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How Long Until The Capitains Of Industry Call Chinese Workers Lazy?

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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6840103e-6f72-11df-9f43-00144feabdc0.html

Now that they're demanding higher and higher rates of pay, how long before production is moved somewhere cheaper on the basis that 'we can't find the skilled workers we need in China' or 'Chinese workers don't seem very motivated'.

They are lazy bas--d's . they only do a 14 hour day six days a week , and demand accomadation in the places where they work . How dare they ask for beds .

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They are lazy bas--d's . they only do a 14 hour day six days a week , and demand accomadation in the places where they work . How dare they ask for beds .

Yep those lazy chinese - they should work harder for less.

Also lets get rid of the minimum wage in the UK, lets raise taxes for the poorest. Cut taxes for the richest - Yeah those people who are poor, are poor because they choose to be poor - everything is within their control - they could be millionaires if they wanted. Lets get rid benefits, health care and free education.

Also lets increase salaries for CEOs - because they work hard deserve their millions - not like those chinese slackers who only put in 14 hour day, and then have audacity to demand more money. Also keep bailing out the banks so they can reward their staff with more money.

Just trying to sum up the rightwing mindset.

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Guest absolutezero

Yep those lazy chinese - they should work harder for less.

Also lets get rid of the minimum wage in the UK, lets raise taxes for the poorest. Cut taxes for the richest - Yeah those people who are poor, are poor because they choose to be poor - everything is within their control - they could be millionaires if they wanted. Lets get rid benefits, health care and free education.

Also lets increase salaries for CEOs - because they work hard deserve their millions - not like those chinese slackers who only put in 14 hour day, and then have audacity to demand more money. Also keep bailing out the banks so they can reward their staff with more money.

Just trying to sum up the rightwing mindset.

I was going to say, you've read the Conservative manifesto as well then?

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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6840103e-6f72-11df-9f43-00144feabdc0.html

Now that they're demanding higher and higher rates of pay, how long before production is moved somewhere cheaper on the basis that 'we can't find the skilled workers we need in China' or 'Chinese workers don't seem very motivated'.

No can do, factories move away = mass unemployment in China, 100 peeved off young people are dangerous (I was caught up in a huge riot in Seoul last year) 10000 people are worse, 50,000,000 angry young people is grounds for insurrection. You simply cant execute 50 million poeple without somebody noticing.

Which means conscription and Taiwan changing hands maybe.

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Get the b'stard lazy Chinese workers working and working hard , or shut the factories down , their choice queues of people for their jobs if they don't want them , layz sods.

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Just trying to sum up the rightwing mindset.

And doing a good caricature, but completely failing to sum it up accurately. (I would call myself more a liberal than right wing but that is by the by.)

Yep those lazy chinese - they should work harder for less.

At the moment they are in demand, since they work hard for lower pay than most workers demand, but if they want higher enough wages, then they will no longer have an advantage over workers in the UK. Ultimately everything is driven by the consumer (i.e. you and me) wanting lower prices. Lower prices mean you have to have lower costs and one way is to have more productive workers, either by investing in machinery and improving output, or by lowering wages paid, or reducing the number of workers needed. Companies typically do a mixture of all of these things, but they wouldn't do them if people didn't want lower prices.

This is not a bad thing, it is the driver of economic and technological progress through the ages and the reason we are so wealthy now.

Also lets get rid of the minimum wage in the UK, lets raise taxes for the poorest. Cut taxes for the richest - Yeah those people who are poor, are poor because they choose to be poor - everything is within their control - they could be millionaires if they wanted. Lets get rid benefits, health care and free education.

I don't know of anyone saying we should raise taxes on the poorest (only Gordon has done that recently) the Tories had a habit of raising VAT which is not very helpful, but the right are not the only ones who tax the poor.

Experience shows that lowering tax rates on the richest makes them pay more tax. You want the rich to pay a greater share of taxes don't you? So the answer is to lower their tax rates, and take the poor out of tax altogether.

Nobody has everything in their control, but the number of people who are entirely the victim of their circumstances is very small, so I would argue that giving people more freedom allows them to make their situation better, rather than relying on someone to help them, which turns them into dependent children, not self sufficient adults. It ultimately strips them of responsibility for themselves.

No public service is free, nothing is free for that matter. Someone is always paying for it, so the question is who should pay for it. Most people support services like Education or Health care being paid for through taxation. That does not mean that the government has to provide the schools or the hospitals.

One of the biggest problems in the public sector is that they are often effective monopolies and so the consumer (parents, children, patients) have no power to seek better teaching or treatment. The result is higher cost and lower quality that we could have. We could have better services for less money, (after all we have been doing that for years in every other walk of life) so why not try to get them?

Pay for it through taxation, but don't pretend it is free, nothing is.

Benefits and the minimum wage are interesting. The motive is to help people, but the effect is not so clear cut. I think the result is more important than the motive.

If we have a benefits system that looks after people, we shouldn't need a minimum wage.

The current benefits system is set up in such a way that it penalises those who go and get a job. People know this so they don't get a job, because they don't need to. This is a criticism of the system not the people who benefit from it. If we had a decent system, then any job should be worth taking, even if it only paid £1 per hour. People could then be supported in a decent way, and they could also gain skills and get more income from a job, and then move up the scale and get a higher wage.

Currently we have created a system that traps and penalises people instead of helping them, its tragic. What is wrong with wanting to change that?

The research I have seen (from Florida, where the min wage has fluctuated over time) seems to show that the min wage does nothing to tackle poverty. In a simple way this makes sense. If the Min wage is a good idea, why is it only £5.80 per hour, why not £20 per hour? Then we can all be rich!

Also lets increase salaries for CEOs - because they work hard deserve their millions - not like those chinese slackers who only put in 14 hour day, and then have audacity to demand more money. Also keep bailing out the banks so they can reward their staff with more money.

The level of pay for a CEO is not controlled by Government, it is up to the company and its owners to decide what a CEO should be paid. Remember that a company cannot pay its CEO (indefinitely) if the company does not make money, to make money people have to voluntarily buy the products and services that the company supplies.

The only thing that can take your money without giving you something that you want in return is the government. This is where the underlying resentment of the public sector comes from. They can expand increase their perks and salary no matter what, because the govt can simply take or borrow (so future tax) however much money it needs.

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I'm not sure about calling them lazy what might happen is that Chinese quality may be called into question.

I certainly wouldn't fancy being on a production line putting the Q key on a keyboard day in day out 14 hrs per week.

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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6840103e-6f72-11df-9f43-00144feabdc0.html

Now that they're demanding higher and higher rates of pay, how long before production is moved somewhere cheaper on the basis that 'we can't find the skilled workers we need in China' or 'Chinese workers don't seem very motivated'.

China can't keep productivity down and I think they will have fewer people employed and a lower cost per unit in wages but slightly more money for those still working.

Just like the UK 40 years ago we had 7 Million employed in manufacturing but they produced much less per worker and cost more for each unit in wages.

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Foxconn is raising the rates of their workers, hundreds of thousands of them, at a prodigious rate, recently 30% in one go. Yeah Capitalism sucks, send the ******* back to the farms.

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Foxconn is raising the rates of their workers, hundreds of thousands of them, at a prodigious rate, recently 30% in one go. Yeah Capitalism sucks, send the ******* back to the farms.

Because of bad publicity due to a spate of suicides. Apple has demanded they make this move lest their image be further tarnished.

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Because of bad publicity due to a spate of suicides. Apple has demanded they make this move lest their image be further tarnished.

Indeed, rumour has it they were going to announce the "Slave-Pod", its a bit smaller than a slave box.

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Yep those lazy chinese - they should work harder for less.

Also lets get rid of the minimum wage in the UK, lets raise taxes for the poorest. Cut taxes for the richest - Yeah those people who are poor, are poor because they choose to be poor - everything is within their control - they could be millionaires if they wanted. Lets get rid benefits, health care and free education.

Also lets increase salaries for CEOs - because they work hard deserve their millions - not like those chinese slackers who only put in 14 hour day, and then have audacity to demand more money. Also keep bailing out the banks so they can reward their staff with more money.

Just trying to sum up the rightwing mindset.

Sounds alot like the leftwing mindset.

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Foxconn is raising the rates of their workers, hundreds of thousands of them, at a prodigious rate, recently 30% in one go.

Foxconn employees assembling Apple's products may be getting more....

'Apple rumored to directly provide raises to Foxconn employees':

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=13409

A new report suggests Apple could address employee issues with its manufacturing partner Foxconn by directly compensating workers with profits from products assembled overseas, including the iPhone and iPad.

According to CBS-owned Chinese news site Zol.com.cn, Apple plans to provide Foxconn employees between 1 percent and 2 percent of the profits from its products.

[...snip...]

The report claims that the first to receive the pay boost will be those who work on the iPad production line. Currently, it said, Apple pays Foxconn about 2.3 percent of the total price of the iPad.

Last week, Foxconn announced it plans to give a 20 percent pay raise to its employees. The revelation came after at least 10 people committed suicide at the Chinese plant this year alone.

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Because of bad publicity due to a spate of suicides. Apple has demanded they make this move lest their image be further tarnished.

Many large electronics companies use Foxconn. It will be interesting to see if Nokia, Sony, Dell and HP follow Apple's lead on pay.

The suicide rate amongst Foxconn workers is reported to be less than for their customers in the U.S....

'Steve Jobs talks lost prototype iPhone, Adobe Flash at All Things D':

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/06/01/steve_jobs_talks_lost_prototype_iphone_adobe_flash_at_all_things_d.html

The suicide rate at the Foxconn plant was 13 out of 400,000 employees in the first half of the year, less than the U.S. rate of 11 per 100,000. "We had this in my hometown of Palo Alto," Jobs said, "copy cat suicides. We're over there trying to understand this. It's a difficult situation."

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Many large electronics companies use Foxconn. It will be interesting to see if Nokia, Sony, Dell and HP follow Apple's lead on pay.

The suicide rate amongst Foxconn workers is reported to be less than for their customers in the U.S....

'Steve Jobs talks lost prototype iPhone, Adobe Flash at All Things D':

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/06/01/steve_jobs_talks_lost_prototype_iphone_adobe_flash_at_all_things_d.html

Not quite! that is 17 sucessful suicides and 46 prevented saved attempted suicides. It is reputed to be even higher as foxconn has covered some of them up rival Huawei also had 20 suicides too, but huawei doesn't count as it is 50% CCP owned.

The attempted suicide attemptees were given prompt treatmentand time off to recover

replace treatment with beating

and time off to recover with the sack.

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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6840103e-6f72-11df-9f43-00144feabdc0.html

Now that they're demanding higher and higher rates of pay, how long before production is moved somewhere cheaper on the basis that 'we can't find the skilled workers we need in China' or 'Chinese workers don't seem very motivated'.

China is developing, and wages are rising, across the economy. This is very good news.

There is a: "broader shift in favour of labour that has accelerated in recent months and is likely to carry on for several years. They reflect powerful demographic changes resulting from the "one child" policy introduced 30 years ago, with the numbers of new potential workers entering the economy dropping quickly. Economists say China has passed or is close to hitting the "Lewis turning point", when the pool of surplus agricultural labour tapers off, sparking big rises in industrial wages."

"Yet wage inflation is a pre-condition for Beijing's main long-term economic goal, boosting consumption and reducing dependence on exports and investment. Raising the incomes of ordinary Chinese is the best way of encouraging them to save less and spend more - and for some observers that is already happening."

"Right now in China we are seeing the opposite of what many people believe in their minds," says Li Daokui, an economist at Tsinghua University and a member of the central bank's monetary policy committee. "Chinese consumers are beginning to consume."

"Booming consumption will, in turn, lead to smaller external surpluses, as China imports more goods from the rest of the world and helps encourage a rebalancing of the global economy. As long as potential spikes in inflation can be controlled without too much cost, China has a lot to gain from higher wages."

It is very good news, and, BTW, it confirms the trend of the past 200 years - a constantly growing numbers of industrialising, developing and then developed countries. It is good news.

Why are you people refusing to see it as it is: very good news ? !

FT Article: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6840103e-6f72-11df-9f43-00144feabdc0.html

A more complete academic source: http://www.ifpri.org/sites/default/files/publications/ifpridp00977.pdf

Ending low pay set to empower consumers and boost economy

By Geoff Dyer in Beijing

Published: June 4 2010 03:00 | Last updated: June 4 2010 03:00

It feels like the end of an era. The spate of strikes and suicides that has rocked China's southern manufacturing belt over the past fortnight could well mark the time that China stopped being a place of limitless cheap labour. And for the economy, that could be a thoroughly good thing.

The manufacturing hub in Guangdong province has been buzzing with two different but related stories - the suicides at Foxconn , the company that makes the Apple iPad and other high-tech devices, and a high-profile strike at a Honda components plant.

Both events have also resulted in eye-catching wage increases - 30 per cent in the case of the Foxconn workers and a 24 per cent offer at the Honda factory (they wanted 50 per cent).

They are part of a pattern of rising wages across the economy. Dai Qinlan, director of the Careers Information Centre in Wenzhou, another export hub on the south-east coast, said wages are up around 20 per cent in most of the region's factories this year. The city of Beijing announced yesterday that its minimum wage is to rise by 20 per cent.

"Companies in China can still get young workers for their factories, but they are going to have to pay significantly more for them," says Arthur Kroeber, managing director of Dragonomics in Beijing.

This is not a new phenomenon - there have been reports of staff shortages in parts of Guangdong for several years and wages were heading higher before the crisis hit the export sector in late 2008. And Chinese wages are still equivalent to around a third of Mexican salaries and a quarter of Brazilian ones.

Instead, the salary rises in Guangdong this week symbolise a broader shift in favour of labour that has accelerated in recent months and is likely to carry on for several years. They reflect powerful demographic changes resulting from the "one child" policy introduced 30 years ago, with the numbers of new potential workers entering the economy dropping quickly. Economists say China has passed or is close to hitting the "Lewis turning point", when the pool of surplus agricultural labour tapers off, sparking big rises in industrial wages.

Cai Fang, a researcher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences who has written widely on the phenomenon, says wages for migrant workers increased by between 2 per cent and 5 per cent in the early part of the past decade, and by around 7 per cent in 2004-07. Yet last year they jumped by 16 per cent.

Wage inflation does bring plenty of macro-economic headaches. China was able to achieve double-digit growth over the past decade with minimal inflation, in part because wages grew more slowly than productivity. But if salaries continue to rise, the normal rate of inflation is likely to be higher - and that is in an economy which some fear is already overheating.

Rising inflation would likely lead to higher interest rates, which could cause a lot of stress among the local governments that borrowed heavily last year to finance infrastructure stimulus projects.

Yet wage inflation is a pre-condition for Beijing's main long-term economic goal, boosting consumption and reducing dependence on exports and investment. Raising the incomes of ordinary Chinese is the best way of encouraging them to save less and spend more - and for some observers that is already happening.

"Right now in China we are seeing the opposite of what many people believe in their minds," says Li Daokui, an economist at Tsinghua University and a member of the central bank's monetary policy committee. "Chinese consumers are beginning to consume."

Booming consumption will, in turn, lead to smaller external surpluses, as China imports more goods from the rest of the world and helps encourage a rebalancing of the global economy. As long as potential spikes in inflation can be controlled without too much cost, China has a lot to gain from higher wages.

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Yep those lazy chinese - they should work harder for less.

Also lets get rid of the minimum wage in the UK, lets raise taxes for the poorest. Cut taxes for the richest - Yeah those people who are poor, are poor because they choose to be poor - everything is within their control - they could be millionaires if they wanted. Lets get rid benefits, health care and free education.

Also lets increase salaries for CEOs - because they work hard deserve their millions - not like those chinese slackers who only put in 14 hour day, and then have audacity to demand more money. Also keep bailing out the banks so they can reward their staff with more money.

Just trying to sum up the rightwing housepricecrash .co.uk mindset.

Corrected for you.....

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Ending low pay set to empower consumers and boost economy

Chinese people Asian people in General are NOT like Westerners, they save enormous amounts of money, even in Japan/ HK with socialised medicine people still save vast amounts of money. Thus the rampant consumerism won't work, they'll just save it for just in case.

There are extra examples, many of the mod con white goods in Europe/US have never caught on in Asia at all. In Korea China, Japan and HK even Taiwan nobody uses dishwashers they are universally thought of as somewhere to store plates, even washing machines haven't caught on as many people hand wash!

So your consumerist utopia type thinking isn't quite as you would expect.

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Chinese people Asian people in General are NOT like Westerners, they save enormous amounts of money, even in Japan/ HK with socialised medicine people still save vast amounts of money. Thus the rampant consumerism won't work, they'll just save it for just in case.

There are extra examples, many of the mod con white goods in Europe/US have never caught on in Asia at all. In Korea China, Japan and HK even Taiwan nobody uses dishwashers they are universally thought of as somewhere to store plates, even washing machines haven't caught on as many people hand wash!

So your consumerist utopia type thinking isn't quite as you would expect.

You're correct in what you say: TOW has an entirely mechanistic view of economics, to him its a logical science of number progressions: in reality economics is a small amount of number crunching affected by a huge amount of extremely variable human behaviour.

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