Coalition Take On Housing Benefit?

[Blue Nose Bear]

take it easy - IDS and Frank Field have barely started their assesment of benefits, and it is I'm afraid preferable (from a demand perspective) to gradually push plebs back into work than suddenly cut off their benefits and leave them in the streets

slowly slowly catchy monkey

house prices are very very toast...in 5 to 10 years

Far too bullish (as far as the timescales concerned )

40-50% CGT

Tax hikes all over the place

25% cut in Defence Spending - thats gotta mean BIG job cuts

Loads of BTL, 2nd Homes coming onto the market

tipping point in 5-10 weeks not years

Mind you could take 5-10 years to reach the ultimate bottom, but I think it will be reverse exponential, biggest drop in the next 12-18 months.

[Si1]

"IDS and FF have only just taken their positions" - True, but so has everyone else in Nick Clegg's government, and yet they have managed to say what the thrust of their policies are going to be. It will of course take time to implement. But so far nothing from these two.

"they don't even know the state of the nation's finances". - They know that the finances are really bad, and the cuts need to be huge. They also know that they need a system that encourages people to work. A few commitments by way of policy intention cant be that difficult, everyone else has managed it.

"never mind the parliamentary timetable over the coming year, or for that matter the state of the private sector or level of commitment for existing benefits claimants" - These two are experts, they would already have had a pretty good idea of the state of things. They wont learn much more by looking at the figures in detail for another 6 months. Best to state the thrust of what you are going to do as early as possible, so everyone knows what is coming and can react accordingly.

no no and no

never heard of Keynes?

the cuts need to be timely and appropriate. too big and too fast could be worse than too slow.

[Guest DestroyBrown]

I have a job, I rent a house but after a while I can't afford it anymore - Result - I'm urfed out

I have a job, I buy a house but after a while I can't afford it anymore - Result - govt steps in

why the difference?

Do renters not suffer from being turfed out?

[Guest DestroyBrown]

I would imagine that the govt should be looking to cutting everything in sight.

All benefits, all public sector expenditure.

The deficit is THAT large

[leicestersq]

no no and no

never heard of Keynes?

the cuts need to be timely and appropriate. too big and too fast could be worse than too slow.

Oh yes, I have heard of Keynes. I think of myself as a Keynesian.

But unless you sort out the benefits problem, Keynesian policies are useless. You have to make it more worthwhile to work than to claim benefits. Spending all that money does no one any good unless people who were once unemployed, go out to work.

And they wont go out to work if they are comfortable in their housing on benefits that give them a better return than the minimum wage.

This micro-economic facts, limits the ability of Keynesian macro-economic policy to work. Despite 3+ million unemployed, and far more on benefits counted elsewhere, the economy is far more supply restrained than you would realise. People have become used to claiming benefits, and it is a great wrench to get them to change. You can see how bad this is when you go out and meet huge numbers of Eastern Europeans doing minimum wage jobs. Are all our unemployed unable to find work when these people can? Fiscal Demand management wont change that, all it will do is wrack up more unpayable debts on the nations taxpayers until we default.

I would have liked to have seen some policy statements about this situation, but all we have had so far is a revamp of the existing labour nonsense.

Minimum wage jobs have to yield more earnings than benefits, or else I will judge the efforts of this government as a failure.

Keynesian macro economic management on a deformed and rigged jobs and benefits market is a recipe for a soviet style economic disaster.

[okaycuckoo]

I would imagine that the govt should be looking to cutting everything in sight.

All benefits, all public sector expenditure.

The deficit is THAT large

That's the impression Cameron gave in his little speech outside #10.

Last year there was certainly talk of reduction among local authorities, who calculate and pay housing benefit. I've been told by a rent officer that they base their calculations on figures supplied by local letting agents - nice! Cut that link and calculations may result in lower figures.

Here's Shelter on local housing allowance:

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/paying_for_a_home/housing_benefit_and_local_housing_allowance/what_is_local_housing_allowance#1

[grizzly bear]

I get the feeling that Clegg has taken over as PM. All the policies I see coming out of the new government are the left of labour pinky stuff that caused the liberals vote to collapse after the last debate when they realised that the liberals still had lots of looney policies.

But Clegg gets a coalition, and the Tories dont appear to have any policies of their own. Before the election we all thought that they had a hidden agenda that might get us out of the mess, but it appears that they didnt. Instead, we have Clegg with his spade, and Cameron is urging him to get on and dig us in deeper.

Housing Benefit is particularly rancid. It is a benefit that increases with inflation in housing, and the two are locked together in an upwards spiral. House prices go up, housing benefits go up. Then more people decide to quit work as housing only becomes affordable on benefits, which in turn pushes up housing costs and benefits even more. The strain on the pocket of the taxpayer grows bigger by the day.

What should be happening, is that working people should be getting first dibs on the housing, and everyone else gets whats left. That way we all have an incentive to work and be useful. But the cart is well and truly before the horse, and unless you command a large salary, benefits are now the only way to obtain housing in our crowded nation.

To sort this out, housing benefit needs to be cut or axed entirely. Cruel as it may seem, people need to be turfed out onto the street, reducing taxpayer sponsored demand for housing. Then our working people, now carrying a reduced burden of taxation, will be able to move into the vacated space. This is how it should be.

It seems though, that we dont have anyone with vision in Downing Street. Instead we have more of the same lefty get someone else to pay for it all rubbish, and housing benefit will continue to spiral out of control. I wont call the people who use this benefit 'feckless', as for many it is the best they can do in the situation they face, nothing wrong from their point of view in claiming it, I am sure I would do the same.

But as a nation we cant afford it. Sooner or later the bond market is going to spot housing inflation out of control again, and taxes being raised (lots of talk about cuts rather than taxes being used to cut the deficit, but all I heard were things that involve more spending and taxation) rather than cut. We will reach a point where the bond market causes interest rates to rise, making the interest on the national debt unpayable. At that point, we either default, or print more money. The latter would bring the demise of the pound in short order.

And just to ram home how our new PM Clegg is out of touch with reality, I heard him say that Pension rises are going to be linked to wage rises. I would like to know if that is post or pre-tax wages, and the wages of the private or public sector. When wages fall, will pensions fall, or will the amount we spend as a proportion of our nations income be ratcheted up in that event with a freezing of pensions? State Pensions too, have to be cut. This is an unpleasant truth, but we cant afford them.

If we get a meltdown as a result of the Clegg largesse, pensioners wont be getting a pension that can buy them spit.

I have already written to the new housing minister, I suggest you all do to. I basically said that I didn't think that housing benefit should under any circumstances be more than £1,400 a month EVER because that was roughly what someone earning £50k could afford to spend on rent and someone earnign this amount wasn't entitled to any benefits so why should someone on housing benefit be able to afford a better house?

YOU should all write NOW as well, use different arguements though!

[OnionTerror]

I don't understand how this could possibly work? From my understanding, if pleb works at Lidl and leaves after two weeks he has voluntarily left and is therefore no longer entitled to beneift. I thought this was the system that was in place at the moment?

At the moment, those under 25 go on to New Deal (after 6 months), which involves going on "work experience" for between 13 to 26 weeks..for those over 25, they do 13 weeks, and thats after 18 months.. http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/employment/government_employment_schemes.htm..

For me, such a scheme could possibly be seen as useful, but if its for months at a time, I see it as a form of slavery...it would be quite handy with all those public sector jobs that will be removed in the coming months & years. Workfare schemes are fair enough when we had very low employment figures, but with 2.5 million ppl chasing 500,000 vacancies, it just doesn't add up in the current climate.

[guitarman001]

Very interesting comments all round. I do find myself agreeing with leicestersq - I don't live in the nicest of areas and the amount of useless dole-ites and girls who can open their legs who get free housing is ridiculous - this is no time for pussyfooting, we need to get it sorted.

Is it possible that the only way to get housing now is to get it on benefits? This may not be a long term solution but it is a dire situation. Engineering grad friend of mine is looking for a job just now but is asking if it is going to be worth it - old friend he knows got knocked up and is living scott free in a £155k flat in a new development - something he will likely never be able to afford.

My siblings have been unemployed for years - it is very easy to get benefits - just say you're looking for work - they just hand them out! Sister is doing slave labour (translation: unpaid work) for one of these 'work schemes'. 4 days a week working for NHS. After it all I fully expect her to laze around here the rest of her life. I look at them and think their is no hope - complete lack of understanding of the real world, no work ethic etc. Yet I have to live with it every day, as despite the fact that I get a decent salary, I cannot afford places that even the junkies who attended school with me are now residing in on the wave of benefits.

[OnionTerror]

Very interesting comments all round. I do find myself agreeing with leicestersq - I don't live in the nicest of areas and the amount of useless dole-ites and girls who can open their legs who get free housing is ridiculous - this is no time for pussyfooting, we need to get it sorted.

Is it possible that the only way to get housing now is to get it on benefits? This may not be a long term solution but it is a dire situation. Engineering grad friend of mine is looking for a job just now but is asking if it is going to be worth it - old friend he knows got knocked up and is living scott free in a £155k flat in a new development - something he will likely never be able to afford.

My siblings have been unemployed for years - it is very easy to get benefits - just say you're looking for work - they just hand them out! Sister is doing slave labour (translation: unpaid work) for one of these 'work schemes'. 4 days a week working for NHS. After it all I fully expect her to laze around here the rest of her life. I look at them and think their is no hope - complete lack of understanding of the real world, no work ethic etc. Yet I have to live with it every day, as despite the fact that I get a decent salary, I cannot afford places that even the junkies who attended school with me are now residing in on the wave of benefits.

I agree that something should be done between those who know the current systems nooks & crannies, and know precisely how to exploit it, and those who who want to work, but just cannot find a job because of the climate... Society, as well as the system just lumps all these ppl together, and calls them "workshy".. The current system is not fit for purpose, as it cannot deal with the influx of the professional classes having to sign on (perhaps for the first time), and it doesn't punish those who exploit it to the maximum. A "new" unemployment service should be able to tailor support for each person, rather than lumping everyone on to the latest scheme (such as New Deal).

Edited May 21, 2010 by zagreb78

[StringerBell]

Very interesting comments all round. I do find myself agreeing with leicestersq - I don't live in the nicest of areas and the amount of useless dole-ites and girls who can open their legs who get free housing is ridiculous - this is no time for pussyfooting, we need to get it sorted.

From the wording of your post you sound like one of the many clueless, Mail reading, unthinking right wing ******wits that unfortunately haunt this site. But perhaps lurking behind your stupidity is a point to be made about social housing in the UK.

There should be a change in the allocation of social housing to ensure that the great majority is allocated to people in employment. To encourage people into work it's only incentives that do the job, despite your right wing fantasies about starving the unemployed while they live on the streets.

I take the fact that you're posting on this sute as meaning that you'd like to be able afford somewhere half decent to live without borrowing up to ten times your income.

Why the ****** don't you understand that the only way that this will ever be achieved is by a massive programme of building housing to be let at affordable rents with security of tenure.

[Laughing Gnome]

I don't understand how this could possibly work? From my understanding, if pleb works at Lidl and leaves after two weeks he has voluntarily left and is therefore no longer entitled to beneift. I thought this was the system that was in place at the moment?

Easy. Someone is not allowing the facts to get in the way of a good argument.

[Laughing Gnome]

You can see how bad this is when you go out and meet huge numbers of Eastern Europeans doing minimum wage jobs. Are all our unemployed unable to find work when these people can?

Minimum wage jobs have to yield more earnings than benefits, or else I will judge the efforts of this government as a failure.

Actually, you can still get housing benefit if you are on the minimum wage.

It is not actually possible to support a family on the minimum wage, and many Eastern Europeans do. I know, I work with them.

Housing Benefit is a massive teat at which the landlord class suckle. The answer is an expansion of council housing and the

general reduction of rents that would follow.

[guitarman001]

From the wording of your post you sound like one of the many clueless, Mail reading, unthinking right wing ******wits that unfortunately haunt this site. But perhaps lurking behind your stupidity is a point to be made about social housing in the UK.

Or maybe you're just a complete tw@t. Take your 60 posts and bugger off, else get some manners. I've been around longer than you, probably contribute more to the economy, and have seen first hand the sort of Daily Mail cr@p everybody complains of - your solution would help but it wouldn't go all the way. Like I said, get some manners, and learn to apologise. Sorry, are you 12 years old?

Edited May 21, 2010 by guitarman001

[okaycuckoo]

From the wording of your post you sound like one of the many clueless, Mail reading, unthinking right wing ******wits that unfortunately haunt this site. But perhaps lurking behind your stupidity is a point to be made about social housing in the UK.

His post was very good. But he's right wing, therefore he must be a fascist.

Your problem may be that you are a net beneficiary of the system and are getting a bit spooked that the free ride is coming to an end.

[CrashConnoisseur]

Workfare schemes are fair enough when we had very low employment figures, but with 2.5 million ppl chasing 500,000 vacancies, it just doesn't add up in the current climate.

It adds up for Emma Harrison.

[Rozza]

From the wording of your post you sound like one of the many clueless, Mail reading, unthinking right wing ******wits that unfortunately haunt this site. But perhaps lurking behind your stupidity is a point to be made about social housing in the UK.

There should be a change in the allocation of social housing to ensure that the great majority is allocated to people in employment. To encourage people into work it's only incentives that do the job, despite your right wing fantasies about starving the unemployed while they live on the streets.

I take the fact that you're posting on this sute as meaning that you'd like to be able afford somewhere half decent to live without borrowing up to ten times your income.

Why the ****** don't you understand that the only way that this will ever be achieved is by a massive programme of building housing to be let at affordable rents with security of tenure.

WRONG!

There is already a lot of wasted housing in this country, a ton of it is empty and a ton more is handed out to people wo contribute nothing, then you have the giant amount of property being paid for by the government at 6% while the mortgage is next to nothing.

Deal with these situations, correct prices.. a load of renters will buy a house as they will be able to and the whole chain moves on.

If someone has no job, 2 kids and sits on their bum all day they should be given a 2 bed flat no more. people want better then go work for it.