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The Masked Tulip

Liberals Having Second Thoughts About Cgt

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According to the BBC News 24 the Libs are coming round to the Tories' thinking on CGT - oh well, so much for a Lib backbone!?

Don't forget, a lot of MPs got on the Brown Gravy train and bought 2nd and 3rd homes.

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I'm not quite sure why everyone thinks the CGT rules proposed by the Libdems were so good. Second home owners were always least likely to pay, as they can nominate a home to be their main home and then not pay CGT on it. The proposed CGT changes, in particular reducing the annual allowance of 10k to 2k, would hit people who are in company share schemes far more. Also, their proposed new system did not appear to offer any indexation relief, so you could end up paying tax on gains which are not real, but just keeping up with inflation. The previous system of indexation and personal gains taxed at income tax levels and business gains at a much lower level was probably better, as it would still encourage business investment, which is what this country needs.

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According to the BBC News 24 the Libs are coming round to the Tories' thinking on CGT - oh well, so much for a Lib backbone!?

S'pose they've got to replenish those election campaign coffers somehow. Holding the BTLers to ransom for a while at least seems to have done the trick, not that I'm suggesting that money has passed hands under the table, of course. No, that would never happen now, would it?

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I'm not quite sure why everyone thinks the CGT rules proposed by the Libdems were so good. Second home owners were always least likely to pay, as they can nominate a home to be their main home and then not pay CGT on it. The proposed CGT changes, in particular reducing the annual allowance of 10k to 2k, would hit people who are in company share schemes far more. Also, their proposed new system did not appear to offer any indexation relief, so you could end up paying tax on gains which are not real, but just keeping up with inflation. The previous system of indexation and personal gains taxed at income tax levels and business gains at a much lower level was probably better, as it would still encourage business investment, which is what this country needs.

I don't think the proposal is amazing; but I registered from it an important principle shift from the conservatives best summed up by Cameron's comment that (say) second home ownership wasn't exactly the best kind of investment for the economy. With this in mind - - above, you seem to fudge that important and valid distinction between an investment that aids production and say a real estate speculation that hampers it, and replace it with an irrelevant distinction between a 'business’ investment' and a personal one

Edited by Stars

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According to the BBC News 24 the Libs are coming round to the Tories' thinking on CGT - oh well, so much for a Lib backbone!?

According to the BBC, house prices went up 18% in the last 12 months. So we all know where the BBC's leanings lie.

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I don't think the proposal is amazing; but I registered from it an important principle shift from the conservatives best summed up by Cameron's comment that (say) second home ownership wasn't exactly the best kind of investment for the economy. With this in mind - - above, you seem to fudge that important and valid distinction between an investment that aids production and say a real estate speculation that hampers it, and replace it with an irrelevant distinction between a 'business’ investment' and a personal one

That is the distinction that HMRC use. BTLs are all taxed as personal assets. Investments related to businesses are "business" assets. Take it up with HMRC if you feel the names for the categories should be different. It is however fairly clear to me.

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That is the distinction that HMRC use. BTLs are all taxed as personal assets. Investments related to businesses are "business" assets. Take it up with HMRC if you feel the names for the categories should be different. It is however fairly clear to me.

That isn't actually the distinction that HMRC use. BTLs are not "all taxed as personal assets." BTL counts as a business for tax purposes. The word the tax legislation focuses on is "trade" and BTL does not count as a trade.

What do they mean by this distinction between business and personal assets? I have no idea. I suspect they don't either.

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With no taper relief, this amounts to a tax on inflation.

When a Big Mac hits £10,000 and everything you own is worth 1000's of British Pesos more than you paid, you'll have realised capital gains all over the place and you'll be taxed at 40%. Great, huh?

Money managers go for the gold in market rout - and beyond

25 May 2010 - 23:20

*BlackRock, Pimco keep gold as part of asset allocation

*Gold prices, up over 9 pct this year, hit $1,248.95 peak

*Einhorn: "Lot of inflation" coming, cites poor policies

By Jennifer Ablan and David Gaffen

NEW YORK, May 25 (Reuters) - Gold is one of the more mysterious assets in the financial markets. It's volatile at times to the point of inducing vertigo and fans of the precious metal assert, somewhat contradictorily, its prowess as a hedge against both inflation and deflation.

It's also been one of the best investments of the last several years, outlasting the equity bull market and performing well when so many assets have succumbed to big declines.

That's why it's become a key component among the strategies of the world's largest money managers even as it streaks to never before seen heights of roughly $1,250 an ounce hit last week.

"The outlook for gold is very, very strong," Evy Hambro, co-chief investment officer of BlackRock's natural resources equity team, said in a recent telephone interview from London.

BlackRock's assets under management totaled $3.36 trillion, as of March 31.

"Gold is certainly nowhere near as volatile as the moves we've seen in currencies," Hambro added. "Look at the euro!"

Edited by chris c-t

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With no taper relief, this amounts to a tax on inflation.

A taxation on an unfortunate and terribly distressing kind of inflation that leaves you with more money than you had before. Unlike taxation on wages which simply takes money off you

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Both Times and Telegraph are reporting the CGT raising plan has been watered down in a policy document published today. Quote is from The Times

scope for George Osborne to keep rises in capital gains tax to a minimum. The Lib Dem policy — to increase CGT from 18 per cent to 40 per cent for top earners, in line with income tax rates — was trimmed in coalition talks. Last week the Government said rates would be “similar or close to” income tax rates. The Queen’s Speech documents water that down, saying that CGT will be taxed at rates “closer” to income tax;

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I find it odd that the government is predicting a steady flow 'capital' gains in which they can tax.

Who's making all this profit? Where's the money going to come from?

Folk will, in all likelihood, just not liquidate any assets and try to hold out for another government.

Just one of many tax rises and new taxes on the way I suppose.

Man's gotta eat.

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A taxation on an unfortunate and terribly distressing kind of inflation that leaves you with more money "printed fiat" than you had before. Unlike taxation on wages which simply takes money off you

corrected... if you think of true money as holding it's purchasing power, government paper cannot really be considered ideal money.

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corrected... if you think of true money as holding it's purchasing power, government paper cannot really be considered ideal money.

Which should be ok as you are only taxed in the same worthless government paper

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I find it odd that the government is predicting a steady flow 'capital' gains in which they can tax.

Who's making all this profit? Where's the money going to come from?

Folk will, in all likelihood, just not liquidate any assets and try to hold out for another government.

Just one of many tax rises and new taxes on the way I suppose.

Man's gotta eat.

Given the debt and commercial, financial situation of the uk, do you think it is likely that any government in the next decade is likely to crank up taxes on working, producing and employing people so they can reduce the taxes on the profits for collecting real estate?

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Guest sillybear2

According to the BBC News 24 the Libs are coming round to the Tories' thinking on CGT - oh well, so much for a Lib backbone!?

They've probably fallen for the old "you've got to let the rich cheat or they'll leave" ruse.

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I'm not quite sure why everyone thinks the CGT rules proposed by the Libdems were so good. Second home owners were always least likely to pay, as they can nominate a home to be their main home and then not pay CGT on it. The proposed CGT changes, in particular reducing the annual allowance of 10k to 2k, would hit people who are in company share schemes far more. Also, their proposed new system did not appear to offer any indexation relief, so you could end up paying tax on gains which are not real, but just keeping up with inflation. The previous system of indexation and personal gains taxed at income tax levels and business gains at a much lower level was probably better, as it would still encourage business investment, which is what this country needs.

Like savings in the bank? interest paid at less than inflation then the cheek to tax it. How about indexing it to keep in line with property speculation, what would the banks balance sheets look like without all the savings. Im tempted to withdraw everything and buy anything now just to keep something in the longrun.

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We just have to wait....

http://www.moneywise.co.uk/grow-money/investing/article/2010/05/25/cgt-hikes-should-you-act-now

While some people have suggested the new rates will be implemented straight after the emergency Budget on 22 June, the likelihood is they will come into effect from April 2011.

This is because introducing new rates for CGT part way through the tax year would be tricky from a revenue perspective, so the most practical solution would be to bring them in from the start of the new tax year.

The problem with this is that the majority of revenue would not be collected until January 2013, says Leney, because there is a time lag between filling in tax returns and the deadline for paying the tax. This means the move will not achieve much in terms of cutting the deficit in the short-term.

and we need the money so....

Leney says another possibility would be for the government to change the way the tax is calculated. One way of doing this would be to double the amount of taxable income expressed on an individual’s tax return and continue to tax it at 18%. This would achieve the same as taxing it at 36% and could be used as a temporary measure until HM Revenue & Customs can implement a long-term change to the system.

That fits in well with.

scope for George Osborne to keep rises in capital gains tax to a minimum. The Lib Dem policy — to increase CGT from 18 per cent to 40 per cent for top earners, in line with income tax rates — was trimmed in coalition talks. Last week the Government said rates would be “similar or close to” income tax rates. The Queen’s Speech documents water that down, saying that CGT will be taxed at rates “closer” to income tax;

Time will tell, and I can't wait. :D

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I find it odd that the government is predicting a steady flow 'capital' gains in which they can tax.

Who's making all this profit? Where's the money going to come from?

Folk will, in all likelihood, just not liquidate any assets and try to hold out for another government.

Just one of many tax rises and new taxes on the way I suppose.

Man's gotta eat.

I did wonder that myself. BTL portfolios have already spent all or most of capital gains on re-investment in new property via equity withdrawal. They're trying to tax money that has already disappeared elsewhere.

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I did wonder that myself. BTL portfolios have already spent all or most of capital gains on re-investment in new property via equity withdrawal. They're trying to tax money that has already disappeared elsewhere.

Looks like good news to me?

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  • 140 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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