in hope]

As with any investment, the buyer should be aware that previous performance is no guarantee of future performance. And the price of the investment can go down, as well as up.

Pretty simple rules. So why all the bleating from BTL and 2nd house owners who may find that their "investment" doesn't have quite the high rate of return they'd hoped for / banked on ?

Mystefying. Next we'll hear from all those who bought shares in RBS 5 years ago as part of their pension asking for a bail out.............

And really you should see the difference between putting a dose of increased tax on an investment, thus stealing, and bailing out a bank, thus stealing from someone to give it to another.

[DeepLurker]

I f you pair are laughing at me maybe its time i started to worry. lol you really need to take a look at everyones view. not just your own, or the opposite. their are many sides to everything.

Blah, blah, blah.

I have read many interesting, well-argued posts over the last few days about the need for returning CGT to its earlier rate. Your summary dismissal of all these posts as "jealousy", without any justification as to why they are "jealousy" - or even any examples of these "jealous" posts - says a lot more about you than it does about anyone else.

[sbn]

Very queer reckoning. Since when has a purchaser been given a free house.

Since when? since about 1995. How? oooh come on - don't tell me you didn't know! I'll give you the benefit of the doubt......

Punter gets a BTL mortgage in 1995 and buys an average house for £66k

Punter rents it out to benefits family. -rent conveniently covers mortgage repayments

Punter sells in 2007 for £186k

Punter buys new house with approx £140k equity

How much has he paid out his own pocket for this new house?

How hard has he worked?

How hard did the benefits family work?

Where did the money come from?

How much right does the punter have to stamp his feet and throw his toys about when the state asks for some of its money back?

Edited: to make it less rude

Edited June 7, 2010 by sbn

[live in hope]

Blah, blah, blah.

I have read many interesting, well-argued posts over the last few days about the need for returning CGT to its earlier rate. Your summary dismissal of all these posts as "jealousy", without any justification as to why they are "jealousy" - or even any examples of these "jealous" posts - says a lot more about you than it does about anyone else.

And what do you know about me arsehole

[sbn]

And what do you know about me arsehole

I know you have dark powers when it comes to the swear filter - surely it doesn't allow arsehole

Edited: Fook me - it does!!

Edited June 7, 2010 by sbn