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Useless, Jobless Men – The Social Blight Of Our Age

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Truly excellent article:

Overlooked by society, irrelevant to employers, unwanted by women who can raise families on benefits without their help, the man who has no work or a series of short-term jobs is a problem. Without steady work, he will struggle to acquire a family: unemployed men are less likely to marry or cohabit than employed ones. Without a stable relationship, he is less likely to grow into a good family man and raise good sons. The taxpayer has become the father: one in four mothers is single and more than half live on welfare. A lot of these women describe the real fathers of their children as “useless” or worse. The men have no role.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/camilla_cavendish/article7138520.ece

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Not as much of a blight as female journalists. The real social blight of our age.

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There's one thing missing from this. Cohabit and the benefits office treat you as a unit, so you get less. Live separately and you get two sets of full benefits. So the system creates incentives for mothers to agree to separate from fathers if they are on benefits. People taking up the incentives offered to split up could well lead to exaggerating the problem; yet another reason for humane revision of the benefits system.

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I'm sure they wrote a similar article just a few month ago. tbh I'd broadly agree with what's been written. Sometimes I think the UK is heading the way of the Roman empire. So many parallels. :(

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Strangely no words of condemnation for the mercenary bitches that often use these men to have children, and dispose of them as doing so is financially beneficial.

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Women today feel power, protection,and money is given by the state so men are useless to them.

I havent read the article but can imagine what it says.

Also women have to keep up the pretence that men are useless because otherwise they will give the game away, that their man is actually living with them while these women claim single entitlements.

The men pick up this feeling of impotence from what is being forced upon them by a state that doesnt need so much manual labour as years gone by, and all men cannot be IT specialists, or bankers, or brain surgeons ...

McDonalds doesnt quite cut it for men.....

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Strangely no words of condemnation for the mercenary bitches that often use these men to have children, and dispose of them as doing so is financially beneficial.

Maybe, but there are probably many selfless unemployed men who've done the calculations and worked out that by living apart they will both be better off. Then of course he can quietly move back in and sublet whatever property he gets paid for out of HB. Win-win all round!

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Truly excellent article:

Overlooked by society, irrelevant to employers, unwanted by women who can raise families on benefits without their help, the man who has no work or a series of short-term jobs is a problem. Without steady work, he will struggle to acquire a family: unemployed men are less likely to marry or cohabit than employed ones. Without a stable relationship, he is less likely to grow into a good family man and raise good sons. The taxpayer has become the father: one in four mothers is single and more than half live on welfare. A lot of these women describe the real fathers of their children as "useless" or worse. The men have no role.

http://www.timesonli...icle7138520.ece

Here you are - a day in the life of the scummy Govt (setup) system that splits fathers from the kids even more than divorce!

Look how they can assess you one minute as paying £x's then 'reassess' you (out of the blue) Xmonths later and whack you for extras, including having to pay penalties because they assessed you wrongly in the first place!

This is all part of the vile system put in place, to break family units and our social system down further, whilst playing us, blaming each other instead of their evil 'systems'!

It's done for a "purpose"!

CSA PENALISE GOOD FATHERS!

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a341.asp

CSA - guilty until proven innocent

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a170.asp

Jealous ex-wives use kids as pawns!

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a467.asp

Ex-wife uses CSA money on herself

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a413.asp

Women who 'trick' men into parenthood!

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a462.asp

Could turn into a fun HPC/Mumsnet weekend thread! :ph34r:

Edited by erranta

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this is what wars used to be for.

Now of course wars are fought with thermonuclear missles, unmanned drones and so on.

So we all shall have to think of something else for them to do.

ofc there are many useless men doing useless jobs also, for example CDO managers.

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If working in a full time unskilled job and not claiming benefits bought you more than a life of grinding poverty, more men might feel inclined to do it. Tried living on £10k minus PAYE, NI, council tax, and private sector rent recently?

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as rk said, how about turning the tables... the bankers and milking the 2 for 1 system are the root of the problem.

back to 1 salary perchance... no (less) more problem men.

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this is what wars used to be for.

Now of course wars are fought with thermonuclear missles, unmanned drones and so on.

So we all shall have to think of something else for them to do.

ofc there are many useless men doing useless jobs also, for example CDO managers.

there are lots of useless men working unworthwhiable jobs too.

really, if you sit and think about it, (subjectively) what would change in your company if your whole department went? anything?

apply it to the country?

apply it to the world.

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If working in a full time unskilled job and not claiming benefits bought you more than a life of grinding poverty, more men might feel inclined to do it. Tried living on £10k minus PAYE, NI, council tax, and private sector rent recently?

At least the coalition have said they will try to do something about it.

My part time workers won't up their hours. They're not lazy, quite the contrary - I sometimes have to order them to go home to stop them staying till 8pm when they should be knocking off at 5pm, they are however intelligent enough to work out that they would be working the extra days for pretty much nothing. They're right, the benefits system is wrong.

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It would be worth reading in The Times if it wasn't a retread of an article from The Guardian at the beginning of the year ;) (The Guardian one contains some HPC bait through as well re: house prices and deindustrialisation which might make you think it isn't just about benefits alone...causes vs. symptoms?):

http://www.guardian....age-tory-policy

.

As they point out, in blackspots for male worklessness, like my home town of Middlesbrough, many men are, in a strictly literal economic sense, not worth marrying, so motherhood becomes widely decoupled from marriage or stable partnership. The situation is not likely to improve of its own accord.
Edited by Cogs

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It's simply a brilliant example of the mechanicalness of humanity, regardless of which sex you sympathise with.

Certain socio-political arrangements suit men. Other socio-political arrangements suit women.

Only a fool would believe that whatever socio-political arrangements we are currently experiencing now are due to "choice" or "progress" rather than happenstance.

As Gurdjieff presciently said, man cannot "do", he can only experience what happens.

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It would be worth reading in The Times if it wasn't a retread of an article from The Guardian at the beginning of the year ;) (The Guardian one contains some HPC bait through as well re: house prices and deindustrialisation which might make you think it isn't just about benefits alone...causes vs. symptoms?):

http://www.guardian....age-tory-policy

.

That's a good one too, but it only has a half sentence in the last paragraph on the issue of benefits.

Single mothers on benefits are actually having a very nice time. Forget about the morality, it's the moolah.

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Women today feel power, protection,and money is given by the state so men are useless to them.

I havent read the article but can imagine what it says.

Also women have to keep up the pretence that men are useless because otherwise they will give the game away, that their man is actually living with them while these women claim single entitlements.

The men pick up this feeling of impotence from what is being forced upon them by a state that doesnt need so much manual labour as years gone by, and all men cannot be IT specialists, or bankers, or brain surgeons ...

McDonalds doesnt quite cut it for men.....

Maybe not but ever tried getting a plumber or spark at short notice?

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in fact, lets go further than the bankers and the single mother bashing.

jobful men may be finding it hard to settle down, just as much as the jobless (yes, i know i'm making words up, it's called language, creation and evolution).

what woman wants a man that can't afford his castle? which one would leap to the one that could?

this boom has ruined EVERYTHING, and I for one hold Brown as it's contortionist. Labour have seemingly rolled some 50 odd years of their power into 12.

The consequences, all on here know.

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That's a good one too, but it only has a half sentence in the last paragraph on the issue of benefits.

Single mothers on benefits are actually having a very nice time. Forget about the morality, it's the moolah.

I think benefits are just the result. If you talk to the pramfaces about it they'll tell you the reason they are really getting knocked up because its an option instead of getting a job that either doesn't exist or is very menial. There is this idea they have them to get benefits specifically but I think thats to slightly misunderstand what is going on. Motherhood is a role, its respectable and respected in society more than being a toilet cleaner or whatever. If you've got no prospects but you can do "the most important job in the world" (according to the same right-wingers who'd otherwise criticise you), then it becomes attractive. Economic analysis doesn't really capture that, I think they'll keep doing it however you adjust the benefits regime. They may even have more babies more frequently, the degree of self-sacrifice and difficulty involved will just make it an even purer vocation.

Edited by Cogs

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I think benefits are just the result. If you talk to the pramfaces about it they'll tell you the reason they are really getting knocked up because its an option instead of getting a job that either doesn't exist or is very menial. There is this idea they have them to get benefits specifically but I think thats to slightly misunderstand what is going on. Motherhood is a role, its respectable and respected in society more than being a toilet cleaner or whatever. If you've got no prospects but you can do "the most important job in the world" (according to the same right-wingers who'd otherwise criticise you), then it becomes attractive. Economic analysis doesn't really capture that, I think they'll keep doing it however you adjust the benefits regime.

tbh, I think there's perennial human behaviour, and then there's the spin that we put on it to slot it in with our contemporary ideas.

i.e. women will always have babies, and a certain proportion of men will always go awol. We just construct the explanatory story in retrospect.

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tbh, I think there's perennial human behaviour, and then there's the spin that we put on it to slot it in with our contemporary ideas.

i.e. women will always have babies, and a certain proportion of men will always go awol. We just construct the explanatory story in retrospect.

I agree with you actually, not sure if thats clear in what I wrote. Its not purely economic behaviour; women have always aspired to being mothers in the absence of other options. That some of them have other options for identity is a relatively recent phenomenon anyway. Theres a mistake being made here in confusing which is the new thing. Women in famine-stricken Ethiopia seemed to manage to have children without being promised flats, tvs and 20 benson and hedges.

Edited by Cogs

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this is what wars used to be for.

Now of course wars are fought with thermonuclear missles, unmanned drones and so on.

So we all shall have to think of something else for them to do.

I wouldn't rule war out just yet...

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I agree with you actually, not sure if thats clear in what I wrote. Its not purely economic behaviour; women have always aspired to being mothers in the absence of other options. That some of them have other options for identity is a relatively recent phenomenon anyway. Theres a mistake being made here in confusing which is the new thing. Women in famine-stricken Ethiopia seemed to manage to have children without being promised flats, tvs and 20 benson and hedges.

Sorry Cogs - I was attempting to back you up (may have come across differently)

As an aside, there are huge issues with trying to rationalise the huge sweep of human behaviour within the narrow rationalisations that are allowable in modern Western thought, but that's a topic for another time.

Edited by CokeSnortingTory

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I wouldn't rule war out just yet...

Wouldn't "work" even if we did, modern wars between nation states, even without atomic weapons, would take less time to complete than it would take to email out the conscription notices. I read a projection for the a conflict between N.Korea and S.Korea/USA online from a Washington think-tank. If it started at midnight, it'd 50/50 as to whether it would last until breakfast and would depend mostly on the disposition of the carrier group and whether B2 Spirit Bombers had been relocated in advance or had to be flown from the mainland US.

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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