Heathrow Runway Expansion

[phead]

BA has been trying to get Heathrow enlarged for years, they succeeded at Gatwick where they managed to get a second terminal built, but the cost was a ban on any other runways until at least 2020.

All true, its worth adding that the the "cost" of T5 (or was it T6) was a flight cap placed by the public enquiry, which the government choose to ignore it its UK airport consultation. Combined with other failures meant that the airline expansion plans for the UK were really written by BAA, so the case for better regional airports was never actually examined.

We are still of course left with the Heathrow NOx problem, the UK can only opt out of EU regs for so long. What will we do, pay the fine, or reduce Heathrow to one runway?

[SMAC67]

smac67

From what you say, it sounds like the airline industry is well-aware of the problems of peak oil. Is everyone just resigned to it or is there some hope that some new technology will come and save us all? Or is everyone just burying their heads in the sand and not thinking about it?

Hydrogen is a non-starter due to the weight penalties so the industry is planning to utilise more synthetic and/or bio-fuels. Whilst those in charge might not recognise "peak oil" as a term they do recognise that the age of cheap fuel is drawing to a close. The plan, such that it is, is based on consolidation, and hoping that the "other guy" fails. Choice is about to be reduced and the price of tickets increased although you may get less for your money. It's all about "yield management".

The number of flights will naturally decrease as time passes so emissions will be reduced anyway, but the industry is also relying on the new generation of airliner to boost their "green" credentials.

The choice and cheapness of the last 15 years is something that will never be repeated. Whilst a few niche players may survive you will find that the future is "nationalised" carriers, although like the railways it will be fronted by a private company.

Air France/KLM, BA/Iberia/American, Continental/United, these mega companies are the future for the time being due to the vast capital costs associated with the industry. They all hope that "synergies" and "economies of scale" will offset rising costs (particularly fuel). One of the reasons you are seeing industrial action within the industry is that the second largest cost (employees) is one of the few major costs that can be controlled. You can expect more disruption as employees across the industry get used to lower terms and conditions.

As an aside, one of the things that governments do embark upon as economic crisis unfold is large capital projects. So I would expect one last grandiose gesture to try and reverse the industries decline.

On the plus side, some of the employees will be able to get jobs in the Middle East and Asia and cabin crew/flight crew jobs are seen as menial positions within those societies.

[Guest sillybear2]

I do not live in London but I was proud to read on Wikipedia that the world's second busiest airport in terms of passenger traffic was in the UK. Then I read the capacity of the current runways was between 98% and 99%. So no brainer, a good way to spend I think they said £5 billion building a new runway.

But all these NIMBY's were against it. Which I thougth this time some of the NIMBY's actually might have a point.. why have planes roaring over head your main city all the time? Namely Boris Johnson who proposed a new airport outside of London.

Still wouldn't most other nations just slam in new capacity to meet growing demand.. and be proud to have so much capital in one place?

That's a weird kind of pride, do you think this farmer is also proud that six lanes of the M62 come hurtling past his breakfast table?

Heathrow is just a hub, people land then take off again, what advantage is it to us? BAA isn't even a British company anymore.

Edited May 27, 2010 by sillybear2

[Flightman]

I don't get it why don't they make use of the advanced software and computers in the aircraft?

Simply with computer control you can land the aircraft much closer and keep many many more aircraft in the stack although there are issues about jetwash etc you could have aircraft land at incredibly short intervals.

Back in the 1990s I remember seeing a documentary about La Guardia airport in NY, they had a crossing runway and aircraft would be packed TIGHT so an aircraft would take off rolling down the runway and another aircraft would land crossing the runway the first aircraft was taking off on, they were missing each other by as little as 25 metres. This was in the 1990s using manual air traffic controllers in the tower surely we can just rackem packem and stackem high with aircraft landing at 100 metre intervals. Once the stack gets full you reduce this and implement software upgrades so stack them closer and closer and closer.

Granted it is more complicated than cars, but if all cars moved at the same speed computer controlled motorway capacity could be increased massively.

ROFLMAO,

[pete.hpc]

NIMBYS

How can you be a NIMBY if your house has been compulsory purchased?

[Guest sillybear2]

and by Christmas,BA won't even be a company any more.

Don't worry, the Spanish government and banking sector will sort it out

[SMAC67]

and by Christmas,BA won't even be a company any more.

BA might not exist in it's current format but it's likely that some parts will be sold and others incorporated into Iberia/American, at least the valuable parts will be. Like every other UK company it will become foreign owned with profits being repatriated to the "mother/father-land". Another source of tax income will be removed from the treasury, unemployment will increase and those that are lucky enough to still be employed will be on reduced T's & C's. This will have the added bonus of putting additional pressure on house prices in the South East and the continued viability of UK Plc.

[Guest sillybear2]

At least we'll still be left with proud British companies like BP.

[SMAC67]

I don't gamble as a habit, I only buy shares based on "good" info. The whole market is now rigged so I wouldn't recommend any share dealing without "good" info.

I think that Portsmouth Football Club has been following the lead of the UK Government. They are now attempting to put a CVA in place that will mean paying off the "unsecured" creditors to the tune of 20 pence in the pound. This is the UK Plc's future too, although we will have to sell the remaining assets in the meantime.

The roads, the mint, Parliament itself (we could do a lease back deal), it's all going to be sold. It's a fate that awaits BA too. The question is, will the citizens be evicted from the Island? Just like the Chagosian's.........................

[SMAC67]

One more thought for the day. Stelios Haji-Ioannou (Mr Easyjet) has resigned from the Board of Directors so that he can fight independently against the proposed expansion of the company. He certainly wasn't impressed with outgoing Chief Exec Andy Harrison and has stated as much in the media. Now, why would a company based on rapid expansion want to call a halt to any further aircraft purchases and instead concentrate on dividends for the shareholders? What is interesting about this whole situation is that it demonstrates how difficult it is to actually control any company once it has gone public.

[Guest sillybear2]

begs the question if he can see it coming why doesn't he sell up?

It's an ego thang, he did sell up, it's a public company and now he's in a huff because he's not in control anymore.

[CokeSnortingTory]

I don't gamble as a habit, I only buy shares based on "good" info. The whole market is now rigged so I wouldn't recommend any share dealing without "good" info.

I think that Portsmouth Football Club has been following the lead of the UK Government. They are now attempting to put a CVA in place that will mean paying off the "unsecured" creditors to the tune of 20 pence in the pound. This is the UK Plc's future too, although we will have to sell the remaining assets in the meantime.

The roads, the mint, Parliament itself (we could do a lease back deal), it's all going to be sold. It's a fate that awaits BA too. The question is, will the citizens be evicted from the Island? Just like the Chagosian's.........................

They'll only be in foreign ownership for a short while, until the foreigners themselves go bust (hello Ferrovial). They'll find out that holding decrepit UK assets is a liability for them just a bit too late.

After that they'll be owned by whatever quasi-dictatorial entity replaces the neoliberal ruling elite.

[Peter Hun]

NIMBYS

How can you be a NIMBY if your house has been compulsory purchased?

Or if you live 10-20miles away?

[stormymonday_2011]

They'll only be in foreign ownership for a short while, until the foreigners themselves go bust (hello Ferrovial). They'll find out that holding decrepit UK assets is a liability for them just a bit too late.

After that they'll be owned by whatever quasi-dictatorial entity replaces the neoliberal ruling elite.

+1

Most of the foreigners buying British assets over recent years such as Ferrovial have paid for them with borrowed money.

The very same credit that is now in short supply

Edited May 27, 2010 by realcrookswearsuits

[Flightman]

Or if you live 10-20miles away?

Then you don't have a problem.