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Tax Changes Causing Unease In Tory Heartlands

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Tax changes causing unease in Tory heartlands

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/7753489/Tax-changes-causing-unease-in-Tory-heartlands.html

The political danger for the new government is if this comes to be seen as a tax on aspiration. David Cameron said last week that a second home was "not necessarily a splendid investment for the whole economy" – a comment which led to shaking heads and pursed lips among the aspirational Tories of Canterbury. "It's all right for him," said one councillor. "He's always had two homes, but it's something a lot of our voters dream about."

More dangerous still is if a fire sale of buy-to-lets depresses the broader property market, on which so many people's feelings of prosperity depend. Even in the few days since the issue came on to the radar, the Canterbury estate agents say that second-home owners and buy-to-let landlords have been coming in to sell their properties before the tax rise hits.

"I've had two today," said Neil Boswell, director of Caxtons. "The buy-to-let market in Canterbury is enormous." Gary Curtis, sales manager at Amos and Dawton, said: "Fifteen minutes before you came in, there was a buy-to-let landlord sitting in front of me and thinking about selling." Bill Dane, at Your Move, said: "I'm seeing a property this afternoon for that reason, and our main valuer is out on another job for the same purpose. It hasn't been massive, yet, but it could have a big effect on the market."

Richard Donnell, research director of the analysts Hometrack, says: "A reasonable proportion of the small landlords will look to sell. That will have an impact on local markets." And he has another warning: that the Government may end up paying more if the number of buy-to-let properties falls. "If there is a shortage of rental homes, that could lead to a big increase in council or housing association waiting lists," he said. In the final analysis, though, he does not believe the impact will be seismic. "A lot of buy-to-let landlords are sitting on big paper losses," Donnell says. "If you are underwater on capital values, you may sit it out."

That, perhaps even more than property, is a subject Kentish voters feel in their visceras. Canterbury and Whitstable, like a lot of places along the Thames estuary, are full of working-class whites who have moved out of London. And when they fume about immigrants, they don't just mean ethnic minorities. "Second home owners in Whitstable are deeply unpopular with local people," says Brazier. "They call them the DFLs – down-from-Londons."

So some effects of the tax rises could actually be popular with the electorate. And immigration generally is not an area where the Tories in the coalition have given much ground. But if even your councillors, in the bluest of heartlands, are feeling bruised, that cannot be an entirely encouraging sign for the future.

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Ah that weasel word "aspiration". If your aspiration is to own two homes, I don't see that anyone is stopping you. However, in this context "aspiration" seems to be a codeword for entitlement to unearned money, but we don't say it out loud because that is a vice only poor people have.

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These Tories have to realise the new political reality of the UK.

They do not have a Tory government, and if proportional representation comes in, they may never again see a Tory (or Labour) government.

It could be that the LibDems have a very bright future just being Kingmakers.

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If they wanted a welfare system of effortess property profits that come at the expense of everyone else, why didn't they vote labour - 'the welfare party'? Seriously, the labour party would have tried its best to give them their freebie!

The Torys are going to have have to confront the welfare queens in their party if they are going to have policies that remotely make economic sense. Many of these people are very influential and, because they are welfare queens, have a lot of money .

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Ah that weasel word "aspiration". If your aspiration is to own two homes, I don't see that anyone is stopping you. However, in this context "aspiration" seems to be a codeword for entitlement to unearned money, but we don't say it out loud because that is a vice only poor people have.

Someone should tell these dickhead councillors that Aspiration and Austerity both begin with the letter A.

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...their bubble created 'profits' need to be taxed in a proper manner ...to pay for the deficit ..which they created and bled .... :rolleyes:

Edited by South Lorne

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However, in this context "aspiration" seems to be a codeword for entitlement to unearned money, but we don't say it out loud because that is a vice only poor people have.

They are more or less arguing that they have more right to an entirely unearned increment of value under their houses than a man or woman has right to the wage he collects for working. It is an entirely preposterous and contradictory position that would leave them no leg to stand on if exposed to the light of day (public debate). But these debates (for obvious reasons) rarely happen in the light of day.

Edited by Stars

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If it wasnt for the government stealing money from every saver CGT wouldnt be an issue for 90%+ of BTLers.

Seriously, about 1% of the population 'own' over one house, it would be a travesty if that 1% wants are put before the needs of the masses.

Even if they didnt directly benefit from lower rates, they indirectly have through a subsidised market. I dont think taxes can ever be called 'moral' but this is about as decent a tax as is imaginable.

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If it wasnt for the government stealing money from every saver CGT wouldnt be an issue for 90%+ of BTLers.

Seriously, about 1% of the population 'own' over one house, it would be a travesty if that 1% wants are put before the needs of the masses.

Even if they didnt directly benefit from lower rates, they indirectly have through a subsidised market. I dont think taxes can ever be called 'moral' but this is about as decent a tax as is imaginable.

The problem is of course that it clobbers other forms of useful investment. But then if they target the housing market directly then they'd have practically admitted this this is the source of our problems, and we can't have that. So the burden has to shared by the productive too, to make it politically tolerable.

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I didnt think the average BTL-er would wake up to the effect of the CGT rise in time, but it seems it might be starting to register.

It may well spark a sell-off as its a real dilemma for them.

Share owners can easily sell and rebuy, crystallisng their gain at the old rate. It can be wortth a lot.

Property owners can't easily do this because they are so illiquid and have very high transaction costs.

I didn't think the CGT rise would have much effect, but, well this could just be the domino that sets it all off.

I wonder when the CGT rise would kick in?

I'm surprised we haven't seen Kirsty sounding off yet.

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Quote:

And he has another warning: that the Government may end up paying more if the number of buy-to-let properties falls. "If there is a shortage of rental homes, that could lead to a big increase in council or housing association waiting lists."

Yet another VI who seems to suggest that selling a 2nd home means it physically disappears. If it's bought by someone who was previously renting, it could do excatly the opposite, reduce the demand for rental property. And if it was previously a BTL house which remains so, the status quo remains, just the owner changes.

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Isn't it just amazing that after 13 years of Labour it's taken a Tory Prime Minister to utter these words and take the right action?

Quite funny reading the left-leaning posters here desperately avoiding that simple fact and trying to equate the Tories with these complainers rather than the actual Government itself.

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Quote:

And he has another warning: that the Government may end up paying more if the number of buy-to-let properties falls. "If there is a shortage of rental homes, that could lead to a big increase in council or housing association waiting lists."

Yet another VI who seems to suggest that selling a 2nd home means it physically disappears. If it's bought by someone who was previously renting, it could do excatly the opposite, reduce the demand for rental property. And if it was previously a BTL house which remains so, the status quo remains, just the owner changes.

What's most annoying about this is that he say's it as if he has an altruistic desire to further renters rights when in reality he's using moral suasion to cover his BTL VI.

CGT on second homes will be fantastic news and something most of us on here have been waiting for, for a long time.

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I wouldn't read too much into this. It's journos stirring things. In real life, most BTL landlords are in it for the long term: why should they sell? The areas where they'll be in trouble are precisely where there are no capital gains, rather the reverse. But we already know about newbuild shoeboxes rapidly becoming slums.

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Isn't it just amazing that after 13 years of Labour it's taken a Tory Prime Minister to utter these words and take the right action?

Quite funny reading the left-leaning posters here desperately avoiding that simple fact and trying to equate the Tories with these complainers rather than the actual Government itself.

If we had a Tory government you might have a point... :P

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I aspire to have two women in bed, but the gf won't allow it. I also aspire to driving two cars at once, watching two tellies (one for each eye) and having two holidays at the same time.

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If we had a Tory government you might have a point... :P

Oh don't talk soft. You seriously think the Libs are pulling Cameron round that far to stuff he doesn't want to do? Cameron is using the Libs to construct the government he wants whilst having a shield to lay off some of the "blame". I don't remember the Libs having a policy to sort out CGT like that, not do I recall Nick Clegg telling people that 2nd home BTLs weren't good for the economy. Seems that was all Dave's own work.

Fact is that in the last two weeks we've had more real stuff declared that actually understands what's happening than all the sh1t Labour lumped on in years. That must truly burn the Left.

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Oh don't talk soft. You seriously think the Libs are pulling Cameron round that far to stuff he doesn't want to do? Cameron is using the Libs to construct the government he wants whilst having a shield to lay off some of the "blame". I don't remember the Libs having a policy to sort out CGT like that, not do I recall Nick Clegg telling people that 2nd home BTLs weren't good for the economy. Seems that was all Dave's own work.

Fact is that in the last two weeks we've had more real stuff declared that actually understands what's happening than all the sh1t Labour lumped on in years. That must truly burn the Left.

:lol::lol::lol:

Bankers are still n charge and will be until the collapse.

Total aim of lib/tor?

To steal as much as possible before the roof caves in. They simply do not give a shit.

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David Cameron said last week that a second home was "not necessarily a splendid investment for the whole economy"

I can't believe he said that

I'm really starting to like DC

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Oh don't talk soft. You seriously think the Libs are pulling Cameron round that far to stuff he doesn't want to do? Cameron is using the Libs to construct the government he wants whilst having a shield to lay off some of the "blame". I don't remember the Libs having a policy to sort out CGT like that, not do I recall Nick Clegg telling people that 2nd home BTLs weren't good for the economy. Seems that was all Dave's own work.

Fact is that in the last two weeks we've had more real stuff declared that actually understands what's happening than all the sh1t Labour lumped on in years. That must truly burn the Left.

The "left" abandoned Labour during John Smith's period of leadership. I hate this Americanisation of our politics where its possible to pretend that New Labour, much like US Democrats, are somehow unreconstructed Marxist-Leninists. The left certainly didn't vote for them in 1997, I think you'll find that was the same "aspirational" idiots who are now denying all involvement. In Civilization & Its Discontents, Freud called what you are exhibiting "the narcissism of small differences". You're right though, it is all Dave's work. That being the problem for many. You seem to have contradicted yourself a tad. ;)

A nice piece from Andrew Rawnsely on the subject of Dave's relationship with his party: http://www.guardian....meron-coalition

Edited by Cogs

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:lol::lol::lol:

Bankers are still n charge and will be until the collapse.

Total aim of lib/tor?

To steal as much as possible before the roof caves in. They simply do not give a shit.

I doubt it's possible for as many people to deliberately scheme toward that objective as you suggest without at least some of them saying so. I have no problem with the idea that the situation is in so deep as to make even Heads of Government powerless to do more than touch the tiller, but I don't think so many people can be so well drilled as you imply.

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  • 152 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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