Whisky Cask Investment?!?!?

[abdn]

am toying with the idea of buying a cask of whisky to lay down as a 'sort of' investment for the kids. (bit more personal (and fun!!!) than a trust fund/share/gold portfolio))

Currently a cask costs around £1500 --> for 190 litres (

The price includes storage and insurance for 10 years - But would need to add on bottling costs , Tax and VAT at the end of the period (or sell it back to the distillery.)

– after evaporation it’ll produce around 220 bottle at cask strength and 300 bottles at 43%

I’m thinking of a 20 year lay up until the kids are old enough to decide for themselves what they want to do with it – a bottle of 20year old whisky currently retails at around £50 - -> £70

Just a money making gimmick for the distillery or an actual investment??

- any opinions??

http://www.scotlandwhisky.com/about/874668/

[Peter Hun]

Where is this? It sounds interesting.

http://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/swa/93.html#Investment

Edited May 21, 2010 by Peter Hun

[abdn]

*Currently a cask costs around £1500 -->

sorry should be upwards of £1500 (was going to put £1500 --> £xxxxxx but kept on finding more expensive options....and can't seem to edit my original post)

Where is this?

sorry don't quite understand the question??? quite a lot of the smaller single malt distilleries do this kind of thing, not sure if it's a recent development.

[Peter Hun]

*Currently a cask costs around £1500 -->

sorry should be upwards of £1500 (was going to put £1500 --> £xxxxxx but kept on finding more expensive options....and can't seem to edit my original post)

sorry don't quite understand the question??? quite a lot of the smaller single malt distilleries do this kind of thing, not sure if it's a recent development.

I was simply asking where you saw that price.

VAT and duty adds another ~£2500 at current rates.

[abdn]

I was simply asking where you saw that price.

ahhh sorry! i thought for a minute you meant which distillery

most of the details are on the order forms

e.g. http://www.bruichladdich.com/caskoffer/caskoffer2010.pdf - has prices

Fresh Bourbon Barrel £1250:00

French Oak Wine Cask £1550:00

http://www.glenglassaugh.com/pdf/cask/Octave_2010_Order_Form.pdf

Type Nominal Capacity (litres) Price

Ex-Port Pipes (first fill) 580 litres £6,500

Ex-Sherry Butts (first fill) 500 litres £6,250

Ex-Sherry Hogsheads (first fill) 250 litres £3,000

Ex-Port Hogsheads (first fill) 250 litres £3,000

Ex-Red Wine Barrel (first fill) 210 litres £2,500

Re-Charred Wine Barrel 210 litres £2,500

Ex-Bourbon Barrel (first fill) 190 litres £2,500

Etc.......

not sure it's such a good investment - there would be quite a large final payment to clear the Tax and VAT which if you haven't got at the time would be a bit *ahem* awkward...

did come across one (somewhere) where it was around £500 for 90 litres.... guess i need to research this a bit more

Edited May 24, 2010 by abdn

[rconti479]

not sure it's such a good investment - there would be quite a large final payment to clear the Tax and VAT which if you haven't got at the time would be a bit *ahem* awkward...

This is possibly the most important bit. I would definitely check and make sure there is a secondary market for whiskey - if you do want to sell down the line, who do you sell it to and how easy it?

I have invested in wine (the thread is in this forum) - one of the most important things for me is that there is (and has been) a very strong secondary market consisting of merchants, brokers and individuals, so that when the time comes I can sell my wine to them "in bond" and avoid any duty and VAT liabilities (they will inherit those costs if they decide to remove the wines from bond).

[1888]

only one snag

in 20 yrs time whisky will be illegal in the UK

under Sharia law

actually it sounds quite enticing

if I could get a dozen people interested

I might do it myself

[Barrelboy]

am toying with the idea of buying a cask of whisky to lay down as a 'sort of' investment for the kids. (bit more personal (and fun!!!) than a trust fund/share/gold portfolio))

Currently a cask costs around £1500 --> for 190 litres (

The price includes storage and insurance for 10 years - But would need to add on bottling costs , Tax and VAT at the end of the period (or sell it back to the distillery.)

– after evaporation it’ll produce around 220 bottle at cask strength and 300 bottles at 43%

I’m thinking of a 20 year lay up until the kids are old enough to decide for themselves what they want to do with it – a bottle of 20year old whisky currently retails at around £50 - -> £70

Just a money making gimmick for the distillery or an actual investment??

- any opinions??

http://www.scotlandwhisky.com/about/874668/

[Barrelboy]

I would stop "toying" with the idea and go for it. I have been holidaying on Islay for the past 35 years and have friends there. They alerted me to the barrel investment 9 years ago. They knew the people involved and vouched for them. I also had it checked out by two investment advisers - one English and one Scottish. They advised me it was a good deal (one estimate was 10% return but this analysis was done 9 years ago so I don't have current figures; but I can't imagine that they have changed much). The worst that can happen is that you end up with 200 bottles of 10 year old single malt for less than £15 each. The initial outlay is small and you can draw the final bottles slowly and spread a good deal of the final cost over a long period). You can sell back some of the whisky to Bruichladdich to defray some of the costs.

The whole thing is also great fun. There are huge bragging opportunities. I get the occasional sample sent to check on progress and display them prominently! Anyway, it is a perfectly good investment and, if you like whisky, good fun too. I have a barrel (hoping to turn it into bottles in a couple of years), a hogshead and share another hogshead with a friend. Several of my friends bought casks - one of them was the original investment adviser I spoke to. I now take a great interest in whisky and collect rare bottles as investments. As a barrel owner you get the chance to buy other unique bottlings which are good investments too. You must also visit the distillery. They are very friendly and give short tours with long tastings after. There is a great restaurant next door (an added bonus). My only other advice would be to go for one of the special casks rather than a bourbon refill. You seem to get a be smoother, darker whisky if it sits in a sherry or port cask, or better still Chateau Yquem if it is still available.

It certainly isn't a scam - certainly nothing like ostrich farming! Yes, it does raise cash for the distillery and helps their cashflow (remember that it takes a good few years from producing the first whisky to having bottles to sell so when they started up they needed some cash coming in to bridge that gap), but it gives us a unique opportunity too. Go for it. Your idea of keeping it for 20 years is good (but you need to have the distiller advise you on the best time to bottle it) as older whisky is worth much more. I would love to leave all mine for 40 years but, unfortunately, if I did that I would have been dead for 10 years! I need to drink mine sooner. But I would like to leave one cask to my children.

Hope this helps.

[2storey]

I would stop "toying" with the idea and go for it. I have been holidaying on Islay for the past 35 years and have friends there. They alerted me to the barrel investment 9 years ago. They knew the people involved and vouched for them. I also had it checked out by two investment advisers - one English and one Scottish. They advised me it was a good deal (one estimate was 10% return but this analysis was done 9 years ago so I don't have current figures; but I can't imagine that they have changed much). The worst that can happen is that you end up with 200 bottles of 10 year old single malt for less than £15 each. The initial outlay is small and you can draw the final bottles slowly and spread a good deal of the final cost over a long period). You can sell back some of the whisky to Bruichladdich to defray some of the costs.

The whole thing is also great fun. There are huge bragging opportunities. I get the occasional sample sent to check on progress and display them prominently! Anyway, it is a perfectly good investment and, if you like whisky, good fun too. I have a barrel (hoping to turn it into bottles in a couple of years), a hogshead and share another hogshead with a friend. Several of my friends bought casks - one of them was the original investment adviser I spoke to. I now take a great interest in whisky and collect rare bottles as investments. As a barrel owner you get the chance to buy other unique bottlings which are good investments too. You must also visit the distillery. They are very friendly and give short tours with long tastings after. There is a great restaurant next door (an added bonus). My only other advice would be to go for one of the special casks rather than a bourbon refill. You seem to get a be smoother, darker whisky if it sits in a sherry or port cask, or better still Chateau Yquem if it is still available.

It certainly isn't a scam - certainly nothing like ostrich farming! Yes, it does raise cash for the distillery and helps their cashflow (remember that it takes a good few years from producing the first whisky to having bottles to sell so when they started up they needed some cash coming in to bridge that gap), but it gives us a unique opportunity too. Go for it. Your idea of keeping it for 20 years is good (but you need to have the distiller advise you on the best time to bottle it) as older whisky is worth much more. I would love to leave all mine for 40 years but, unfortunately, if I did that I would have been dead for 10 years! I need to drink mine sooner. But I would like to leave one cask to my children.

Hope this helps.

I agree that ownership of a cask of whisky is very much an investment in "fun" I don't know of any distilleries that promote it as an actual financial investment opportunity although you should end up with a few hundred bottles of reasonably cheap single malt whisky (£13 -£15 per bottle) and more friends than you had realised, assuming that you haven't bored them all to death talking about your cask. I chose Bladnoch because of it's location, location, location. It's convenient to the North of England for visiting purposes, is highly regarded and the small scale of their production makes it comparatively rare.

[getdoon_weebobby]

I would stop "toying" with the idea and go for it. I have been holidaying on Islay for the past 35 years and have friends there. They alerted me to the barrel investment 9 years ago. They knew the people involved and vouched for them. I also had it checked out by two investment advisers - one English and one Scottish. They advised me it was a good deal (one estimate was 10% return but this analysis was done 9 years ago so I don't have current figures; but I can't imagine that they have changed much). The worst that can happen is that you end up with 200 bottles of 10 year old single malt for less than £15 each. The initial outlay is small and you can draw the final bottles slowly and spread a good deal of the final cost over a long period). You can sell back some of the whisky to Bruichladdich to defray some of the costs.

The whole thing is also great fun. There are huge bragging opportunities. I get the occasional sample sent to check on progress and display them prominently! Anyway, it is a perfectly good investment and, if you like whisky, good fun too. I have a barrel (hoping to turn it into bottles in a couple of years), a hogshead and share another hogshead with a friend. Several of my friends bought casks - one of them was the original investment adviser I spoke to. I now take a great interest in whisky and collect rare bottles as investments. As a barrel owner you get the chance to buy other unique bottlings which are good investments too. You must also visit the distillery. They are very friendly and give short tours with long tastings after. There is a great restaurant next door (an added bonus). My only other advice would be to go for one of the special casks rather than a bourbon refill. You seem to get a be smoother, darker whisky if it sits in a sherry or port cask, or better still Chateau Yquem if it is still available.

It certainly isn't a scam - certainly nothing like ostrich farming! Yes, it does raise cash for the distillery and helps their cashflow (remember that it takes a good few years from producing the first whisky to having bottles to sell so when they started up they needed some cash coming in to bridge that gap), but it gives us a unique opportunity too. Go for it. Your idea of keeping it for 20 years is good (but you need to have the distiller advise you on the best time to bottle it) as older whisky is worth much more. I would love to leave all mine for 40 years but, unfortunately, if I did that I would have been dead for 10 years! I need to drink mine sooner. But I would like to leave one cask to my children.

Hope this helps.

Myself and a few friends got involved in this @ Bruichladdich in 2011 .

Looking forward to 2021 !

[porca misèria]

Um ... whisky could be a fun investment. But it could also be quite the opposite. What if one of the kids binges on it and ends up dead or permanently damaged? Some people do daft things, and I wouldn't want to be handing them a weapon.