M P Diane Abbott Bids For Labour's Leadership

[miko]

Exactly.

Many posts in this very thread explain why she has that chip on her shoulder, and why she may over-react sometimes, for fear (real or imaginary) of racism. After all, since most racism is covert, it is natural that people on the receiving end may look a little paranoid - unsure of things, suspicious, worried.

Yes Covert the word i used in post 20 about her ,and then again in post 48 about racism towards white people , she is a covert racist herself.

[Blod]

Has she been nominated by Mandelson and Campbell? She’s got plenty of TV experience and would be easily controlled as she’s as a proven record on being manipulated. They’d have no trouble controlling her and must like her socio demographic position as has already been mentioned.

[ZeroSumGame]

I like her too. She speaks her mind.

On BBC's "This Week" she surprised me many times for her direct criticisms of Gordon Brown. She has balls - much more than balls-less Balls.

Indeed.

"A short guide to hypocrisy"

http://www.newstatesman.com/200311030009

[porca misèria]

Has she just snookered Harfwit?

Harfwit ruled herself out, no doubt confidently expecting to be begged to stand and fly the flag for wimmin. Who's going to beg her to stand against Abbott, whose public image includes a strong - if a little less strident and nasty - feminism.

[Guest AuntJess]

oh how democracy would flourish....think before you leap....one sided politics produce people like thatcher....not good for many...evil for the few..

I sometimes wonder where you got your highly jaundiced ideas about Thatcher. True she wasn't perfect; true she made mistakes; true I did not like everything she did, but this obsession by a section of society - known as Labour voters, lasting decades - says more about their mental programming - by parents or sig. others, or about their needing to be with the 'in crowd' - 'cos hating Thatcher is 'cool'.

And as we know it couldn't have owt to do with her being female. If she'd been black there would have been cries of 'racism' from the PC brigade, surprisingly silent on issues of misogyny.

I'fd like to hear more balanced comments about politicians, especially those who 'reigned' when many on here were way, way below voting age - if around on this planet at all. when they came to power.

As for one-sided politics: As long as politicians rewrite the rules as suits, no one is safe. How else do we end up with a bumbling chap with a 'saviour' mission, or a first secretary of state who seemed to be pulling the strings of a range of government 'puppets', and he already discredited as a public servant?

Before you criticise other party's politicians, acknowledge and bang on about the menaces in your own.

If you don't remember - weren't around then - I can tell you the names of a few.

[1929crash]

I sometimes wonder where you got your highly jaundiced ideas about Hitler. True he wasn't perfect; true he made mistakes; true I did not like everything he did, but this obsession by a section of society - known as liberals, lasting decades - says more about their mental programming - by parents or sig. others, or about their needing to be with the 'in crowd' - 'cos hating Hitler is 'cool'.

And as we know it couldn't have owt to do with him being German. If he'd been black there would have been cries of 'racism' from the PC brigade, surprisingly silent on issues of germanaphobia.

I'fd like to hear more balanced comments about politicians, especially those who 'reigned' when many on here were way, way below voting age - if around on this planet at all. when they came to power.

As for one-sided politics: As long as politicians rewrite the rules as suits, no one is safe. How else do we end up with a bumbling chap with a 'saviour' mission, or a first secretary of state who seemed to be pulling the strings of a range of government 'puppets', and he already discredited as a public servant?

Before you criticise other party's politicians, acknowledge and bang on about the menaces in your own.

If you don't remember - weren't around then - I can tell you the names of a few.

[Uriah Heap]

I sometimes wonder where you got your highly jaundiced ideas about Thatcher. True she wasn't perfect; true she made mistakes; true I did not like everything she did, but this obsession by a section of society - known as Labour voters, lasting decades - says more about their mental programming - by parents or sig. others, or about their needing to be with the 'in crowd' - 'cos hating Thatcher is 'cool'.

And as we know it couldn't have owt to do with her being female. If she'd been black there would have been cries of 'racism' from the PC brigade, surprisingly silent on issues of misogyny.

I'fd like to hear more balanced comments about politicians, especially those who 'reigned' when many on here were way, way below voting age - if around on this planet at all. when they came to power.

As for one-sided politics: As long as politicians rewrite the rules as suits, no one is safe. How else do we end up with a bumbling chap with a 'saviour' mission, or a first secretary of state who seemed to be pulling the strings of a range of government 'puppets', and he already discredited as a public servant?

Before you criticise other party's politicians, acknowledge and bang on about the menaces in your own.

If you don't remember - weren't around then - I can tell you the names of a few.

Well if you are a follower of Epictetus, you are probably stoic enough to find the inner strength to cope with Thatcherism. For those of us who don't have a philosophical outlook that allows us to cope with great suffering, I suggest that our aversion to her is grounded in very real experience. I have just celebrated my fiftieth birthday so I remember the Thatcher years very well.

The interesting thing about the position that Cameron finds himself in is that he really does have the chance to break with the past. A really liberal Tory administration could get back the centre ground. An awful lot of people will find this very very attractive, if he can pull it off. It really would give the Labour Party a huge challenge.

Even if Thatcher is being unfairly demonised, I think that there is a huge dividend for the Tories if they can put her memory behind them. And a coalition with the Libs gives them a huge opportunity to do just that.

[porca misèria]

Even if Thatcher is being unfairly demonised, I think that there is a huge dividend for the Tories if they can put her memory behind them. And a coalition with the Libs gives them a huge opportunity to do just that.

The defining feature of Thatcher's time was the need to dig the country out from deep economic doo-doo.

If you think the current coalition can do that without incurring the deep hatred of exactly the same people who hate Thatcher, then you're looking for ever more money printing, nationalisation of failing businesses, zero interest, and 6% mortgage support for hard-working families.

[Uriah Heap]

The defining feature of Thatcher's time was the need to dig the country out from deep economic doo-doo.

If you think the current coalition can do that without incurring the deep hatred of exactly the same people who hate Thatcher, then you're looking for ever more money printing, nationalisation of failing businesses, zero interest, and 6% mortgage support for hard-working families.

The country wasn't in deep economic doo-doo until Thatcher got her hands on it.

I am not convinced that the current government necessarily has to be unpopular just because times are tough. If they seem to be doing whatever they can to help the situation it could even work to their advantage. Voters aren't mindless zombies and can grasp the realities.

As I said earlier, potentially a great opportunity for Clegg and Cameron, particularly Cameron.

[porca misèria]

The country wasn't in deep economic doo-doo until Thatcher got her hands on it.

Oooh, that's almost sig-worthy.

Crisis, what crisis? IMF bailout? Winter of discontent?

I am not convinced that the current government necessarily has to be unpopular just because times are tough. If they seem to be doing whatever they can to help the situation it could even work to their advantage. Voters aren't mindless zombies and can grasp the realities.

That's what remains to be seen. It's true the mindless zombies of 1970s socialism are largely gone (though ghosts live on: since this is HPC, think get-pregnant-to-get-housed for an example). But Thatcher's election and re-election shows they were on the way out even then, and it was the everyone-hates-Thatcher meeja campaigns that were out of touch with the times. And look what happened when the tories mentioned austerity a few months back ... none of the parties campaigned for austerity, so noone has a mandate for it

As I said earlier, potentially a great opportunity for Clegg and Cameron, particularly Cameron.

Maybe. But it'll be tough for them, and they've got additional problems around sustainable food and energy now.

[I_Claudius]

I'm amazed I have to point this out but you really don't have to be a braindead socialist zombie to not have fond memories of Maggie.

[1929crash]

When the bitch kicks the bucket, there are plans for some big parties.

Sign up here:

http://thewitchisdeadparty.ning.com/

toomtabard replied to Emma 'Kawaii' FitzGerald's discussion 'Coal not Dole " ' heard she's got dementia. I hope she lives to 120, with a minimum wage carer that used to be a miner. Hell I'd even give up my own job for that one ;-))) I think you can get the cole not dole T shirts on ebay (oh the irony) and they're usually av…"

[winkie]

Wasn't she the one who said state schools were good for everybody, then sent her kids to private school.....typical.

[SHERWICK]

Well if you are a follower of Epictetus, you are probably stoic enough to find the inner strength to cope with Thatcherism. For those of us who don't have a philosophical outlook that allows us to cope with great suffering, I suggest that our aversion to her is grounded in very real experience. I have just celebrated my fiftieth birthday so I remember the Thatcher years very well.

The interesting thing about the position that Cameron finds himself in is that he really does have the chance to break with the past. A really liberal Tory administration could get back the centre ground. An awful lot of people will find this very very attractive, if he can pull it off. It really would give the Labour Party a huge challenge.

Even if Thatcher is being unfairly demonised, I think that there is a huge dividend for the Tories if they can put her memory behind them. And a coalition with the Libs gives them a huge opportunity to do just that.

Yep, Labour are finished. They are dead. They just don't know it yet.

[Guest AuntJess]

Wasn't she the one who said state schools were good for everybody, then sent her kids to private school.....typical.

If she did she was not alone, as politicians from all parties proclaim the joys of state schools, whilst sending their off to puiblic.

I was fairly disgusted with the Tory idea of comprehensive schooling, too, and the demise of grammar schools. My post was NOT about flying the flag for the tories of yesteryear - tho' some folk on here will choose to see it as that - but about being heartily sick about the demonisation of just one politician, and boring endlessly on about her, decades later.The justification is that she set stuff in motion and was the forerunner of ever political scam going. Yeah, right.

We have surely enough blame-worthy politicians who have done us the dirty..NOW without having to trawl back in time.

I could be forgiven for thinking that those who only ever vote for one party, irrespective of the latter's considerable 'crimes', feel the need to sway the topic back onto a favourite scapegoat.

[Cicero]

Has she been nominated by Mandelson and Campbell? She's got plenty of TV experience and would be easily controlled as she's as a proven record on being manipulated. They'd have no trouble controlling her and must like her socio demographic position as has already been mentioned.

Labour and the Conservatives have made steps to woo the ethnic minorities. Warsi became a baroness, and was appointed to the Cabinet, ultimately to complete the Conservative 'makeover' i.e. of no longer being the stereotypical right wing, all white middle class party. You will no doubt recall that Warsi attired herself with the Pakistani Salwar for the Cabinet photoshoot. That was deliberate; a message of inclusion specifically to the Asian muslim population, and more generally to all the disparate ethnic populations that constitute modern Britain.

The impact of this 'makeover' will not be lost on Labour. I'll wager that Abbott shall achieve a position within the shadow cabinet. Whether such political elevation is truly meritorious, is an entirely different question. Having said that, Abbott seems reasonably intelligent and does not have the baggage of corruption to bring to the table.

[I_Claudius]

Labour and the Conservatives have made steps to woo the ethnic minorities. Warsi became a baroness, and was appointed to the Cabinet, ultimately to complete the Conservative 'makeover' i.e. of no longer being the stereotypical right wing, all white middle class party. You will no doubt recall that Warsi attired herself with the Pakistani Salwar for the Cabinet photoshoot. That was deliberate; a message of inclusion specifically to the Asian muslim population, and more generally to all the disparate ethnic populations that constitute modern Britain.

The impact of this 'makeover' will not be lost on Labour. I'll wager that Abbott shall achieve a position within the shadow cabinet. Whether such political elevation is truly meritorious, is an entirely different question. Having said that, Abbott seems reasonably intelligent and does not have the baggage of corruption to bring to the table.

At least she was elected, which can't be said for Ms Warsi.

[Cicero]

At least she was elected, which can't be said for Ms Warsi.

Quite. She was defeated in her attempt to be elected as the honourable member for Dewsbury. Cameron ennobled her to ensure her political elevation.

[Guest AuntJess]

The country wasn't in deep economic doo-doo until Thatcher got her hands on it.

Really? Then how come when Nulab. came into power we owed only 6 billion - under a tory govt - and we now owe 160+ billion after 13 years of NL profligacy?

Also what did Wilson and Callaghan do between them that was so all-fired wonderful? SHE only got in 'cos they were a couple of bunglers.

[Cogs]

Really? Then how come when Nulab. came into power we owed only 6 billion - under a tory govt -  and we now owe 160+ billion after 13 years of NL profligacy?

Also what did Wilson and Callaghan do between them  that was so all-fired wonderful? SHE only got in 'cos they were a couple of bunglers.

But it wasn't after 13 years of profligacy.

[1929crash]

Really? Then how come when Nulab. came into power we owed only 6 billion - under a tory govt - and we now owe 160+ billion after 13 years of NL profligacy?

You are confusing the National Debt with the Budget Deficit!

[Uriah Heap]

Yep, Labour are finished. They are dead. They just don't know it yet.

Well they may be finished. Political parties don't have a right to exist. If they don't serve any function then they disappear. The Communist Party is long gone now. I think Labour's position is more precarious now than at any time in its history.

But politics is never that predictable. The Tories have deep roots and solid support so it is hard to imagine them no longer being on the scene. But consider this scenario.

The anti-Europeans get fed up with the Lib Dems, and split off from the Tories. The Lib Dems pull out of the coalition. In the following election UKIP, Eurosceptic Tories and official Tories all slug it out against the Lib Dems running as 'the government' while Labour fights the election as 'the opposition'. So when the counting is finished in 2015 the Lib Dems are the biggest party with Labour in opposition. The Tories are nowhere.

Not very likely maybe, but not totally impossible. You could have that result with the 2010 share of the vote so long as you split the Tory vote into three.

[Uriah Heap]

Oooh, that's almost sig-worthy.

Crisis, what crisis? IMF bailout? Winter of discontent?

I remember it all. And I remember well that the tabloid headlines and party election posters were a long way from reality. Sure there were problems but nothing compared to what came afterwards.

Thatcher is detested with good reason by many people who are not remotely socialists.

[Ologhai Jones]

I remember it all. And I remember well that the tabloid headlines and party election posters were a long way from reality. Sure there were problems but nothing compared to what came afterwards.

Thatcher is detested with good reason by many people who are not remotely socialists.

Evidence, if ever I saw it, for the Many Worlds Interpretation...

[Wuluf]

And then some posters wonders why she has a chip on her shoulder...

Well at least she is *****..

IMHO that should count for something...

p.s. First Obama, then the Na'vi and now this....