Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

They're Stealing Our Savings


Recommended Posts

So what about those that are not in and will never be in a position to make choices like that.....money makes money to those in the know and so it goes on...the rich will get richer, if we let them. ;)

i am not arguing that the morality of residential property accumulation for cap gain is not wrong, i fundamentally believe it is which is one of the reasons i live in a country where property taxation is put in place to stop such wealth being easily transferred to property. I see no reason to stop the rich getting richer through enterprise, it is good for the economy to have real investment. Its also why the UK is completely screwed because of the imbalance created over the last 40 years of nearly all the wealth/ debt being accumulated in property assets so it doesnt neccesarily exist which is alas what is due to be realised

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

i am not arguing that the morality of residential property accumulation is not wrong, i fundamentally believe it is which is one of the reasons i live in a country where property taxation is put in place to stop such wealth being easily transferred to property. I see no reason to stop the rich getting richer through enterprise, it is good for the economy to have real investment. Its also why the UK is completely screwed because of the imbalance created over the last 40 years of nearly all the wealth being stuck in property assets

So we agree then....encourage real enterprise, manufacturing, SMEs.....people that will make a difference and get the show back on the road again. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So we agree then....encourage real enterprise, manufacturing, SMEs.....people that will make a difference and get the show back on the road again. :rolleyes:

yes broadly, but it will be a very long haul (decades) and there needs to be an extremely painful reset first from which to form solid building foundations

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes bang on this 18% rate has only been around for a very short time , the tax is just going back to what it was , I don't understand the walling from so many people.

In the Mail yesterday there was a piece on renting and a quote from one agent

" have they gone mad ? if this rise goes ahead many tenants could potentially be left fighting for properties as landlords are forced to sell"

Why would landlords be forced to sell ? just because the tax has gone back to what it was when they first bought ?

I think the introduction of the 18% rate also brought about the removal of tapering relief (basically you used to pay much lower cgt rates if you held you property/asset for longer - thus encouraging people to hang on longer and, flippers got punished).

As far as I know now, the 40% comes without the reintroduction of the tapering relief, thus everone gets taxed the same high rate, short term speculators or long term investors...

To be fair I actually think the original system was quite good, but hey, it's not like I actually benefitted by any cgt tax change one way or the other!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like this quote "there are millions of hard-working people who don’t have phenomenal goldplated pensions like they do."

Says the man who is wanting to clear £100K profit from the sale of a second house which by owning no doubt helped destroy the local community in Cornwall as all the locals were priced out by greedy b*stards like him hoping to make a profit and "have lovely holidays there with family and friends" these people simply do not realise that they are as big a parasites (if not worse) as anyone else.

Personally I hope none of them can sell and prices drop significantly so not only do they have the extra stress from being unable to sell - whilst watching the prices drop - but they do not get as much equity as they think they deserve.

Borrowing to buy second homes/investments should never have been allowed. Its about time the pendulum swung back to those who actually need homes.

Absolutely. I have posted a comment to the article.

That bloke who bought the holiday home in Cornawall is just a selfish, greedy **** who doesn`t give a **** about anyone else.

Sorry about the language, but this really get me angry. He admits that he took a "gamble" buying a second home, and now is bleating because the game might not pay off as much as he thought. I expect he gave no thought to the locals in the area who might once have been able to afford a property like he bought, simply to live in.

He would have nothing to camplain about if he had simply sold up his property "in the city" and moved to Cornwall to live and serve the local community. But no, he wanted the best of both worlds. I bet the Cornish population just love all these wealthy city types coming in and buying up their homes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the introduction of the 18% rate also brought about the removal of tapering relief (basically you used to pay much lower cgt rates if you held you property/asset for longer - thus encouraging people to hang on longer and, flippers got punished).

As far as I know now, the 40% comes without the reintroduction of the tapering relief, thus everone gets taxed the same high rate, short term speculators or long term investors...

To be fair I actually think the original system was quite good, but hey, it's not like I actually benefitted by any cgt tax change one way or the other!

Yes after four years of holding a property the tax started to drop a 40% tax payer if he held long enough could get it down to 25% .

There was also indexation relief that allowed for inflation so you only got taxed on the profit net of allowing for infaltion .

We do not know yet what the new system will bring in whether they well reintroduce indexation and a lower tax band for holding the asset for a longer time , looking forward to finding out .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Property is too important to be left for spivs to gamble with. CGT should be 100% of the gain over RPI - perhaps with a small , say ~1% allowance. If you want to invest long-term i.e. become a professional landlord, that's OK - at least the house is put to use, but these people who bought second "holiday" homes and are winging about their "loss", bygum, pass me my shotgun!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aren't houses in Switzerland even more expensive than they are in the UK?

How does the cost of a house in a village outside Nyon compare to a house in a village outside somewhere like Cheltenham for example?

im not saying they are not expensive, (theres alot of wealth here), im saying simply that wealth generated through property is reinvested for all through high level property taxes , capital and yield, thus reducing speculation in property to a minimum. As for Nyon, im not sure but i would imagine farkin expensive because of where it is, much higher than cheltenham could ever get to

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it was in the 70s or 80s the welsh had a solution to holiday homes; petrol and matches were involved. While not advocating this extreme measure I fully understand the locals anger, we have friends in the Lake District who have the same problem. It would be fairly simple to make second homes subject to heavy taxes with punative fines and additional measures (forced sales etc) for people who did not pay or declare the second home (ie buying via the kids or wife etc) just need a freephone line for the locals to call re the 'second home'.

I like TDL's point of view - is this the same thing as taxing 2nd homes?

thing is - I suspect 2nd homes blighting rural areas is a secondary symptom of the housing bubble - d*ckheads who see it as just more property investment that wil make a profit irrespective of ongoing marginal losses

specific 2nd home legislation doesn't seem as appropriate as general anti-bubble legislation frankly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

im not saying they are not expensive, (theres alot of wealth here), im saying simply that wealth generated through property is reinvested for all through high level property taxes , capital and yield, thus reducing speculation in property to a minimum. As for Nyon, im not sure but i would imagine farkin expensive because of where it is, much higher than cheltenham could ever get to

Looking at immostreet.ch, there seems to be a lot of newly built property around Nyon. Is the quality of new builds there any better than it is in the UK?

Are you saying that high Swiss house prices are justified by wealth rather than income and are less vulnerable to the downside than UK properties which rely on leverage and vulnerable incomes?

Is this another way to say that wealth is permanent while high income might be transitory?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Switzerland many people rent long term and are protected by decent tenancy laws so I guess this also has an effect of property prices, coupled with the the swiss tax regime which I do not know the the specifics.

I think there needs to be both anti-bubble as well as 2nd home control as the 2nd home problem goes back even to when property was more realistic in terms of multiples of ave salaries.

2nd home control yes, I suppose, just not banning

I really believe in a certain degree of freedom and if someone makes a lot of money and wants to aford another place in the country then fair play to them - but I part-concede your point in that progressive taxes could be applied

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2nd home control yes, I suppose, just not banning

I really believe in a certain degree of freedom and if someone makes a lot of money and wants to aford another place in the country then fair play to them - but I part-concede your point in that progressive taxes could be applied

....so instead of having [email protected] £250k will have [email protected] £500k or one in your name and one in mine...... will that save taxes :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
We bought the plot in 2000 complete with a grade-II listed cottage and a barn. We renovated the cottage as our own home and got planning permission to pull down the barn and build a second home that would earn income as a holiday let and be a nest egg for retirement.

In 2007 we had to sell our beloved cottage and move to a bungalow in Bournemouth. We kept the plot of land with a view to still building a second home.

An Angela and Nicholas Helder had a company, now dissolved, at this Bridport address.

http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/908207889

http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/908207891

They sure know how to complain despite massive gains overall, but looks like their timing was good, selling in 2007, having hived off another build plot from it for themselves.

Sale Date: 02 Nov 2007. Price Paid: £510,000

Sale Date: 21 Jun 2001. Price Paid: £220,000

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=23481801&sale=15520475&country=england

The current owners of the Grade II house are now trying to sell, and on the other side of the equation. Came to market in July 2012 with a Guide Price of £550,000. Two asking price cuts since, with the last cut in October 2012 taking it down to Guide Price £495,000... and still on the market.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23481801.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Express misleading headline about "savings" is no coincidence - it's just at a time when there's lots of discussion about the theft of Cypriot savings as well as the continued theft of UK savings through out of control inflation that the Express chooses to again side with the 2nd home owners using the "savings" theme.

To be fair they've had an extremely good run over several years with ridiculously low interest rates etc etc but do they expect it to go on forever. Clearly the Express wants it to.

Edited by billybong
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Express misleading headline about "savings" is no coincidence - it's just at a time when there's lots of discussion about the theft of Cypriot savings as well as the continued theft of UK savings through out of control inflation that the Express chooses to again side with the 2nd home owners using the "savings" theme.

look at the date of the OP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

look at the date of the OP.

Fair point. Omit the reference to Cypriot savings.

The points made still apply though and it's just as likely now (maybe even more likely) that the Express will come up with another 2nd home article referring to their loss of "savings".

Edited by billybong
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Property is too important to be left for spivs to gamble with. CGT should be 100% of the gain over RPI - perhaps with a small , say ~1% allowance. If you want to invest long-term i.e. become a professional landlord, that's OK - at least the house is put to use, but these people who bought second "holiday" homes and are winging about their "loss", bygum, pass me my shotgun!

They wouldn't have the spare cash if City pay was regulated - it causes such a sarf east imbalance it wrecks other parts of the country for locals.

The locals also face the distasteful fact in knowing all their spare dosh and pensions are recklessly gambled with and a gigantic theft from pensions is taking place.

In addition the bankers/elites have restructured the country thru creation of huge business 'chains' to suck money out of local regions that gets invested back in the City for them to skim and play with.

Govt and local Govt spivs have enabled them to carry this out since the big bang

Edited by erranta
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair point. Omit the reference to Cypriot savings.

The points made still apply though and it's just as likely now (maybe even more likely) that the Express will come up with another 2nd home article referring to their loss of "savings".

Yep, its like a broken record now. still bleating the same in 2010 as now in 2013

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.





×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.