Minos Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I agree. Political collapse is a possibility and this happens when economic collapse can no longer be prevented which happens when a nation is not too big to fail or if there are alternatives such as a new world order currency. I was never much into conspiracy theories and the NWO but I am having a rethink. Anything else you are having a rethink about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patfig Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Anything else you are having a rethink about? You are awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 "The Euro doesn't work, so lets create an even bigger union - surely that will work!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jareth Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 One world order, one world currency. Makes a lot of sense. I don't like it, but it makes sense given the Sovereign Debt issues and the need to compete with the East. I think I am starting to embrace this as the new reality. It lines up with the direction that history has been taking for some time now. And best of all, until now, no one had seriously thought that the Euro was going to go away and the $ re-emerge as the only viable option. From a historical perspective, we have been heading in this direction since WW1 and the US is best placed to carry it off. Could carbon credits work as a global currency of sorts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellerkat Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Quoting myself: The Eurozone (as distinct from the EU) has a comparable population to the USA - 328 million compared to 309 million The Eurozone has a GDP a bit over half of the USA's Greece has a population less than a third of California's and a GDP of less that one fifth of California's. The Greek bailout is $61 billion, California's debt is $83 billion. OK This is old and based on $1.56/€1 but: The U.S. economy lost the title of "world's biggest" to the euro zone this week as the value of the dollar slumped in currency markets. Taking the gross domestic product of both economies in 2007, the combined GDP of the 15 countries which use the euro overtook that of the United States when the European currency surged to a record high of more than $1.56 per euro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 To play with the big boys in science now you need to be a mega nation. Many big science projects today go into the multiple billions of dollars in cost to get it off the ground. A small nation cannot really fund a $10 billion project that might turn out a negative. For example for an Austria $10 billion project would cost $1,000 per citizen. But for the whole EU the cost would only be $22 per citizen. so the japs copied breakthroughs from other nations and built them better. is that so hard to do? or is growing potatoes a science that needs a breakthrough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/7797396/Why-a-new-euro-could-be-the-saviour-of-the-European-dream.html Why a 'new euro' could be the saviour of the European dream Once unthinkable, the possible demise of the euro is now very much up for debate. By Robert "Bob" Woolnough Published: 9:00PM BST 02 Jun 2010 The Euro sculpture is seen in front of the European Central Bank in Frankfurt, central Germany Photo: AP Well, among market participants – the politicians will not countenance it, despite the tectonic shifts in the eurozone and the profound strains on the single currency. ..../ First, the authorities would have to create new national currencies as a means of exchange. To solve existing euro contracts issues, you would need a one-for-one successor to the euro, so let's call it the "neuro". We've been here before: the ECU was turned into the euro in the same way. This successor currency would then be legal tender in all European countries. But the big question is who would stand behind this supranational currency? The US and the $. We all know it makes sense. The alternative would be, as the artcile points out, catastrophe for the world's economy. There is no choice as the dream of political and economic cohesion for the EZ was just that, a dream. I can feel a song coming on: Cue Elvis' favourite singer, Bob Goulet and the theme from the Bloke from La Mancha....................... I think it could happen just as I thought the entire banking system was insolvent and would collapse. The unthinkable is happening all the time. You don't need a replacement euro. If the contract was made under German law, the successor currency would be a Mark of some description. If it is French law, then it would be a Frank, Italian law - a Lira, Greek law - a Drachma and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Given that every major central bank is now following the same policies of low interest rates and debt monetisation, does it really matter which one happens to be in charge in any particular area? There's no secret ingredient in freshly printed dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) so the japs copied breakthroughs from other nations and built them better. is that so hard to do? or is growing potatoes a science that needs a breakthrough? Well yeah....I mean no. And all this from a man (RB) who drives a used Mazda 6. Edited June 3, 2010 by council dweller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Well yeah....I mean no. And all this from a man (RB) who drives a used Mazda 6. My Toyota is made in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/7797396/Why-a-new-euro-could-be-the-saviour-of-the-European-dream.html Why a 'new euro' could be the saviour of the European dream Once unthinkable, the possible demise of the euro is now very much up for debate. By Robert "Bob" Woolnough Published: 9:00PM BST 02 Jun 2010 The Euro sculpture is seen in front of the European Central Bank in Frankfurt, central Germany Photo: AP Well, among market participants – the politicians will not countenance it, despite the tectonic shifts in the eurozone and the profound strains on the single currency. ..../ First, the authorities would have to create new national currencies as a means of exchange. To solve existing euro contracts issues, you would need a one-for-one successor to the euro, so let's call it the "neuro". We've been here before: the ECU was turned into the euro in the same way. This successor currency would then be legal tender in all European countries. But the big question is who would stand behind this supranational currency? The US and the $. We all know it makes sense. The alternative would be, as the artcile points out, catastrophe for the world's economy. There is no choice as the dream of political and economic cohesion for the EZ was just that, a dream. I can feel a song coming on: Cue Elvis' favourite singer, Bob Goulet and the theme from the Bloke from La Mancha....................... I think it could happen just as I thought the entire banking system was insolvent and would collapse. The unthinkable is happening all the time. I liked the bit in the article about switching the new currency one for one with the old one. Until I reached that point, I thought that the writer was serious, utterly misguided of course, but serious. After reading that I realised it was a complete wind up. How did the Telegraph let this troll in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry in Germany Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 This may be the most ridiculous thread in the history of the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azogar Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 the euro is doomed i tell ya oops - what's that? the banksters are going the other way, well whoddathunkit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/7797396/Why-a-new-euro-could-be-the-saviour-of-the-European-dream.html Why a 'new euro' could be the saviour of the European dream Once unthinkable, the possible demise of the euro is now very much up for debate. By Robert "Bob" Woolnough Published: 9:00PM BST 02 Jun 2010 The Euro sculpture is seen in front of the European Central Bank in Frankfurt, central Germany Photo: AP Well, among market participants – the politicians will not countenance it, despite the tectonic shifts in the eurozone and the profound strains on the single currency. ..../ First, the authorities would have to create new national currencies as a means of exchange. To solve existing euro contracts issues, you would need a one-for-one successor to the euro, so let's call it the "neuro". We've been here before: the ECU was turned into the euro in the same way. This successor currency would then be legal tender in all European countries. But the big question is who would stand behind this supranational currency? The US and the $. We all know it makes sense. The alternative would be, as the artcile points out, catastrophe for the world's economy. There is no choice as the dream of political and economic cohesion for the EZ was just that, a dream. I can feel a song coming on: Cue Elvis' favourite singer, Bob Goulet and the theme from the Bloke from La Mancha....................... I think it could happen just as I thought the entire banking system was insolvent and would collapse. The unthinkable is happening all the time. Fantasy island stuff The EURO has failed because it is essentailly a supra national system of fixed exchange rates pinned to the former Deutchemark that has been blown apart by the economic diffrernces within Europe. Why on earth would another supranational peg tied to the dollar be any more effective. The only thing in its favour would be the greater wilingness of the Fed to inflate compared to the ECB. The reality is that the dollar has always been the international reserve currency and remains the predominant one. What is more likely is that the world will go back to the situation where European countries conduct most of their activites in their local currency and just use the dollar as a trading currency, as is still done in markets such as oil. Edited June 3, 2010 by realcrookswearsuits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcpricewatcher Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 One world order, one world currency. Makes a lot of sense. I don't like it, but it makes sense given the Sovereign Debt issues and the need to compete with the East. I think I am starting to embrace this as the new reality. It lines up with the direction that history has been taking for some time now. And best of all, until now, no one had seriously thought that the Euro was going to go away and the $ re-emerge as the only viable option. From a historical perspective, we have been heading in this direction since WW1 and the US is best placed to carry it off. One world currency... Didn't that use to be gold? Oh hang on, it won't work, you can't print gold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwatkins Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I was a long term CA resident and went through a couple of boom and bust cycles. The issue for CA was house prices. They soared and broke the economy and they do so every time. However, infrastructure is largely unaffected and as soon as house prices collapse the economy fires up again as it is now starting to do. Manufacturing, fruit and veg, biotech and IT are still viable and they will recover in a few years. BTW the second led of the HPC is about to hit CA again. The price they pay for HPI almost as bad as ours was. Agreed on that. I honestly feel it's impossible to really guage this country (the US) unless you live here on a permanent basis. It is a different mindset and Ca will recover given a few years. People are realists on a state level-it's Washington that's out of control. As an example-here in RI teachers, firemen, and police have all accepted reductions in manpower, a 10% haircut and no pay rises for TWO YEARS. Hello???? Can anybody tell me if this would have a cat in hells chance in the UK???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwatkins Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 You don't need a replacement euro. If the contract was made under German law, the successor currency would be a Mark of some description. If it is French law, then it would be a Frank, Italian law - a Lira, Greek law - a Drachma and so on. Lampard? Then it would be a fat Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 RB DOLLAR LOVE ! I've been ramping all night, my mouse's wet on the wheel There's a voice in my head, saying short the euro....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6ujQM_lqE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) I don't see why so many people predict the Euro will collapse while the dollar is safe. Greece might have gone bankrupt, but hasn't California done the same, and it has a bigger population and economy than Greece? The US dollar is backed by a Federal budget which is 30%+ of GNP even in normal times. California would not be allowed to go bust independently of the US since it would be bailed out by the Fed. (just as New York was not so many years ago). The EU budget may be bloated and wasteful, but it is only just over 1% of aggregate EU GNP. That's at least an order of magnitude less than would be needed to sustain a single currency amongst such disparate economies. There is no political will amongst EU voters or politicians to mandate the huge fiscal transfers that would be required to keep the euro together. Edit: Added "allowed to"and "would be". Spelling. Edited June 4, 2010 by CrashConnoisseur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) The US dollar is backed by a Federal budget which is 30%+ of GNP even in normal times. California would not be allowed to go bust independently of the US since it would be bailed out by the Fed. (just as New York was not so many years ago). The EU budget may be bloated and wasteful, but it is only just over 1% of aggregate EU GNP. That's at least an order of magnitude less than would be needed to sustain a single currency amongst such disparate economies. Their is no political will amongst EU voters or politicians to mandate the huge fiscal transfers that would be required to keep the euro together. Edit: Added "allowed to"and "would be". Yes even when California started the deflationary death spiral, they could rely on social security payments coming to their old people, they could rely on medicare payments, on food stamps for the people made unemployed, on military and other government spending in their state. Imo the next step for Europe is to have an EU wide pension. It would not be very generous, so individual states could top it up if they chose. Another factor among many.. Californians without jobs could also leave for other states where their professional certifications are still valid, and where they speak the same language. If Europe was really serious about integration all schools in the EU should be a common language. And not just a second language class. Edited June 3, 2010 by aa3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishfinger Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I was a long term CA resident and went through a couple of boom and bust cycles. The issue for CA was house prices. They soared and broke the economy and they do so every time. However, infrastructure is largely unaffected and as soon as house prices collapse the economy fires up again as it is now starting to do. Manufacturing, fruit and veg, biotech and IT are still viable and they will recover in a few years. BTW the second led of the HPC is about to hit CA again. The price they pay for HPI almost as bad as ours was. ...And when is the next earthquake due? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 So the Greeks could exchange one over leveraged indebted currency for a whole new leveraged indebted currency. Win win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olebrum Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 actually we should call the new currency the NATO. So like NATO the whole thing would be run to do what the USA wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 So like NATO the whole thing would be run to do what the USA wants. I didn't say it would be a political project,just a common currency. the reason that europe will fail is that it wants to centralise EVERYTHING.No scope for differences of opinion. just look at the response to the lisbon treatyWhen france,ireland and voted no....the outcome was,"well you'd better keep voting until you get the right answer". Even in the US,if states deem federal laws to be outside the remit,they can quite legally individually veto them. Of course there are things that need to be done by a coordinated federal body..like defence....but imposition of pointless ninnying like daily limits on vitamin products will be given quite short shrift over the pond...individual states will just say "sod off........none of your damn business" There certainly are attempt by the big boys to federalise everything(hence the increase in potential "state of emergency type events) ,but the state legislators are very much more aware of their obligations towards the citizenry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realistbear Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 So the Greeks could exchange one over leveraged indebted currency for a whole new leveraged indebted currency. Win win. When there is only one viable currency there is not a lot of choice. That is the thinking behind the NW0. Control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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