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JustYield

Universal Agreement

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Universal Agreement.

Is there any statement about which there is universal agreement?

Even when there is broad agreement on something, language often gets in the way and so a minor disagreement can develop.

And we all have a unique perspective on things, so no two people can possibly ever view things exactly the same way.

I know this is not an original thought, but this forum is a case in point. A self-consistent perfectly logical statement can be made and sure enough while most people will agree, someone will come along and post "I disagree." and make a counter-statement... and so it goes.

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Universal Agreement.

Is there any statement about which there is universal agreement?

Even when there is broad agreement on something, language often gets in the way and so a minor disagreement can develop.

And we all have a unique perspective on things, so no two people can possibly ever view things exactly the same way.

I know this is not an original thought, but this forum is a case in point. A self-consistent perfectly logical statement can be made and sure enough while most people will agree, someone will come along and post "I disagree." and make a counter-statement... and so it goes.

Read any Wittgenstein?

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Universal Agreement.

Is there any statement about which there is universal agreement?

Even when there is broad agreement on something, language often gets in the way and so a minor disagreement can develop.

And we all have a unique perspective on things, so no two people can possibly ever view things exactly the same way.

I know this is not an original thought, but this forum is a case in point. A self-consistent perfectly logical statement can be made and sure enough while most people will agree, someone will come along and post "I disagree." and make a counter-statement... and so it goes.

There can be universal agreement, if we include actions in communication.

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I don't think so. Descartes had a go with "I think, therefore I am", which was supposed to be his most fundamental truth once he had applied skepticism to everything else he could read, see, hear, smell, remember etc. You could say it is difficult to imagine a thought without a thinker, but that only opens up a whole can of philosophical worms as to what you mean by "thought", "thinker" etc.

I think in the end you just have to accept that nothing is perfectly knowable (not even the assertion that nothing is perfectly knowable is perfectly knowable!) and try to apply the appropriate amount of information gathering, reasoning, and skepticism to any beliefs you may have now or come across in the future. It is human to act on imperfect information, although sadly that does sometimes result in behaviour that could be described as "sheeple-like" e.g. selling a farm for one tulip bulb.

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Universal Agreement.

Is there any statement about which there is universal agreement?

Yes. But only when there isn't.

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Bacon is delicious. Most bacon-related statements are ontologically solid IMHO.

I meant apart from statements about bacon, obviously.

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Universal Agreement.

Is there any statement about which there is universal agreement?

Even when there is broad agreement on something, language often gets in the way and so a minor disagreement can develop.

And we all have a unique perspective on things, so no two people can possibly ever view things exactly the same way.

I know this is not an original thought, but this forum is a case in point. A self-consistent perfectly logical statement can be made and sure enough while most people will agree, someone will come along and post "I disagree." and make a counter-statement... and so it goes.

Oh dear.

It's a slippery slope you know.

If you want to continue to be able to take decisions and act on them(I'm assuming you currently can) then stop this kind of thinking immediately, go and dig your garden and plant whatever should be planted at this time.

I seriously believe you will find more fundamental truths while doing that.

Just MO. (having wasted a lot of time at uni discussing this crap)

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Oh dear.

It's a slippery slope you know.

If you want to continue to be able to take decisions and act on them(I'm assuming you currently can) then stop this kind of thinking immediately, go and dig your garden and plant whatever should be planted at this time.

I seriously believe you will find more fundamental truths while doing that.

Just MO. (having wasted a lot of time at uni discussing this crap)

Perhaps you were too young at the time? With 20 or so years behind you since then does any of it help explain the root cause of the problems we face?

I'm more interested in the practical ramifications of this aspect of the human condition than what "is" is.

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There is no statement about which there is universal agreement.

Semantic word play being the bane of 'philosophy', and why it's long been relegated to the less imaginative of minds at university....

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No, but I sort of know who he is; I went to his college. Perhaps I'm ready for him now.

This is the most mind-blowing philosophy book I've ever read. You don't need to know much maths to follow it, but you do need the ability to re-read apparently simple sentences over and over again.

http://www.amazon.com/Wittgensteins-Lectures-Foundations-Mathematics-Cambridge/dp/0226904261

PM me and I might be able to provide you with a copy.

He tries to understand and explain what it really means to have agreement in mathematics.

So (for example) you might say there's universal agreement that 1+1=2, but what does this in fact mean, and should we go about trying to prove it? These and many other questions are explored in fascinating ways.

It's gripping to me, if only to read him arguing with Turing. Wish I'd been there.

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This is the most mind-blowing philosophy book I've ever read. You don't need to know much maths to follow it, but you do need the ability to re-read apparently simple sentences over and over again.

http://www.amazon.com/Wittgensteins-Lectures-Foundations-Mathematics-Cambridge/dp/0226904261

PM me and I might be able to provide you with a copy.

He tries to understand and explain what it really means to have agreement in mathematics.

So (for example) you might say there's universal agreement that 1+1=2, but what does this in fact mean, and should we go about trying to prove it? These and many other questions are explored in fascinating ways.

It's gripping to me, if only to read him arguing with Turing. Wish I'd been there.

Wow that does look interesting. Based on lecture notes made by others - how apt. Sending PM.

I think I'll get AC Grayling's introduction and read that first, it's available in the local book store here and he is one of the clearest writers I know.

very short intro

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Wow that does look interesting. Based on lecture notes made by others - how apt. Sending PM.

I think I'll get AC Grayling's introduction and read that first, it's available in the local book store here and he is one of the clearest writers I know.

very short intro

Wittgenstein is fascinating for so many reasons. Personal life, family life, relationship with Russell, development of his thinking, his apparently original approach to philosophy etc etc..

I can't pretend to understand even 10% of his utterances, but the bits I have grasped have changed the way I see the world.

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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