Home Reports Stay In Scotland

[dipstick]

Just in case anybody didn't know, although the Home Report was introduced at the same time as the HIPS in England and Wales, it's not going to disappear in Scotland. Seems to me like the Scottish Government are clearly happy to put their sellers and housing market at a disadvantage in times of forthcoming competitive need. Still, the surveyors will be fine. £750 a throw in my neck of the woods.

'Scuse my sarcasm, I'm a bit on the livid side.

[AThirdWay]

Just in case anybody didn't know, although the Home Report was introduced at the same time as the HIPS in England and Wales, it's not going to disappear in Scotland. Seems to me like the Scottish Government are clearly happy to put their sellers and housing market at a disadvantage in times of forthcoming competitive need. Still, the surveyors will be fine. £750 a throw in my neck of the woods.

'Scuse my sarcasm, I'm a bit on the livid side.

Hmm, £340 up front on the East coast for a £100k property. I won't advertise, but let's just say that the company are used to dealing with sheep.....

As a buyer, I've found them pretty useful, but I'm sure when I come to sell that I'll be cursing the extra expense. If lenders were to accept the valuation as the basis for their LTV calculations, then I'd be for them. Until then, I'm in 2 minds.

[dipstick]

I couldn't use them.

Basically the Scottish law says that the surveyor 'must have local knowledge.' So in the more remote areas where there are only two or three surveyors there is no competition - hence, you get to pay over £700 for a 60k property instead of the £350 you would in Edinburgh.

Good innit?

Heaven only knows why some of the larger companies haven't sent their own people to these locations to get 'local knowledge' and corner the markets - they could knock £200 off and still be way ahead.

[pyracantha]

Just in case anybody didn't know, although the Home Report was introduced at the same time as the HIPS in England and Wales, it's not going to disappear in Scotland. Seems to me like the Scottish Government are clearly happy to put their sellers and housing market at a disadvantage in times of forthcoming competitive need. Still, the surveyors will be fine. £750 a throw in my neck of the woods.

'Scuse my sarcasm, I'm a bit on the livid side.

£750!?

http://www.nethouseprices.com/index.php?con=HIP_Home

£222 + VAT

I can't see the benefit of getting rid of HIPS. One survey paid for by the seller or multiple surveys paid for by buyers. Overall the costs are less and as most are buyers and sellers then we all save money. As a potential buyer, I have found the HIPS to a very useful source of information - not least the valuation.

Please explain how if everyone has to have a HIP, is anyone at a disadvantage. The housing market in Scotland is not in competition with the market south of the border so it doesn't matter what legislation they have.

[WageslaveX14]

£750!?

http://www.nethouseprices.com/index.php?con=HIP_Home

£222 + VAT

I can't see the benefit of getting rid of HIPS. One survey paid for by the seller or multiple surveys paid for by buyers. Overall the costs are less and as most are buyers and sellers then we all save money. As a potential buyer, I have found the HIPS to a very useful source of information - not least the valuation.

Please explain how if everyone has to have a HIP, is anyone at a disadvantage. The housing market in Scotland is not in competition with the market south of the border so it doesn't matter what legislation they have.

I agree entirely. It makes sense for 1 set of surveys to be done, and by the person who will inevitably be involved in the transaction. If there are five bidders for a house, under the old system there will be at least 4 wasted surveys. If HIPS solve this, why are they so controversial?

OK, the energy efficiency stuff is pretty useless, and the length of time for which the survey is valid is also (I understand) a bit on the short side, but if the surveyor is liable to be sued by a purchaser, even though the survey was paid for by the seller, people should feel OK relying on the survey.

Edited May 19, 2010 by WageslaveX14

[dipstick]

Like I said, Pyracantha, I can't use them because they don't have local knowledge.

If you don't believe the housing market in Scotland is in competition with the English market then I don't know where you've been the last 8 years! It's been the housing boom in England that's pushed up prices here to the highest they've ever been. If England now deregulates but Scotland leaves theirs in place then it leaves the Scottish market at a big disadvantage because their prices won't fall.

Trouble is, the Scots won't notice until it happens!

To be honest I couldn't see the benefit of the HIPs - It didn't contain a survey to call as such and banks wouldn't recognise it for lending purposes, hence a 'proper' survey had to be done.

Here in Scotland we have the mandatory Home Condition thingy, which is supposed to be a survey that is recognised by lenders. However they still won't take them into consideration for lending purposes unless they have been done by one of their listed surveyors.

Even then, I spoke to somebody who had a Home Report done and she said that at the bottom it said the surveyor was not responsible for the contents! Don't know how true this is and I will ask her for a looksie when I see her, but what the heck is that all about - not worth the paper it's written on.

And what about all the properties in Scotland that don't require a mortgage - a lot of them don't. Plenty of buyers have sold at English prices and bought here mortgage free. They end up with a survey prepared by one of the buyers choice rather than their own?

[dipstick]

I agree entirely. It makes sense for 1 set of surveys to be done, and by the person who will inevitably be involved in the transaction. If there are five bidders for a house, under the old system there will be at least 4 wasted surveys. If HIPS solve this, why are they so controversial?

OK, the energy efficiency stuff is pretty useless, and the length of time for which the survey is valid is also (I understand) a bit on the short side, but if the surveyor is liable to be sued by a purchaser, even though the survey was paid for by the seller, people should feel OK relying on the survey.

Just to reiterate; they didn't really contain a survey, that's why, in England you could get them so cheaply.

If you wanted to rely on the contents of the HIPs to support any future problems then you may as well go find a wind to pee into.

The Scottish one does contain a survey but that a) possibly has a disclaimer in it, and wasn't recognised by many lenders depending on who the surveyor was.

The value - not much in my book.

[dipstick]

It annoys me intensely that they have their own legal system.

What if every region of similar size had different legal systems.

The whole thing is ridiculous.

What annoys me is that they brought it in at the same time as the HIPs,. as if they were both under the same legislative umbrella so to speak and now the HIPs is going they are cutting loose.

I'm just sick to death of the rich getting richer on the back of this bluddy terrible boom!!!!!

[dipstick]

... and don't forget that in Scotland you could already 'buy into' a survey.

That's to say, if somebody has a survey done on a property and doesn't purchase, you can approach the surveyor and buy that same survey off them for a reduced price. I think they're valid for six months.

I would think that at the height of the boom many surveyors did very nicely out of that one - dozens of buyers chasing each property and each one wanting a survey.

Something the English market should really consider because under normal conditions it works out to the benefit of both buyer and seller.

[dipstick]

Having a 'separate' legal system does nothing for ordinary Scots apart from increasing costs for people and lining the pockets of the Scottish legal elite or 'mafia'.

It is essentially a closed shop and increases the costs of doing business there.

I actually used the term closed shop when I was speaking about this to somebody yesterday.

I agree with you and don't think it benefits the Scots on the whole.

[Scunnered]

Having a 'separate' legal system does nothing for ordinary Scots apart from increasing costs for people and lining the pockets of the Scottish legal elite or 'mafia'.

I thought it was England that had the separate legal system.

[dipstick]

... depends which day it is. (but I think you'll find that the Scottish Government was formed after the English one - at least this time round;-))

And another thing, when it comes to the disclaimer issue.

I honestly haven't seen one so don't know what it says if anything at all, but I know the woman who had one done was ranting about it.

Thing is, if the contract for preparation is between the seller and the surveyor and that document is intended to be given away to prospective purchasers, then there isn't a legally binding contract between the surveyor and the eventual buyer because they have neither instructed nor paid for, the document - is there?

Edited May 19, 2010 by dipstick

[Scunnered]

... depends which day it is. (but I think you'll find that the Scottish Government was formed after the English one - at least this time round;-))

I'm not wanting to start some big debate about the relative merits of the legal systems in Scotland and England, but I don't quite understand what you mean here. Are you saying that there was some change in the status of the Scottish legal system when the devolved administration came into being a few years ago?

[Byron]

My daughter put in an offer on a house on the strength of a HIP.

Thankfully the building society surveyor found that the floors had sunk 2 to 3 inches and as the area has old uncharted coal mines, he said that he could not put a value on the house.

HIPs seem a waste of time

[dipstick]

"The Scottish Government are responsible for Home Reports as this is a devolved matter."

A direct quote - not from me but the powers that be.

... and since the Scottish Government pass laws via the Scottish Legal system, then yes, I suppose I am saying they are connected.

[Scunnered]

"The Scottish Government are responsible for Home Reports as this is a devolved matter."

A direct quote - not from me but the powers that be.

... and since the Scottish Government pass laws via the Scottish Legal system, then yes, I suppose I am saying they are connected.

Ah, I see. I think I misunderstood earlier.

[dipstick]

Ah, I see. I think I misunderstood earlier.

No problem, happy to clarify.

[dipstick]

My daughter put in an offer on a house on the strength of a HIP.

Thankfully the building society surveyor found that the floors had sunk 2 to 3 inches and as the area has old uncharted coal mines, he said that he could not put a value on the house.

HIPs seem a waste of time

Okay, so I know the English ones are going, but somebody had to pay for that. Even worse, somebody might have purchased on the strength of it.

Worst idea ever.

[pyracantha]

If you don't believe the housing market in Scotland is in competition with the English market then I don't know where you've been the last 8 years! It's been the housing boom in England that's pushed up prices here to the highest they've ever been. If England now deregulates but Scotland leaves theirs in place then it leaves the Scottish market at a big disadvantage because their prices won't fall.

Last 8 years (and the rest) - in and around Glasgow. I am still struggling with understanding your comment about how the English market has pushed up prices in Scotland. Apart from the odd retiring London Yachty moving up to Tighnabruaich, most people don't choose to move from England to Scotland as houses are cheaper.

Why is it England's fault? We are perfectly able to have our own housing bubble without southern assistance.

Keeping HR's is not going to maintain Scottish prices, any more than disbanding the English HIPS system is going to be the cause of English prices dropping. There are far bigger forces at play than this: you know, like the whole knackered economy thing...

Edited May 19, 2010 by pyracantha

[pyracantha]

My daughter put in an offer on a house on the strength of a HIP.

Thankfully the building society surveyor found that the floors had sunk 2 to 3 inches and as the area has old uncharted coal mines, he said that he could not put a value on the house.

HIPs seem a waste of time

A bad individual report does not mean the system itself is at fault. The "I bought a tins of beans from Tesco's that was out of date, we must close Tesco's" argument does not work.

With surveyors legally accountable for bad reporting, the number of bad surveys would drop. We accept MOT's as independent, why not the equivalent with houses? I am not saying the current system is good (it clearly could do with improvements), merely that it is better than what we had before.

[dipstick]

Last 8 years (and the rest) - in and around Glasgow. I am still struggling with understanding your comment about how the English market has pushed up prices in Scotland. Apart from the odd retiring London Yachty moving up to Tighnabruaich, most people don't choose to move from England to Scotland as houses are cheaper.

Why is it England's fault? We are perfectly able to have our own housing bubble without southern assistance.

Keeping HR's is not going to maintain Scottish prices, any more than disbanding the English HIPS system is going to be the cause of English prices dropping. There are far bigger forces at play than this: you know, like the whole knackered economy thing...

Sorry, am I missing a trick here?

The English haven't moved to Scotland.

Which is cheaper, England or Scotland.

Did you not know that there has been a huge influx of English to Scotland. Did you not know that in large parts of the Highlands and Islands the English now outnumber the Scottish?

Or maybe I've got it wrong. Maybe I'm not here at all and the people from England who moved in a few doors up aren't really English and neither is the woman next door to them who moved in a month or so ago.

In fact, maybe my next door neighbours on both sides didn't do it. Neither did the person next to them, or next to them, then Scotttish, then English, then English, then English, then Scottish, then English.

Of course the blasted housing boom pushed up prices in Scotland. Sell a semi in Surrey buy a detached up here. And if you're lucky wipe out your mortgage in the bargain

Keeping HRs won't maintain the Scottish prices for ever, but it will for a while, long enough for the English prices to drop (CGT going, HIPs going) and then the Scottish are going to be well and truly stuck.

[dipstick]

A bad individual report does not mean the system itself is at fault. The "I bought a tins of beans from Tesco's that was out of date, we must close Tesco's" argument does not work.

With surveyors legally accountable for bad reporting, the number of bad surveys would drop. We accept MOT's as independent, why not the equivalent with houses? I am not saying the current system is good (it clearly could do with improvements), merely that it is better than what we had before.

They aren't legally accountable because the surveys weren't even acceptable to get mortgages on. Who would they be legally accountable to? The buyer who didn't have to pay for it and had to get another survey done to get a mortgage? Nope. The seller, who just has to pay and then hand it out to somebody else? What are they going to sue for, the fact that they didn't pick up on problems - which would make their home worth less - I don't think so.

What value were they exactly?

[pyracantha]

Did you not know that there has been a huge influx of English to Scotland. Did you not know that in large parts of the Highlands and Islands the English now outnumber the Scottish?

Keeping HRs won't maintain the Scottish prices for ever, but it will for a while, long enough for the English prices to drop (CGT going, HIPs going) and then the Scottish are going to be well and truly stuck.

Southern settlers - anecdotal. Facts please. This is starting to turn into a "I hate the English" rant.

You still haven't explained the mechanism by which you think HR's will maintain prices in Scotland.

[Byron]

A bad individual report does not mean the system itself is at fault. The "I bought a tins of beans from Tesco's that was out of date, we must close Tesco's" argument does not work.

With surveyors legally accountable for bad reporting, the number of bad surveys would drop. We accept MOT's as independent, why not the equivalent with houses? I am not saying the current system is good (it clearly could do with improvements), merely that it is better than what we had before.

My point is that HIPs are useless. It doesn't matter what the energy efficiency etc. etc. says if the house is unmortgable and maybe uninsurable. This particular HIP made no mention of the structural defect. I know that it sold at auction to a cash buyer, I also know that they did not have a survey. They will belatedly find that they have a pig in a poke just because they relied on the HIP.

[pyracantha]

They aren't legally accountable because the surveys weren't even acceptable to get mortgages on. Who would they be legally accountable to? The buyer who didn't have to pay for it and had to get another survey done to get a mortgage? Nope. The seller, who just has to pay and then hand it out to somebody else? What are they going to sue for, the fact that they didn't pick up on problems - which would make their home worth less - I don't think so.

What value were they exactly?

I was suggesting HR surveyors should be legally accountable to the courts. There's this thing called professional indemnity insurance. I have it, surveyors should too.

A survey could form part of the "property" that is purchased. If the survey has been lacking, incorrect or otherwise cause loss to the buyer, the buyer should be able to seek damages from the surveyor. Perhaps the sale of goods act could be extended to cover this. And yes the HR survey should be acceptable to lending bodies.