Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

interestrateripoff

Teenagers' Deaths 'not Caused By Mephedrone'

Recommended Posts

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10184803.stm

Toxicology tests have shown that two teenagers whose deaths were linked to mephedrone had not taken the drug.

The deaths of Louis Wainwright, 18, and Nicholas Smith, 19, in March 2010 sparked concern about the synthetic stimulant, which was then legal.

The Labour government banned the "legal high" in April, making it a Class B drug.

Former chief drugs adviser Prof David Nutt said the test results undermined the reasons behind the ban.

But Professor Les Iverson, the current chairman of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD), said the decision to recommend a ban on mephedrone was based on "thorough research".

Categorisation row

It is thought further tests are being conducted to try to establish what, if any, substances the pair had taken.

Mephedrone - also known as Meow, Bubbles and M-CAT - is derived from cathinone, a compound found in a plant called Khat.

Humberside Police, which carried out the initial investigation into the teenagers' deaths, said in March it had "information to suggest these deaths are linked to M-CAT".

At the time, police believed the pair, both from Scunthorpe, had been drinking and had also taken methadone - a similar-sounding but completely different drug to mephedrone.

On Friday, a spokeswoman said the force could not confirm or deny the results of the toxicology tests.

She said: "The pathology report, which includes toxicology findings, is prepared on behalf of the coroner and is not yet complete.

"The findings of the report, once completed, will be forwarded to the coroner and may be discussed at any inquest and will not be disclosed without the authority of HM Coroner."

Excellent use of the media to get something banned, I don't see this making headline news across the Daily Wail.

Teenagers die of legal drug is big news, however teenagers actually died of something else and surprise surprise it's not on the agenda and it hardly gets mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those two weren't, but it is implicated in others.

The far bigger problem is of course alcohol and it appears from some postings on here last night that it's not just teenagers. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My GOD!

PID got up this morning only to find that someone had been drunk - spouting their vile drunken sputum - all over their internet forum.

It's disgusting!

I'm off to the Daily Mail, much more wholesome.

ohhh, titillation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10184803.stm

Excellent use of the media to get something banned, I don't see this making headline news across the Daily Wail.

Teenagers die of legal drug is big news, however teenagers actually died of something else and surprise surprise it's not on the agenda and it hardly gets mentioned.

I'd love to see a ban such as this challenged under EU freedom of movemernt of goods rules. For something to be banned on safety grounds it has to be done on firm and provable scientific evidence. It appears that that is entirely absent here!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazingly enough this story has not made the daily mail. Which is quite something given that if you search the daily mail web site for keyword mephedrone you get 37 stories. I think that says it all really.

Maybe, just maybe, this could be the catalyst for a change in the governments addiction to criminalising young people who get high. Not through any kind of common sense approach mind, but it could be only a matter of time before the legality of the advice provided to the government is called into question in a criminal trial. You cant just ban shit as harmful, without it actually being proved as harmful, which is exactly what has happened here.

David Nutt's comments today are incredibly prescient, at a time when the government was rushing around looking for 'tough-on-anything' headlines, they could have been letting the drugs advisory council provide the kind of advice that would have saved the life of both the boys in the wail story. Alcohol lowers heart rate, opiate and opiate substitutes lower heart rate, so don't ******ing drink if you are stupid enough to be taking methadone socially (who actually does that anyway???)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought the journo was good. Nutt needs to get rid of the beer belly!

I thought he was terrible. He couldn't seem to grasp the idea that horse riding is more dangerous than taking ecstasy based on statistics and facts.

He was afraid of the message it would send out. (The Truth)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are pushing the producers to legal alternatives but the risk tends to go up as they stray further away from

known areas of research. the NRG 1, 2 (and 3 coming in June) as well as 5-IAI are all legal because they're not

the cannabis style family like JWH-018 which are all illegal now.

Eventually there will be a new drug with cannabis like effects but it's all speed, MDMA for the legal side and those are

getting out of hand, moving further away from the drugs they were imitating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought he was terrible. He couldn't seem to grasp the idea that horse riding is more dangerous than taking ecstasy based on statistics and facts.

He was afraid of the message it would send out. (The Truth)

Not much of an interview.

The journo is there to push the subject, but he didn't do it consistently. I guess the subject is too big to manage in 23 mins.

Nutt is interesting, but he chuckles too much and lacks conviction. Overall, he presents a confusing case: insisting on the truth, yet all for government intervention. I see his point about the lies over which drug abuses really cause harm, but I'd like to know why he thinks his government appointed position was justified.

Get him to talk to Charlie Rose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drug arguments are down to prejudice, that's why the government's scientific advisors keep walking out because they realise they're just there to reinforce the ruling party's preconceptions. Alcohol is more harmful than cannabis, tobacco is more likely to kill you than ecstasy. Facts.

However I am also prejudiced. My personal experience of friends who got into regular, rather than occasional party, drug-taking is that they withdraw into that drug. It insiduously becomes the most important thing in their lives. They become insular and dull and people start avoiding them.

So I'm happy to see them banned on whatever flimsy pretext.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest X-QUORK

So I'm happy to see them banned on whatever flimsy pretext.

Dangerously socialist thinking there Frank, imposing your beliefs on others regardless. Tut tut old boy. I think alcohol should be banned for everyone now that I don't drink it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dangerously socialist thinking there Frank, imposing your beliefs on others regardless. Tut tut old boy. I think alcohol should be banned for everyone now that I don't drink it.

By most measures alcohol should be banned XQ, can't see it happening though. I'm impressed that you're still off it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drug arguments are down to prejudice, that's why the government's scientific advisors keep walking out because they realise they're just there to reinforce the ruling party's preconceptions. Alcohol is more harmful than cannabis, tobacco is more likely to kill you than ecstasy. Facts.

However I am also prejudiced. My personal experience of friends who got into regular, rather than occasional party, drug-taking is that they withdraw into that drug. It insiduously becomes the most important thing in their lives. They become insular and dull and people start avoiding them.

So I'm happy to see them banned on whatever flimsy pretext.

But, if these people are adults then why should the state seek to stop them doing just that? It's their lives - let them get on with it.

Face it, the people who get into that type of lifestyle are probably people with addictive personalities anyway so will end up abusing whatever substance they come into contact with. If it wasn't weed, it'd be tobacco, if it wasn't cocaine it would be alcohol, if it wasn't ecstracy, it would be fatty foods, and so on and so forth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real problem in the UK is alcohol. But since so many people drink it all the side effects are considered normal.

I think it's hilarious that guys will tell me that I'm not a real man cause I don't drink. :D

Yet these are some of things I've heard drinkers pass off as 'normal' stuff that just happens to men

Pissing themselves. Yes I know plenty of guys that got so drunk they pissed themselves in their sleep.

Unable to get an erection when they somehow managed to pull a woman.

Man-boobs and beer-belly. AFAIK alcohol inhibits testosterone and turns you into a woman.

Lack of confidence. Unable to socialise without being at least a little tipsy (this is again due to testosterone being lowered making them less assertive).

Sure the other drugs have side-effects but surely not as bad as these?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real problem in the UK is alcohol. But since so many people drink it all the side effects are considered normal.

I think it's hilarious that guys will tell me that I'm not a real man cause I don't drink. :D

Yet these are some of things I've heard drinkers pass off as 'normal' stuff that just happens to men

Pissing themselves. Yes I know plenty of guys that got so drunk they pissed themselves in their sleep.

Unable to get an erection when they somehow managed to pull a woman.

Man-boobs and beer-belly. AFAIK alcohol inhibits testosterone and turns you into a woman.

Lack of confidence. Unable to socialise without being at least a little tipsy (this is again due to testosterone being lowered making them less assertive).

Sure the other drugs have side-effects but surely not as bad as these?

Inhibition of testosterone is deemed to be a benefit for society by TPTB as it makes men more docile, that's why they also don't like people having a healthy amount of saturated fats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real problem in the UK is alcohol. But since so many people drink it all the side effects are considered normal.

I think it's hilarious that guys will tell me that I'm not a real man cause I don't drink. :D

Yet these are some of things I've heard drinkers pass off as 'normal' stuff that just happens to men

Pissing themselves. Yes I know plenty of guys that got so drunk they pissed themselves in their sleep.

Unable to get an erection when they somehow managed to pull a woman.

Man-boobs and beer-belly. AFAIK alcohol inhibits testosterone and turns you into a woman.

Lack of confidence. Unable to socialise without being at least a little tipsy (this is again due to testosterone being lowered making them less assertive).

Sure the other drugs have side-effects but surely not as bad as these?

Not always the same for all people though. I've never pissed the bed drunk - in fact I often need to get out of bed for a piss when I'm sober but never have to drunk.

I usually have to be very, very drunk not to be able to get it up. So dunk that I'm on the border of unconsciousness anyway. Having a stunning bird who looks sexy everywhere we go (and boy did she last night!) helps in that respect, I suppose.

I'd hardly say that alcohol turns you female. Okay, if you drink sh1t loads you'll probably put weight on but that's hardly unexpected.

The social thing - well, okay, alcohol is a supressant but so what? Honestly, how much fun would a night out be if everyone was drinking tea or fizzy pop? It would be boring as hell.

It's about moderation. If you're drinking from morning till night and spending your life wasted then that's probably not a good thing. There's nothing wrong with drink in the proper place and time though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, how much fun would a night out be if everyone was drinking tea or fizzy pop?

:rolleyes:

The words of an alcoholic.

It is very possible to have fun without booze, what did you do before you started drinking?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real problem in the UK is alcohol. But since so many people drink it all the side effects are considered normal.

I think it's hilarious that guys will tell me that I'm not a real man cause I don't drink. :D

Yet these are some of things I've heard drinkers pass off as 'normal' stuff that just happens to men

Pissing themselves. Yes I know plenty of guys that got so drunk they pissed themselves in their sleep.

Unable to get an erection when they somehow managed to pull a woman.

Man-boobs and beer-belly. AFAIK alcohol inhibits testosterone and turns you into a woman.

Lack of confidence. Unable to socialise without being at least a little tipsy (this is again due to testosterone being lowered making them less assertive).

Sure the other drugs have side-effects but surely not as bad as these?

Maybe if you were a bit less sanctimonious about it... most adults think nothing of someone else not drinking alcohol, perhaps you need better friends or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But, if these people are adults then why should the state seek to stop them doing just that? It's their lives - let them get on with it.

Because most people dabble with it at a time in their lives when they are young and easily influenced by peer pressure?

Face it, the people who get into that type of lifestyle are probably people with addictive personalities anyway so will end up abusing whatever substance they come into contact with. If it wasn't weed, it'd be tobacco, if it wasn't cocaine it would be alcohol, if it wasn't ecstracy, it would be fatty foods, and so on and so forth.

I'm not convinced by the existence of an "addictive personality". There are certain things that I cannot consume in moderation - cigarettes / tobacco, mint chocolate biscuits, purple nasties (pernod and black in a snakebite) - are three I can think of offhand so I don't buy / have one in the first place. But whisky or chocolate, for example, I can happily have one small one and not want any more.

It's more that certain things press your buttons and as you grow more experienced you know what they are likely to be and to avoid them, I have never tried cocaine or heroin because I know enough about them and their effects that I expect I would be hooked at first taste. If they had been freely available at college I would have tried them and that would have been very bad news from a personal point of view and, objectively, from the state's point of view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:rolleyes:

The words of an alcoholic.

It is very possible to have fun without booze, what did you do before you started drinking?

Nope, not an alcoholic. Can you imagine a world without drink though. It would be boring as fvck. Not saying you can't have fun without booze or that you have to involve drink in every activity but it makes lots of things in life more fun and interesting. Fact is that people wouldn't socialise as much without booze to begin with. I mean, we wouldn't have out culture of meeting in pubs if alcohol didn't exist. Why would you run an establishment like a pub if all you served was tea or water or something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, not an alcoholic. Can you imagine a world without drink though. It would be boring as fvck. Not saying you can't have fun without booze or that you have to involve drink in every activity but it makes lots of things in life more fun and interesting. Fact is that people wouldn't socialise as much without booze to begin with. I mean, we wouldn't have out culture of meeting in pubs if alcohol didn't exist. Why would you run an establishment like a pub if all you served was tea or water or something?

Hve you heard of coffee shops? They're quite popular these days.

We regularly have foreign students from Europe coming over, a few are into drinking but most end up feeling isolated as they're not out getting trashed with workmates every Friday (or even midweek!). It's a sorry state of affairs. They socialise fine in other countries without alcohol involved as a main focus, we should be able to do it here - and some do. They are probably the people you just ignore because they make you feel conscious about your over-drinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because most people dabble with it at a time in their lives when they are young and easily influenced by peer pressure?

That's a valid point. Which is why I don't see a problem not allowing under 18's to do it. After that though and you are an adult and have to make your own way in life.

I'm not convinced by the existence of an "addictive personality". There are certain things that I cannot consume in moderation - cigarettes / tobacco, mint chocolate biscuits, purple nasties (pernod and black in a snakebite) - are three I can think of offhand so I don't buy / have one in the first place. But whisky or chocolate, for example, I can happily have one small one and not want any more.

I think that certain people clearly are more addictive in their nature. It's a simple fact that people of certain heritage are unquesionably more adictive personality-wise. Australian Aboriginies, for instance, are notorious alcho's. It's just a fact. However, many people can smoke heavily for decades and give it up at the drop of a hat. An old gent I knew years back used o smoke over 100 a day and gave it up over the course of a weekend in his 70's. He'd smoked since he was 14. Clearly, there are massive differences between individuals.

I like a drink but I genuinely cannot understand how someone can become a hard-core alcoholic. I mean the type who'll start the day with vodka on their cornflakes, carry on drinking all day and finish with 3 bottles of wine for supper. It's utterly alien to me as to how anyone can get that p1ssed one day and then start all over again the next - I physically couldn't do it as I'd be sick and I don't think I could even train my self to do it. People who can do that clearly - to my mind at least - must be wired differently to many other people.

Also, peoples' bodies are different. I'm on a type of anti-inflammatory drug which I was told at the outset to be very carfeful drinking with it as it can shag your liver, especially in combination with alcohol. I stopped drinking completely when I started the meds and didn't drink for weeks after. I have regular blood tests (fortnightly when I started) so had small amounts of alcohol to test wether it would cause a problem. Anyway, the bottom line is that my liver function now is actually better that it was before I started them and I'm back to drinking what I did previously. Another person may have ruined their liver but mine is apparently some sort of wonder liver according to the hospital nurses. Peple are different and I can't see any prolem with the suggestion that some people are more pre-disposed to adiction than others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hve you heard of coffee shops? They're quite popular these days.

We regularly have foreign students from Europe coming over, a few are into drinking but most end up feeling isolated as they're not out getting trashed with workmates every Friday (or even midweek!). It's a sorry state of affairs. They socialise fine in other countries without alcohol involved as a main focus, we should be able to do it here - and some do. They are probably the people you just ignore because they make you feel conscious about your over-drinking.

Nope, not at all. Like I said, alcohol isn't be bee all and end all of social interaction but it has its place. I'm not aware of anywhere in Europe that doesn't have a pretty strong culture involving alcohol. Please point me to somewhere that has no pubs, no alcohol consumption and is full of coffee shops.

The world would be intensely boring without something like alcohol. Can you imagine this country with no alcohol at all? Most people would simply die of boredom!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.