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Anyone see it today ? Big visual of the UK's £890Billion or so debt. One wee box for each billion. 6 of the wee boxes were coloured in red at the bottom right. Talked about it on BBC this morning. Headline was along the lines of:

"This is only how much we reduced the debt with the yesterday's cuts" - or something similar.

Now have I missed something or do the £6 billion cuts not relate to the deficit and not the debt ? The debt is going to increase for at least the next 3 years until the deficit turns into a surplus. Only at that point can the actual debt be re-paid.

So do the Independent not know this ?! Or am I just being dumb.

Either way please let me know !!

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Anyone see it today ? Big visual of the UK's £890Billion or so debt. One wee box for each billion. 6 of the wee boxes were coloured in red at the bottom right. Talked about it on BBC this morning. Headline was along the lines of:

"This is only how much we reduced the debt with the yesterday's cuts" - or something similar.

Now have I missed something or do the £6 billion cuts not relate to the deficit and not the debt ? The debt is going to increase for at least the next 3 years until the deficit turns into a surplus. Only at that point can the actual debt be re-paid.

So do the Independent not know this ?! Or am I just being dumb.

Either way please let me know !!

Nice avatar, sorry, you were saying something?

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Nice avatar, sorry, you were saying something?

Yes and someone else started an identical thread at the very same time !! Now that is spooky.

Anyway - having looked at it I am sure they have got it totally wrong. Do they not have economists/finance editors etc.. at the paper to check this stuff ?

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Anyone see it today ? Big visual of the UK's £890Billion or so debt. One wee box for each billion. 6 of the wee boxes were coloured in red at the bottom right. Talked about it on BBC this morning. Headline was along the lines of:

"This is only how much we reduced the debt with the yesterday's cuts" - or something similar.

Now have I missed something or do the £6 billion cuts not relate to the deficit and not the debt ? The debt is going to increase for at least the next 3 years until the deficit turns into a surplus. Only at that point can the actual debt be re-paid.

So do the Independent not know this ?! Or am I just being dumb.

Either way please let me know !!

YOU IS BEIN' REAL CLEVER! OF COURSE THE 6 BILLION A YEAR, IS A CUT OF THE ANNUAL STRUCTURAL DEFICIT OF ABOUT £163BN. So still a drop in the ocean. But it will also reduce by 6 billion the amount added to the national debt mountain in a full year too. It is a muddle of two things but they are related and at least people can see just how huge a task it is to have any impact atall on this burgeoning national debt. A cut of $6BN will bearly dent it and in no way stop it increasing towards armageddon. We need to cut about £100bn or more in annual spending to get it under control. Nasty!!

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Haven't seen this posted today.

25-may-independent-2010.JPG

And in 12 days time, that £6bn will be offset by what we're borrowing already anyway.

This is a really impact- full picture, I'm dismayed how little the mainstream media dont or wont tell the people how much Labour have destroyed our economy imo its beyond real repair

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Anyone see it today ? Big visual of the UK's £890Billion or so debt. One wee box for each billion. 6 of the wee boxes were coloured in red at the bottom right. Talked about it on BBC this morning. Headline was along the lines of:

"This is only how much we reduced the debt with the yesterday's cuts" - or something similar.

Now have I missed something or do the £6 billion cuts not relate to the deficit and not the debt ? The debt is going to increase for at least the next 3 years until the deficit turns into a surplus. Only at that point can the actual debt be re-paid.

So do the Independent not know this ?! Or am I just being dumb.

Either way please let me know !!

Bloody hell, great minds and all that. You got in there 3 minutes before me. In answer, it was in relation to the debt, rather than the defecit. See my thread.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=143734

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Haven't seen this posted today.

25-may-independent-2010.JPG

And in 12 days time, that £6bn will be offset by what we're borrowing already anyway.

Forgive me If i'm wrong on this, but wouldn't that make more sense if it was a deficit mountain of £163bn with a £6bn reduction

rather than a debt mountain of £893bn with a £6bn reduction. What about the years deficit of £157bn (163 - 6) which will get plopped on top?

We're really ******ed aren't we?

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Haven't seen this posted today.

25-may-independent-2010.JPG

And in 12 days time, that £6bn will be offset by what we're borrowing already anyway.

Not mentioning the £15bn cheque we just wrote to help Greece. Net balance: - £9bn... Ooops.

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Not mentioning the £15bn cheque we just wrote to help Greece. Net balance: - £9bn... Ooops.

Ah yes but you forget upwardly revised GDP figures for last Q. :lol:

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YOU IS BEIN' REAL CLEVER! OF COURSE THE 6 BILLION A YEAR, IS A CUT OF THE ANNUAL STRUCTURAL DEFICIT OF ABOUT £163BN. So still a drop in the ocean. But it will also reduce by 6 billion the amount added to the national debt mountain in a full year too. It is a muddle of two things but they are related and at least people can see just how huge a task it is to have any impact atall on this burgeoning national debt. A cut of $6BN will bearly dent it and in no way stop it increasing towards armageddon. We need to cut about £100bn or more in annual spending to get it under control. Nasty!!

I see. I suppose they just chose the bigger number because it looked worse. Not like a newspaper to do something like that !!

Actually I have just read their headline again - they state this is how much the debt mountain was 'REDUCED' by yesterday. That is wrong IMO. As you say - the potential increase in the debt mountain was reduced. Not the debt mountain itself. Misleading headline to say the least.

Anyway good to see the big scary numbers are getting out there for Joe Public to see. About time.

Bomberbrown - Great minds indeed :)

Edited by ccc

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Anyone see it today ? Big visual of the UK's £890Billion or so debt. One wee box for each billion. 6 of the wee boxes were coloured in red at the bottom right. Talked about it on BBC this morning. Headline was along the lines of:

"This is only how much we reduced the debt with the yesterday's cuts" - or something similar.

Now have I missed something or do the £6 billion cuts not relate to the deficit and not the debt ? The debt is going to increase for at least the next 3 years until the deficit turns into a surplus. Only at that point can the actual debt be re-paid.

So do the Independent not know this ?! Or am I just being dumb.

Either way please let me know !!

I guess what the Indy is getting at is that extra costs incurred by the nation are added to the deficit and to the national debt simultaneously; equally the elimation of those costs is deducted from the deficit and debt simultaneously too.

Put simply the deficit measures the excess of govt spending over tax revenue in a given year. The debt is the accumulation of deficits over the years.

In straightforward company accounting, a cost incurred on a profit and loss sheet is simultaneously recorded as a liability on the balance sheet.

Why do we have a deficit? The government was spending too much for the revenues it was earning. Had the credit crunch not happened and the economy carrried on as before the govt might have earned sufficient tax revenues to cover its spending, so no deficit, but in reality tax revenues have collapsed thanks to the recession caused by the credit crunch.

Who was responsible for the credit crunch? Banks certainly for creating and trading debt instruments whose value is now deeply in question. The banks are finding it difficult to lend at previous levels which means the private business in the productive sector can't finance their activities so easily, hence a slowing in economic growth. However it was the government that turned a blind eye to goings-on in the City, thus allowing the banks to indulge in such highly dubious activity.

The dire state of the nation's finances are certainly a result of the government's over-ambitious spending plans and its failure to reign in the banks, but the bankers themselves must take a large slice of the blame too. Somehow since the election, the news organisations seem to have forgotten the need to keep reiterating this point about the bankers to the public and now prefer to focus on blaming the politicians alone.

Edited by Dave Spart

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So, should we buy a house now before the country defaults on the debt and every Pound in savings becomes 10p?

Serious question.

buy what you can afford to pay for if you lose your job!

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Forgive me If i'm wrong on this, but wouldn't that make more sense if it was a deficit mountain of £163bn with a £6bn reduction

rather than a debt mountain of £893bn with a £6bn reduction. What about the years deficit of £157bn (163 - 6) which will get plopped on top?

We're really ******ed aren't we?

Has anyone stopped to count the blocks?

Is this meant to be 6bn trimmed off 167bn or 893bn?

Looks like 167bn to me.

Edited by Dave Spart

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So, should we buy a house now before the country defaults on the debt and every Pound in savings becomes 10p?

Serious question.

If it comes to that, 'owning' a house and having a mortgage will be the least of your worries.

Serious answer. ;)

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Forgive me If i'm wrong on this, but wouldn't that make more sense if it was a deficit mountain of £163bn with a £6bn reduction

rather than a debt mountain of £893bn with a £6bn reduction. What about the years deficit of £157bn (163 - 6) which will get plopped on top?

We're really ******ed aren't we?

Pure speculation, but maybe they didn't want people to read the paper folded up in which case the red part would look like a fairly big portion of the overall white bit, even though the unseen underside of the paper is whiter than a birthday party at Nick Griffin's house.

Edited by tochinoki

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.....the bankers themselves must take a large slice of the blame too. Somehow since the election, the news organisations seem to have forgotten the need to keep reiterating this point about the bankers to the public and now prefer to focus on blaming the politicians alone.

They (the media) were playing that trick ages ago - it was (IMHO) to ensure a Tory victory thus ensuring that the oiks pay the bill and not the toffs. There's plenty of wingnuts on here that want to hold Brown personally responsible as it suits their wakko view of the world. Brown's mistake was to assume that the bankers were even remotely honest when they told him things are OK and to assume the huge tax receipts from these vile fraudsters would keep rolling in. The third part of the blame triangle are the "millions of hardworking families" that obtained fraudulent mortgages to borrow against the religion of ever rising house prices. So far Brown has paid for it by losing his job (fair enough) the banksters have not paid at all and have, if anything, become more smug and considerably richer and the feckless borrowing classes have not paid either.

I think the latter group are about to get their medicine, although by and large it will be spat out and cover a great many people that do not need to take it. Brown's wounded pride will heal when Panorama or some such similar (assuming failed banker Dave doesn't scrap the beeb and replace it with Fox news) do an exposé of "How the Banks Screwed the UK Economy". Meanwhile the banksters will carry on as usual and then say "oh sorry" from their multi-million pound houses after the Panorama Special.

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Will this be before or after we lynch Brown and Harman on the BBC - they could make it a live show, have Graham Norton host it and we all can have a telephone vote... £1 per call of course...

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  • 261 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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